Neil Patel

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Now on his third startup, Yannis Niebelschuetz has already raised tens of millions of dollars to scale his global mission of making coaching more accessible for entrepreneurs and their employees. His venture, CoachHub, has acquired funding from top-tier investors like Partech or Softbank Vision fund.

In this episode, you will learn:

  • Perseverance and grinding it out to make your startup work
  • The power and value of coaching as a founder
  • Founder dynamics
  • How to launch in new international markets
  • The need to focus

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    About Yannis Niebelschuetz:

    Yannis Niebelschuetz is the managing director of sales and marketing at CoachHub. Prior to joining CoachHub, Yannis worked as a sales manager at LinkedIn, where they were responsible for leading LinkedIn’s LSS Business in the DACH region and Scandinavia. While at LinkedIn, Yannis rebuilt the complete sales teams for both regions and exceeded ambitious yearly targets.

    Before LinkedIn, Yannis was the country manager for Germany at Ingager GmbH, Scandinavia’s leading Facebook marketing agency. At Ingager, Yannis successfully developed and executed a go-to-market strategy for the German market, acquiring large customers such as Burda, Axel Springer, Holtzbrinck, and Gruner+Jahr.

    Yannis is skilled in digital sales and marketing, team management, and go-to-market strategies. Yannis has a proven track record of successfully growing businesses in competitive markets.

    Yannis Niebelschuetz has a Diploma in Economics from the Hochschule für Technik und Wirtschaft Berlin and a semester abroad in economics from IAE Montpellier.

    Yannis is certified in Solution Selling, Advertising on LinkedIn, Advertising on Pinterest, Coaching for Results, Building High-Performance Teams, Salesforce for Sales Managers, Social Selling with Salesforce, Advanced Lead Generation, Measure Salesforce Effectiveness, Sales Prospecting, Social Selling with LinkedIn, Learning Salesforce, and Sales Coaching from LinkedIn.

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    Connect with Yannis Niebelschuetz:

    Read the Full Transcription of the Interview:

    Alejandro Cremades: Righty hello everyone and welcome to the deal maker show. So today. We have a really amazing founder that is joining us. You know a founder that has done in multiple times you know a founder that has been through the full cycle. You know, build it scale it finance it ah you know acquisition. And now he’s gone with his latest company from 0 to 600 employees in no time we’re gonna be talking quite a bit about blet scaling so without fartherdo. Let’s welcome our guests today. Yanie’s nibelutz welcome to the show.

    Yannis Niebelschuetz: Thank you and had to great to be here.

    Alejandro Cremades: So originally born in Berlin so give us a little of a walk through memory lane. How was life growing up there.

    Yannis Niebelschuetz: Sure. Yeah, so um yeah um I was born and raised in Berlin um, so that’s a long time ago but I spent the majority of my first half of my life there so went to school there when a university. And I also um, started my first 2 companies when I was based out of Berlin um I had a couple of more stops in my life. Um, so I lived in Spain 2 times I live in Denmark I live in Ireland and I live in New York city so I’ve you know traveled and moved a lot in my life.

    Alejandro Cremades: and and and I think that that’s probably shaped you you know quite a bit. How do you think that having had that exposure of having been in places like Barcelona madre doblin New York berlin even Denmark how do you think that has shaped your worldview and your perspective on things right.

    Yannis Niebelschuetz: Yeah, so I deliberately did that because I mean like many people I Love to travel I Love to learn about new cultures. Um, but I personally think for my own thought for myself and I think I was right back in the day that you only can really experience. Um. You know a culture really understand it if you live there. That’s that’s what I think and and still do um so that’s why I decided to to move there and I think it gave me some good perspective honestly because um, ah, you know we’re running a global company now and I do have quite a good understanding of the different cultures that I lived In. Um. Also help people take how the prejudices are you know about each other. Um and I would highly recommend it to anybody who who has the chance to do it. It’s an amazing Experience. It involves a lot of moving a lot of times looking for all flat a lot of times putting stuff in your storage. But it’s for me, it was totally worth it.

    Alejandro Cremades: Now your case you know. Obviously you’re building a rocket ship right now and we’re going to be talking about it in just a little bit but everything didn’t start. You know I say as ah, you know path full of roses as one would have expected as a founder because with your first company. You know things did not unfold the way that you want it. So what happened with with that company. Okay.

    Yannis Niebelschuetz: Yeah, sure so the very first company that I founded together with my ah brother who was also my cofounder at coachhop um was a company called my perfume and my perfume was a very interesting business idea. So what we did? Um. We had a website where you can customize your own perfume online. Yeah so you can customize it the sense the the different notes and you can also customize the bottle and it makes a fantastic present right? and we all started actually we started it out of uni. Um, when we were very young. And we put really everything we had obviously with not a lot of money but a lot of time and and heart and and power and passion to it. Um, and we built that to to more than 200,000 clients with India that’s a lot of clients right? It was a b two c ecommerce model. Ultimately though after I think all total. 3 4 years we decided not to pursue it any further so it didn’t work out which was devastating as you can imagine if you put so much effort so much heart blood so much you know of your time and and and you know your hopes into this one business model and then after like 4 years to find out. Shit. it’s not working I tell you it’s devastating it was not fun I did not have a good time. Um, but hey you know a life goes on.

    Alejandro Cremades: Well, you either succeed or you learn What did you learn there.

    Yannis Niebelschuetz: Yeah I mean it’s it’s you’re right? Yeah um I mean first of all I found out that ecommerce and b two c is not my personal passion. Um I like many mechanics of those business models and however i. You know since then followed actually the path of b two b that was 2011 since 2011 I focused on b two b and sales on on enterprise software and that’s my big passion. Um and may maybe that’s a learning right? It’s a it’s a learning outset where I found out that it’s you know this? this is more the thing for me. But besides that you know so is that learning we we had 200000 clients and but ah, you know in the first hand was a great business model. You know the retention wasn’t where it needed to be in the end but um, yeah look I learned a lot as well in terms of leadership in terms of how how to how to run a company. And hey ultimately actually it was the source of why coachup exists these days. So yeah I think I’m I’m thankful for that time in hindsight.

    Alejandro Cremades: Ultimately as they say you know wonder opens you know when another one closes. But in this case, the next one that would open that was tesop because once an entrepreneur always an entrepreneur. So what was the business model of tes hub because the outcome of Tesop was a little bit different. You know it ended up getting acquired. So.

    Yannis Niebelschuetz: Jeff.

    Alejandro Cremades: What were you guys doing there.

    Yannis Niebelschuetz: Yeah, so um, testtop was a usability testing platform. So um in it in core we had thousands tens of thousands of of testers of you know individuals freeancers of hobby. Um, you know enthusiasts who just went on websites on an apps and tested them. They recorded themselves while doing the you know browsing the app and the service and then just you know just recording themselves by this way when you then as ah as an um as an entrepreneur.

    Yannis Niebelschuetz: Or as a usability expert in the company review those videos you can see where they actually get stuck and it’s it’s so powerful and it’s you know it’s an amazing business model. It was ah you know it was a great business model. We sold it. But um, you know that that started all in on the beach in Barcelona. Um.

    Yannis Niebelschuetz: You know it’s ah it’s I don’t know if you show deep dive into this this story but it’s actually funny one cool. Yeah, so yeah, so after my perfume I took a time off I went to Barcelona to recharge. Um.

    Alejandro Cremades: Um, well let’s let’s hear the story then.

    Yannis Niebelschuetz: I did recharge for around four weeks I think so maybe five weeks and then I somehow came across a similar model. Um in in the us and I thought hey that’s awesome. It must be working in Europe as well. And um I thought a little bit about it because I had a background usability and software testing. And um I I thought hey that’s that’s that’s the most amazing business model in the world and what I did basically I ran home from the beach to my small shabby um apartment in Barceloneta which is. Right at the beach but not very nice flats and it’s not very nice to live there. It was very cheap because I didn’t have any money then I bought a huge palette of red bull and started coding so about the website and I started to you know approach the first clients and yeah it took off from then.

    Alejandro Cremades: So what was the business model there of test hub. Yeah.

    Yannis Niebelschuetz: Yeah, so so Tessa was this um this business model where freelance testers can review website and record themselves. Yeah.

    Alejandro Cremades: So How did that journey land into an acquisition. You know how was that the journey leading all the way up until you know that moment where all of a sudden you guys are engaging and and how did that unfold in and. And what kind of visibility did it give you to go through the full cycle with a company.

    Yannis Niebelschuetz: Yeah, so yeah, we built that company from from 0 like from beach and Barcelona um to you know to a successful exit the and the company is now owned the vista equity. So. It’s the large. Um maybe the largest private equity company in the world. Um, and yeah I mean the the business model was great. The execution was good. Um the the clients loved it and yeah, I’ve seen I’ve seen a successful b two b business model and falling unfolding. There.

    Alejandro Cremades: So how do you end up being Dublin you know, working for Linkedin after this transaction.

    Yannis Niebelschuetz: Yeah, so Dublin was many years later so I um I in between I was moving back to Berlin then I I was living in Denmark then I lived you know back in in Spain I left the madrid and then I moved to ah to Dublin because my girlfriend at that time she had a job at Google. And Dublin and she wanted to go and I said hey it’s Google. Of course we go there and I wanted to see how really really good saas companies operate from the inside as I mentioned I have this huge passion for b two b saas um, and I really wanted to see how do the best companies in the world operate. So it decided to take a job for 2 years Linkedin and build up their um business lines for the central european and Northern European markets and and let their sales teams and I can only tell it was awesome I learned so much. Um, many of the things that I learned at Linkedin are now applied at coachhop.

    Yannis Niebelschuetz: Um, many employees from Linkedin on our coach up I think it’s more than 100 people from Linkedin now work for coach up Linkedin I didn’t poach that they just came to me I didn’t write anybody so ah, it was. It was great experience. Overall.

    Alejandro Cremades: Oh my god.

    Alejandro Cremades: It’s how easy. So while you were there. You know visit from your brother changed the direction of things tell us about it.

    Yannis Niebelschuetz: Exactly? Yeah, so my brother who’s my co-founder at coachup he um, he visited me in Dublin at some point I think was 2000 um, 18 or 17 and yeah, we walked the rainy streets of Dublin he was working in and consultancy at the time. Um. I was working at Linkedin as I mentioned and we walked the streets and we you know we thought hey we both are entrepreneurs if you started our companies in the past before and you know our hearts burn for entrepreneur entrepreneurship and we want to build something again. We want to build a new business. But we said this time we don’t want to build another. You know, perffu company right? or we don’t want to sell and ship shoes. We want to do something with an impact and we wanted to do something that changes. You know your personal development your career and to a little bit society because coaching does exactly that and um, we reminded ourself. Back in the days at my perfume that we had in the and very early days together that we engaged a coach back in the days that helped us so much in some very complicated and difficult times when things were not going as they should. And ah my brother and myself we had we had a hard time. We were fighting a lot and this coach that we engaged back in the days helped us tremendously and so that was one one of the factors. Um I had a coach throughout my career up until um, up until now obviously.

    Yannis Niebelschuetz: That helped me so much. Um, in you know, finding what I want to do with my life where I want to be and you know then the third thing was that at Linkedin. There’s very strong coaching culture so all managers including myself are requested to coach their their people support them in their growth. And I just thought hey these are 3 perfect combinations. Um, let’s try try to do something in that space and we we yeah you know took our laptops I moved to Berlin a half year half year later we moved ah or yeah I moved back. And but we he kind of moved into my apartment and we just started coding and ah you know, ah approaching clients and that was just the start of all. Yeah, um, so coachup um is the world’s leading digital coaching platform. So what we do we match.

    Alejandro Cremades: So how do you guys make money in coach hub.

    Yannis Niebelschuetz: Um, certified business coaches um with employees of companies of all sizes. So if you’re you’re an entrepreneur and um, but with your employees. Um you might have experienced. You know when you try to develop them try to to grow them when you you know want to grow your leaders oftentimes. Just sent a to workshop right? like a 2 wo-day workshop. Go to the seminar become a great leader guess what? you know how? how will that that work right? It doesn’t there’s ah so many statistics. Um, that actually say that 80% of all content that you consume in a workshop or anything like that you forget this within two weeks it’s called forgetting curve and it just doesn’t work I have been to so many workshops myself to become a better leader. You just forget all that stuff so it requires a completely different approach. You know it’s um, it’s about lasting behavioral change. It’s about working with somebody that holds you accountable of of your actions you reflect. Um, you’re trying out new leadership styles and you you know you just grow and you grow and you engage with your coach over a long time and slowly but steady you grow and you change your behavior and you become a better leader and the most powerful tool to improve as a person to grow as a leader. Um. Yeah, and what we do is we match those coaches um with company default size and we have a saas fee so clients ah pay us a fixed yearly fee and they have unlimited access to their coach pretty simple and you can the coaching takes place virtually through an app or or a website.

    Alejandro Cremades: And how difficult that is to ah to build a two sides of the equation. You know the coaches on 1 end and then also the clients on their on the other and they supply the demand.

    Yannis Niebelschuetz: Yeah, so the beginning was very tough. Um, so we were sitting in our living room I was cold calling both clients and I was also cold calling coaches because I can remember so well. The early days that I spoke to the coaches they said ohw. Yeah, there are those you know many of those platforms. Those marketplaces we can sign up and then they send you clients. It never Works. You know imagine you were there as a founder with that idea and then they tell you you know these things have been tried before they didn’t work out and still you push through. Um it took a lot of ah you know, ah perseverance to to survive that. But so. Many people said the ad no we don’t want to do it eventually some people sign up some coaches. They I mean there’s no fee attached to anybody can apply to become a coach.. It’s extremely tough to become a coach at Coach because we have an extremely high bar on qualifications but it’s free Once you’re on a website. It’s free So We give you free clients. Um, but yet was very tough and in in the beginning for sure.

    Alejandro Cremades: At what point do you realize hey I think we’re into something here.

    Yannis Niebelschuetz: Yeah, so the the first 12 month at least were extremely tough. So um I it wasn’t my first startup right? and I wasn’t 23 anymore. So I was advancing my career. My brother. He just bought a house and got a small baby. So the stakes were high so we said are we really you know do we dared to jump and we said he could his job I could buy up. He said let’s do it right? let’s do let’s but if you do it let’s go all in because if you do something halfhearted. There’s pretty sure that it doesn’t work right? So we if we do if we do it right? So what we did we hustled like crazy for the first um, six months during those six months it was devastating. Um I can can remember I had many many periods in my um in in this in this time where it said shit. It’s not going to work. I’m going to give up I I said nots not going I’m I’m doing something else I I don’t want to do it anymore. There was so much pushback. It’s it’s all too risky now. Um I was about to give up many many times and but you know the only thing that I said that I can control is my input my work ethics and. How much I’m willing to succeed. This is the only thing that I can control because I cannot control if the kinds want to buy if the coaches want to join us. It’s it’s out of my control but I can’t control how hard I’m going to work so it just worked my ass off.

    Yannis Niebelschuetz: Right? And and then eventually um it it worked because eventually client said hey it’s actually interesting. Let’s have a conversation and coach said hey yeah, let’s have a conversation and slowly slowly. It was very slowly we you know we reached some I wouldn’t say a tipping point because it was never really a tipping point. It’s it’s still hard work. And but you know without that grind in the first twelve months no chance you wouldn’t be here.

    Alejandro Cremades: So what point does the blitzscaling you know activation button you know at what point is that pushed and then it’s like all believable growth.

    Yannis Niebelschuetz: Yes, so funny enough. Um, one of our investors that invested in test up back in the days I made some good money is a friend of mine. And I approached him and I presented and coach up to him because we wanted to have some input on on on ah some some ideas some metrics so we met him at restaurant to to discuss the business model really with no agenda and um, yeah I had a nice lunch for 2 hours ate very nicely very well. And then we went home and after like 3 hours this guy said guys I want to be in here is I can remember 100 k this is the valuation. Let’s go and see it oops that wasn’t the intention at all right? So um, so we thought about it for a while if you’re ready to take some external capital. Um, and then the end we said. Okay, screw it. Let’s do it so we took the money and we we started um, building pretty soon the next investors joined us some seed investors um speed invest and others wholesp spring ventures joined us and then you know one after the other join us right? then then Parek. Um, and eventually softbank and sophna joined us in our like latest round so it was um, yes, once we hit those went miles and after one and a half years let’s say it took off and and since then it’s it’s ah it’s a rocket ride.

    Alejandro Cremades: And how many how how much money have you guys raised to date and what has been that journey like yeah.

    Yannis Niebelschuetz: So in total we raised 3 a 30,000,000 and venture capital. Yeah.

    Alejandro Cremades: Got it. So um, now in this case, you know like when when you go from 0 to 600 employees like in in no time and we’re talking about you guys have been with the business for about 5 years a little over 5 years I mean how do you guys go about keeping it together when it comes to culture and and and so that people are you know.

    Yannis Niebelschuetz: Um, yeah.

    Alejandro Cremades: Dancing the same song with the same moves.

    Yannis Niebelschuetz: Yeah, it’s it’s extremely difficult and it’s extremely tough and remember it was in covid times in covid times to start. It’s getting completely remote, no offices. Um, and we we hired many people you know we both in the first place because we never were. Planning to open an office somewhere um in the midwest in the Us right? We have an ah office in in New York City and but we never be hired everybody everywhere and yeah it was tough it was tough I tell you? um I mean 1 great thing about codeship is that we have a great mission. So our mission and vision is to democratize coaching and make it accessible for everybody across the across the globe because coaching used to be very expensive I don’t know if you had any coaching in the past but executive coaching is extremely expensive and through technology want to make it accessible and obviously much cheaper than you would you know. Ah, pay for it when you just go to the culture around the corner. So we have a great mission which aligns many people by our purpose but still, it’s um, it was tough I mean I guess you know we did the stuff that many people did right? We did town halls. We did virtual events. We did huge focus on on our culture. But.

    Alejandro Cremades: Yeah, now 4 years in you realize that the is time to pack the backs and come to New York city why yeah

    Yannis Niebelschuetz: You know in the end it’s still as tough.

    Yannis Niebelschuetz: Yeah, so I moved to New York City yeah eight months ago and I did this mostly to grow our north american operations so we do have a sales team on the ground for a while now. Um, and you are successful here. But.

    Yannis Niebelschuetz: I Don’t know how other founders see it but oftentimes I hear and I I start to agree that it’s probably a good thing if one of the founders move to move to the us if you are serious about the Us and North American Market So I’m here now I’m so you know supporting and building the market I’m supporting in. Um, doing sales I’m meeting with clients I’m meeting with Partners I’m meeting with coaches and just help to build the brand and in our and our presence in the North American Market and I Just love it.

    Alejandro Cremades: And you think that that’s a something that because I’m I’m sure there’s a lot of people that are listening that are from outside of the us wondering hey you know when should I move to the us you know, like what have you learned from this transition from coming to the new to New York from you know, really thinking through into opening up the the us market I mean what? what kind of insights you know could you share with the people listening that are thinking about doing the same thing.

    Yannis Niebelschuetz: Yeah, so I would definitely recommend to test the waters right? Don’t test the waters you know with a very very small toe but maybe with the mid mid-sized Toe. So I’m saying don’t put one rep in the market In. See if if it works out. Not even to maybe put 3 or 5 ah salespeople to try to test the market because then you have some you know so statistically more relevant data. Um, but probably don’t hire a lot more because us is much more expensive than you are obviously. Um, and more competitive. It takes a while to crack. We cracked it ultimately but we had definitely our lessons to to learn in terms of the profiles that work for Coachup um or scaleup or startups. So not every profile but an enterprise background ah feels comfortable working in this um ambiguity in this environment. Um. But yeah, um, that’s that’s probably my my my my advice and and be close to the market joint client calls and and see what’s what’s going on.

    Alejandro Cremades: So so Also imagine you know in if you were to go to sleep tonight Yeni and you wake up in a world where the vision of coach up is fully realized what does that world will look like what would that world look like.

    Yannis Niebelschuetz: So I personally think that the world will look much much better because think about it what does coaching do um, coaching helps you reflect on your own behavior on your own emotions. Um. And if you if you think about it like I have my coaching you know on a regular base I just had my coaching today. My my last coaching session I reflected with my coach on ah on a conflict that I had in turtle and my coach told me Janis put yourself in the shoes of of the individual that you have in this conflict. This person might have their you know their their stress as well. They have stuff going on and you always have to you know, bring this compassion to these conversations and I you know I’m I’ve I’ve done a fair share of of business in my life. So I theoretically should know that but still this conversation reminded me of. This is the way you should lead and and just remember if every leader would be more compassionate would be more you know empathetic in the leadership style the world would be much better right? So this is the the lofty goal obviously that that could result in and everybody um benefit thing the you know the. The the power of coaching but I personally think um and I hope that more and more ceos just like me realize that coaching is the most powerful tool to grow their people and are going to invest in the workforce and offering them coaching.

    Yannis Niebelschuetz: Can be through Coachup can be through anything else but offer them coaching because it will just help them to grow tremendously.

    Alejandro Cremades: Now 1 thing that you alluded to earlier is you know cofounder dynamics and then also doing the business with your brother and how coaching you know has helped you guys to really be able to understand you know how you guys can really push you know as a team you know more effectively. So how how do you think that because there’s this book that that was written. You know called founder’s dilemma and it talks about you know how tough it is to do business with a family member. So how has it been the experience for you guys. How have you you know. It transformed yourselves or or or matured I would say you know to really have much healthier dynamics you know as cofounders but then also as brothers too.

    Yannis Niebelschuetz: Yeah, and it all goes back to my perfume because at my perpher we had tons of conflicts we had you know were fighting a lot I would even sometimes say that you know the the friendship to my brother would have been ah, not here anymore if you would have continued like that and I’m so glad that we brought in this coach who helped facilitate those conversations. Help to reflect ourselves on our own emotions and the way we interact with each other so we are very helpful for the for the help of our coach back in the days. But um, you know and I would say probably if it was the first time that I’ve found a company with my brother probably would be tough. It’s not the first time luckily so at coach up we are. Running like an old machine that’s awesome, right? Because everybody knows what their strength and weaknesses are um I do know what I’m good at I know what I’m good at and he knows what he’s good at and we have really zero conflicts. Of course we have discussions right? We are sometimes mislined on small details but over overall the big picture. And especially the collaboration. It’s awesome.

    Alejandro Cremades: Can you remember a specific moment where that coaching was applied that they created a tremendous breakthrough in your guesses relationship.

    Yannis Niebelschuetz: Yeah, it’s It’s mostly about the the interpersonal interaction. So when when we were fighting I mean we partially brought funny if we also lived together breaking the days because we were living together in a flat and also working together and we partially brought this stuff from work sort of from home to work. And we’re continuing to fight that it it was a lot but definitely the part of being more aware of your own emotions being where when emotions like Anger arise because you can feel it in your body and and be being mindful of them because you don’t want to be the. The slave of your emotions you want to be the master of your emotions right? you need to be able to use your emotions as a weapon and to to let them guide the conversation. It’s not the other way around right? So I think that was the most powerful essence back in the day.

    Alejandro Cremades: Now if I was to put you into a time machine and I bring you back in time you know perhaps to that moment that you were coming out of university and and getting together with your brother to start the first company and let’s say you had the opportunity of having a chat with your younger self and being able to give that younger yannies. 1 piece of advice before launching a business. What would that be and why given what you know now.

    Yannis Niebelschuetz: So I was and I still am extremely ambitious, especially when I was younger I was also impatient right? I wanted to do too many things at the same time I wanted to be faster I wanted to you know, do more things and. I Think that is not the right thing as a founder I think and that’s that’s what a mentor and business Angel once told me laser focus is is the absolute key if you want to build a successful Business. You have to be extremely focused on your vision and your mission and the strategy. Ah, zigzacking coming up with cool ideas left and right does not help I think this is the most most important lesson that I that I learned and I would tell myself.

    Alejandro Cremades: Now for the people that are listening Yannis what is the best way for them to reach out and say hi.

    Yannis Niebelschuetz: Yeah, probably Linkedin just shoot me a message and maybe um, refer that you heard me here on the on the podcast because then ah then I know where you’re coming from um and we can just connect and yeah have a chat.

    Alejandro Cremades: Amazing, easy enough. Well hey Yannis thank you so much for being on the deal maker show today. It has been an honor to have you with us.

    Yannis Niebelschuetz: Thanks a handle was ah great.

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