Neil Patel

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In the realm of entrepreneurship, there exists a unique breed of individuals whose journey embodies the essence of resilience, adaptation, and unwavering determination. Vivek Sharma, the visionary behind Movable Ink, epitomizes this spirit of tenacity and innovation.

Vivek’s company, Movable Ink, has attracted funding from top-tier investors like Contour Ventures, Contour, ff Venture Capital, and Intel Capital.

In this episode, you will learn:

  • Embrace change and diversity, for it fuels innovation across continents.
  • Failure is not a roadblock but a stepping stone towards greater achievements.
  • Honesty and resilience are the cornerstones of entrepreneurial success.
  • Continuously challenge assumptions and validate ideas to stay ahead in the game.
  • Leverage technology to revolutionize traditional industries and create impactful solutions.
  • Share wisdom and empower others, for collaboration breeds innovation.
  • In the entrepreneurial journey, persistence and adaptability are the ultimate currencies of success.



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About Vivek Sharma:

Vivek co-founded Movable Ink in 2010 and has led the company through rapid growth to a leading market position with 550+ employees serving the world’s most innovative brands.

Through his leadership, Movable Ink is empowering omnichannel digital marketers to personalize every customer engagement through automation and artificial intelligence.

Prior to co-founding Movable Ink, Vivek headed Eastern North America and EMEA sales for Engine Yard.

Earlier in his career, he held senior engineering roles at Blue Martini and Cisco Systems. Vivek graduated with a B.S. in Computer Science from the Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute.

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Connect with Vivek Sharma:

Read the Full Transcription of the Interview:

Alejandro Cremades: All righty hello everyone and welcome to the deal maker show. So today. We have a really exciting episode in front of us. You know we have a founder that has done it a couple of times you know and now he’s a riding this rocket ship. We’re going to be talking you know quite a bit about the pivots. You know that they did you know in order to really get. This moment moments of absolute adrenaline with just sixty days left you know of runway trying to close you know with an investor and then other things you know like for example, how to think about enterprise also how to raise obviously money and then how to deal you know with competitors as well. So. Without further ado we have quite an inspiring episode in front of us. Let’s welcome. Our guests today Vivek Sharma welcome to the show. So originally from India from the North of India so give us a walk through memory lane. How was life growing up.

Vivek Sharma: Great to be here. Alejandro.

Vivek Sharma: You know? Yeah, actually my my family is south indian from a region called tamnadu in the south but they had moved to the north to a town a town called gemshaur where tatta seal my dad was a mechanical engineer working there so was born in the north I grew up speaking hindi then english then we moved to the south where I spoke Tamil. Which is a south indian language and fun fact. Ah you know hindi and a european language like german actually are have more in common than Tamil which is a completely different linguistic route so grew grew up in India for about 8 till I was eight years old we bounced around to 3 different places and then moved to the Us. Ah, my parents took ah a big leap wanted a little bit more ah kind of opportunity future opportunity for us packed up a bunch of luggage packed us up with $1200 we headed to America to Massachusetts and lived with my aunt and uncle and our cousins for about.

Vivek Sharma: Five or six months till my dad got a job here and you know it’s been an adventure ever since I you know, kind of we moved around a lot in Massachusetts and New Hampshire typical immigrant story I’d probably been in about 9 different schools by the time I was in eighth grade. So.

Alejandro Cremades: Well, that’s actually kind of crazy I mean you know obviously moving at 8 already. You know you have your friends you you are able to really understand what’s happening around you so that’s obviously you know a first a culture shock and then.

Vivek Sharma: Definitely lived in a time of a lot of different change and seeing lots of different things.

Alejandro Cremades: You’re moving through like 9 different schools. So it’s like starting all over again, dealing all over again without uncertainty but I am pretty sure that that whole experience starting with landing in the us to moving school after school changing making friends every time. How do you think that shaped you.

Vivek Sharma: Yeah, ah to be clear I hated it. You know I hated us moving around that much and um, when you think about it. It’s like polar opposites if you if you think of South India both the warmth the culture. The people just a completely different thing and I grew to love Massachusetts. But it was coal there completely different culture back then this was around one eighty four we moved moved to the us you didn’t see a lot of other people that looked like us in in the area so that was jumping around schools. You know I’d make some friends and then maybe six months later a year later. My dad had a changing job and we moved elsewhere. So certainly hated it. You know wasn’t a thing that I was a big fan of and so I was really glad by the time we got to eighth grade we settled down in 1 place and I spent all of high school in a town called pepperroll Massachusetts in Northern Mass and so I think we just got adjusted to change and although those things we we we. Weren’t big fans of back then now I kind of like run towards that I’m actually I need to change things up constantly and I get bored if I’m doing the same thing over and over so it maybe depends on where I live or what the work looks like or 1 of the things I love running a company is every year things look totally different than the year before. So. Sameness is something I’m not a huge fan of anymore.

Alejandro Cremades: I hear you I hear you now in your case you know you? Um, obviously we’re graduating when the Webp you know whole webp. You know thing was exploding and and I think that that that also gave you some perspective because initially you wanted to be. And Aerospace engineer and then all of a sudden you realize that that’s not meant for you. So How do you think that the environment around you you know, change your thinking or or helped you in that thought process to really realize you know what was your path forward.

Vivek Sharma: Yeah, and this might seem like a weird thing to kids going through college today I have two boys they’re 12 and 9 and they don’t know a world before an ipad and the internet and all of these things but you know we we had a personal computer. My dad had a pc at home and he would do spreadsheets and. Ah, he was an an engineer so he would do some of his drafting work in cad software and my brother and I would play games. You know we’d download games like Haratka or Joust or you know all sorts of pc games and so I took a programming class and so this is like 89 to 93 I was in high school and I was interested in programming. Was pascal. We learned some basic first and we learned pascal and ah my high school computer science teacher mentioned that hey all the important programs have kind of been written for pcs and he wasn’t really sure there was a huge job opportunity in focusing on that. So I kind of took that off the list. And I’d always been a math in science passionate about that and entered a university called renseley or rensley or Polytechnic Institute ah which had a great engineering program and I went in thinking I was going to be an a aerospace engineer. You know it would been great to work on ah Nasa you know Nasa shuttles and I think about a year year and a half into it I realized. Hey this is my passion isn’t quite here. You know differential equations thermodynamics fluid mechanics you know this is like really intense math and engineering and you’re working within the laws of physics kind of these physical systems and the programming classes that I took.

Vivek Sharma: Started to get really interesting to me and another formatting formative thing was seeing the first web browser the first year we arrived in college and so mosaic was set up on all of these computers and companies were popping up new services lios infoic you know Yahoo showed up. And it was like wow this is the new frontier. This is really exciting stuff that’s happening here and I switched over a new computer science major and just kind of followed my follow my interest followed my curiosity which kind of has always served me well by doing that and eventually landed me in Silicon Valley right after college.

Alejandro Cremades: So then let’s talk about what happened next you know how was it you know going there and and how did you start there with Cisco and and perhaps you know realizing that corporate was a not as exciting as you had thought.

Vivek Sharma: Yeah I think I got my first inkling of this during university where I did a couple of internships one was at Pratt Whitney they make jet engines and I was writing test software and it was such a very different environment from being in college and it’s academic and you have philosophical conversations about things and there’s a dynamism to being. Clocked into a big company that can sometimes feel a bureaucratic you’re lost in the shuffle and Cisco was very dynamic. Then I mean they were a rocket ship. A new building was popping up on a campus every every month or so and I joined there and I was writing s and Mp software that would look at network. Ah. Network management and signals that were coming in there and put dashboards in front of users. Ah, but it was a huge company and I felt like a drop in a bucket and I didn’t know how the work I was doing was connected to what the business was really up to and so this is a big company thing I realized maybe I’m not fit for a big company is this corporate amount is this what life in the corporate world looks like. Ah, so I left I consulted for like three months and landed at a startup in the bay area called blue martini software ah, the engineering team had all come from Netscape they had built Netscape commerce server. The salespeople had been a sbel oracle and it was about 20 people big and the atmosphere was just very electric and dynamic and you could feel that in the interview. And like I got to be a part of this so I came in as a contractor at first it was 20 people joined full time worked on the first version joined the core engineering team and I think there were like 6 engineers at that time on the core team. Ah, we built the first version of the software released it and the 6 versions after that.

Vivek Sharma: and in two and a half years that company went from 0 revenue to north of 100000000 went through one of the biggest Ipos of 2000 became a five six billion dollars company at its peak and it was an amazing ride to go from 20 people to 800 people in that short period of time and probably one of the most intense work environments I’ve ever been in. But I learned a lot in in that journey and realized hey there’s something here despite the intensity this is the kind of work environment I want to be in.

Alejandro Cremades: What would you say were the 3 ingredients because obviously you started earlier you you were able to really see what propelled the success of the company of of blue martini software I guess what were the 3 ingredients that you thought perhaps you know, made that right magical.

Vivek Sharma: That first and foremost it was a dream team the core engineering team. the the 3 people Doug Sam and Brian They worked together before as one unit at Netscape commerce server and they were all brilliant in their own right? and so almost intimidatingly so.

Alejandro Cremades: To get there. Okay.

Vivek Sharma: And so being a part of that it really pushed me and the other engineers to think bigger and there was ah not a lot of ah guidance it was like you’re thrown into the deep end of the pool and you’re going to learn and it’s going to be intense but you’ll you’ll get a lot out of it. Ah, the sales team to so the Ceo of that company montys ween had successfully had an exit before and his first. Few hires were exceptional people. Exceptional talent senior leader so it was a been there done that type of leader and they built a dream team right? from the start and I credit a lot of their early success to that and having a clear strategy about how they wanted to build this company. And another fun story is that ah Mark Benioff was friends with Monti and and had a little piece of software called And Blue Martin was the first salesforce customer ever and I actually had dinner with a sales rep who who jokeed to me. Ah, he was the first rep asked to. Ah. Update is information on salesforce you know, get get us stuff into salesforce right away. So just an amazing experience. Amazing pool of talent I attribute all of the the success to that.

Alejandro Cremades: So then after this, you know I mean you you did the the sales stint I mean you you actually were also experiencing Japan there. 1 thing that you did you know that they eventually you found that were a little bit too early was you know trying at it at it on your own as an entrepreneur and you started. You know, perhaps a mobile social network you know at this point but you realize that it was too early so in this case, you were not able you know to really build an audience and perhaps you know the timing of the idea was not right? So as the saying goes you either succeed or you learn. So what was the lesson that you took away from that you know, attempt and on entrepreneurship.

Vivek Sharma: Yeah, lot lot of lessons learned so I ended up in Tokyo when as a bloom martin towardsur the later end of the years and I’d learned a lot in engineering but sales was a completely mysterious world for me and I had no idea what salespeople did I didn’t know what a lead is or an opportunity or how deals get closed. And at some point in the future I thought maybe I want to start a company. So ah unfortunately I neither I had no sales experience and I don’t speak japanese but somehow the Ceo took a bet on me and sent me over there to help the sales team so I spent about six months in Tokyo and ah 1 of the fascinating things was the yeah. What they call kth which is the the cell phones in Japan back then in the us the phones were mainly feature phones. You had these like no name brands and maybe you for you were lucky. You had a Nokia smartphone or a palm trio blackberry came a little bit later and it was really interesting that both. Japan and then when I spent a little time in London the the phones were more advanced and you could do more interesting things and so friendster had already been pretty big and so we figured there should be a mobile social network and there weren’t a whole lot of this kind of idea going on so partnered up with a student from the mit media lab. Um. Machine learning and Ai was a part of what we wanted to do from the early days and ah figure out how to use Bluetooth to identify who’s who’s proximal of whom how to facilitate interactions that are in the real world. There’s all this advanced stuff that we wanted to go build and we started building unfortunately.

Vivek Sharma: The devices there just to go install the software you get to go through like 7 screens of settings. It didn’t work on every device we have to do a different build on every device so we ended up overengineering a lot of stuff and realized we were. You know we didn’t know this then we just we were too early to the market. Some of our bets played out in the right kind of time. Mapping apis geocoding apis popped up but other things just took a lot longer and so it was 3 three and a half years that we just kind of toiled away building all this code probably overengineering over building this this product and um. As ah as a former engineer that was probably my big mistake to not keep things simpler early on and it was just too early for for what was possible in mobile and then the iphone came out about six months after we shut down the business. It’s very painful at that point to realize this was not going to work. The iphone came out and then probably a couple years later. Ah, those ideas would have been possible but that became a really important lesson on market timing about technology innovation in the future and knowing how and when to make bets is almost as important as working on the thing.

Alejandro Cremades: So Eventually, you know you ended up starting another one and that was a market I O and they obviously same thing you know it didn’t unfold the way that you had to hope for. But in this case, what you did is you decided to go with a pivot so walk us through. Why didn’t you do a pivot on the last company. Why did you do a pivot on this company and eventually you know this ended up becoming what you were up to what mobile so woke us to what were the sequence of events in order for you to really make it happen and get to where you are now.

Vivek Sharma: Yeah, so um, I did my what I call purgatory I I was going to hard on myself that I hadn’t made the company succeed and I thought the sales aspect is something that I had to cultivate so I took a job doing just sales at a company a technology company for a couple of years and I learned a lot in that process. And I realized hey I think I’ve got the basics down on how to sell ideas not just build these things and so we started this company. There was a friend of mine paul in New York who was a machine learning guy and so that is a bit of the common thread machine learning has been a part of pretty much every company every startup I’ve been doing since you know. But I started my career. Um, we created a 2 wo-sided marketplace and it was called market io and the idea was pretty simple if you’re a merchant selling apparel you’re selling. You know, pants and shirts. Maybe you can cross sellll merchandise from a complementary merchant who’s selling accessories like belts and shoes. And have 1 seamless checkout. Ah good idea but turned out to be way hard to execute and build this 2 wo-sided marketplace and so we worked intensely hard on this for about eight months and then finally realized this is going to be too hard. You know if you’ve got the distribution. You’ve got the traffic coming to your website. There’s not a lot of interest for you to go share that with ah other companies and bring them in and sell complementary mer merchandise and if you do you know that might be a new product line that you introduce yourself in the future. So we pivoted.

Vivek Sharma: Ah, hard from that and along that ride this guy Michael Nutt joined our team like three or four months into it and market io had failed and Michael and I came up with this different idea that was focused on email. So email was really interesting to us because it’s a ubiquitous communication channel. It’s an open protocol. It’s our digital wallet. It knows so much about us and probably most interesting was it was not bleeding. Edge. Everyone was already using it. It wasn’t like trying to build a mobile app in 2003 so we focused on mobile and on on email rather and one of the. Essential innovations early on was ability to build email content the moment you open an email so you’re seeing something you open up that email and it knows the time of day it knows where you are what device you happen to be on and it’s able to generate image on the fly and so we were wowed that this kind of. Technical thing was possible and we came up with a bunch of use cases and we got very excited about it and then we started digging in neither one of us had an email background so I got a Mailchimp account I got a campaign monitor account and went entirely through the flow and realized content was really falling short in a lot of these products. So what? if we could squarely focus on the content personalization aspect of email marketing and that’s what we set out to do and we built. We know we didn’t make the same mistakes I’ve made in the past I think the first version of the product was built over a weekend. Michael is a brilliant engineer. He duct taped the solution together I built a pitch deck over that weekend too.

Vivek Sharma: And we just iterated and tried to find customers and a lot of those early customers were startups. They were you know a Techstars back company or a daily deal site or a flash sales site that was really popular. You know about ten twelve years ago and the thing that we learned is sometimes we’d get these customers in there’d be some use cases. We’re doing. But it was really hard to get them to part with their dollars and spend anything meaningful and so for about a year we kind of toiled away with this and I think our revenue about a year into this idea was $200 a month. Ah, and so we’re like we can’t build a business on this and we were selling to the wrong customer. Ah, what we were avoiding enterprises thinking it’s gonna be really hard to sell to enterprises and so with the right idea but it was a wrong kind of customer and the first time we got an enterprise deal about a year after for $12000 to a pilot and then shortly after we close a seventy Thousand R deal we realized wow this is. There’s something here. It’s eclipsing what we were trying to do before we have the right product. We just didn’t have the right customer and we double down triple down on it and only went after enterprise from that point and they’ve got these big teams and big audiences and they’ve got budget to spend on things that are driving effectiveness. And that completely changed our business and we found our initial product market fit by nailing that enterprise customer.

Alejandro Cremades: So for the people that are listening to get it. What ended up being the business model of mobileable. How do you guys make money.

Vivek Sharma: Yeahp so the core technology what we call studio today. Our initial product would tap into any data source that you have whether it’s an api a Csv file we could even tap turn your webp page into a restful api and activate it and generate content from it. Sort’s like a composite image that forms inside your email. That’s unique to every single person who’s a subscriber on your email list so that really automates this idea of personalization from your own data and the way we priced. It was um, those a consumption-based model so depending on how many email opens you would. Ah. Think you had and by the way we we played around with all sorts of pricing models I do think it’s really important to not only nail what the product does but how you sell it and how it gets priced and packaged because that can make it easy to adopt or very challenging to adopt. So what that allowed us to do we. We forecast the number of email opens and we might get. 1 marketer using us in a couple campaigns a week initially so it might be a smaller deal initially, they’d get those proof points see that it’s successful and start to come up with other use cases and roll us out into additional campaigns within their department. Another marketing manager might start using us then maybe the international division. The Uk version of that brand starts using us and on and on so it set up a great land and expand motion which at that time we didn’t realize ah there wasn’t a whole lot of information about Saas Sas was very early in 2010 late twenty ten when we started the company.

Vivek Sharma: And we were reading Jason Lemkin and Sasser and you know, ah, everyone kind of blogging about this stuff but we kind of learned the stuff from first principles around build the core thing build this land and expand motion have those proof points and ah today we’ve got customers who might start at at thirty forty Thousand dollars a year but then they end up over the years spending upwards of $1000000 sometimes several million dollars a year on movelank. So it’s been exciting to build up that business model and the pricing model along the same time that we’re innovating on the software so we did that with a core product. And today we’ve got over four hundred enterprises that use us in a variety of ways household names like we’ve got 20 divisions to amazon we have the home depot we have every airline in the us we have american express so it’s a who’s who listed bluechi companies and what was also interesting about this is that. We were solving a problem that the big email service providers of that time weren’t solving so exact target responses chetah mail and epsilon were falling short here and we were the only company that was really innovating here so we could partner with those other companies rather than go compete with them.

Alejandro Cremades: And how much capital have you guys raised to date.

Vivek Sharma: Um, we’ve raised $97000000 to date.

Alejandro Cremades: And I know that on the series b there is a quite a an adrenaline filled moment. You know when you had to Intel you know why knocking on the door. So what happened there you know when he came to a runway and perhaps you know, ah a little error there that you know you guys found.

Vivek Sharma: Yeah, so the 97000000 is also interesting because today we are well north of $ 100000000 in run rate and 55000000 of that was raised only a couple years ago you know back in 22 so we’ve been very capital efficient through the entire life of the company. And ah, only in this conversation is kind of occurring to me connecting the dots to being the immigrant family here. You know we we had to make a dollar stretch and make sure that you’re getting the return on that investment and that it’s worth our while so that’s built into our Dna That’s how we think about things like really understanding. What is the incremental value of a dollar. We’re going to invest. Um.

Vivek Sharma: Early on. We got a couple seed investors and they’ve been wonderful ah to us contour ventures was one of them compound is another one mac war and a contour. Um, ah, Mark Michelle at compound and John Frankel at ff ventures hit our seed around and that was just so like million point three. And the valuations weren’t that crazy back then so that was on a $3000000 pre was our like our initial round back in 20 um, twenty Eleven early twenty eleven and we had some success and we start to see some acceleration of the business and. Ah, we were closing revenue fast enough that we could start to hire and use our own revenue to go hire people. But then we realized it was more acceleration that we wanted to ah have play out so we were looking to raise an $8000000 round and had some conversations and Intel Capital is the firm that we chose and we got term sheet from them. Ah, we we had great conversations and unbeknownst to me as we were going through that that process we have a term sheet. They’re going through their diligence and ah Intel has got a committee that that has a final look at the deal. We um, there was an fp and a error. In the in the model that we had assumed we had six months of runway in our in our cash but but someone had made an error on the model and it turned out. We only had sixty days left and this was a crazy thing to suddenly find out that if this if this funding didn’t come through.

Vivek Sharma: We’d been in a pretty bad situation and unable to operate the business after a certain point and so luckily things turned out fine. We had some conversations later on about some follow up diligence questions. But ah it was it was all good and you know one of those near death experiences that. Hammers into you the importance of being on top of all of the details of your company and just because I was an engineer just because I was thinking about sales. You really have to know every part of everything in the business and just because you’ve never done it before doesn’t excuse it. You know that’s part of the job of being the Ceo. Of being deeply involved in being able to anticipate risk and to try to mitigate that risk and really understand what’s what’s what’s happening in that business.

Alejandro Cremades: So let’s talk about a now vision. So let’s say you were to go to sleep tonight and you wake up in a world where the vision of movable is say fully realized what does that world look like.

Vivek Sharma: Yeah, if um, if I’m looking at the future. There’s a big revolution happening in Ai right now and this is interesting for me because it connects a lot of my interest from university and thinking about machines that can think machines that can partner with humans and do really interesting things. And today we’ve got an amazing enterprise customer base. You know Gpt has blown this into public consciousness but a couple of years before about a little more than two years ago. We acquired a company an Ai company called coherent path and we rebranded that as da vinci so da vinci. Is ah, an ai first solution an ai native solution that is partnering with marketers the marketer and machine coming together and it takes a lot of the gut feeling and intuition around running a marketing program out of the equation. So here’s a machine picking out what is the right content. To serve this individual. You know where are they going in their buyer’ journey in their journey of discovery so it behaves a little bit like a personal shopper in that regard. It’s also figuring out. What’s the right send time for this email campaign. What’s the right frequency. What’s the copy that they should see is a whole class of ai services that we’re incorporating into this and this is a. Big departure from how marketing programs used to work where people would put up a calendar and they would argue and debate and merchandisers would want different things to show up on different days and whoever was allowedest would often be the one who got their got their way into the program and so this suddenly.

Vivek Sharma: Changes The equation. It is very data-driven and it’s finding out how to create a unique path and journey for every single customer that you’re talking to and it’s been fascinating to see fascinating to see the insights and when it when it comes down to it The measurement of it. We don’t win deals unless we show incremental value. To our customers these big brands and so the average da vinci customer seeing a 25% lift in revenue higher click-through rates lower Unsubscribes they’re seeing dormant subscribers get activated again and start purchasing so it is a completely different concept and we’re ushering in this world where I think people are going to be. Working with machines a lot more and Ai is going to infuse itself into the marketing department and fundamentally change how marketing gets done and ask me better for the consumer because they’re going to have a more tailored experience than ah, the more generic one that they might might have been served in the past.

Alejandro Cremades: So Let’s say now I was to put you into a time machine where they can and I was to bring you back to that moment where you were thinking about you know, perhaps building something of your own. Ah and let’s say you were able to. Top that younger self on the tracks and and give that younger self one piece of advice for launching a business. What would that be and why given why you know now.

Vivek Sharma: My advice to myself as I was starting the mobile company or every point in the future is to be ruthlessly honest with yourself about what is working and what’s not working and on ah on a very quick cadence. Every single day you should be learning something and you should be challenging your assumptions you should be validating your ideas you know I do think ideas come from a little bit of like vision about what the future can look like but make that tangible and start to test this out with real customers right away because it is easy to delude yourself. And the speed with which you put these things your ideas in front of customers get feedback and start or refine. It is going to determine your success because you have a limited runway. You might be able to go the distance. You might be willing to spend more than 2 years but your team might not be willing to go make you know make a two year three year four year commitment that seeing meaningful progress so that honesty and knowing where you are um is probably the single biggest thing and coupled with that a resilience. Ah there was something jensen wag the Ceo of Nvidia said recently and as an immigrant fellow immigrant like it. It struck a chord with me which is. Resilience is the the most important factor that founders can have and he didn’t know how to teach it to the Stanford class that he was sitting in front of but there’s no way to get ah besides pain and suffering so he wished pain and suffering on on everyone in the audience and I that that rings very true to me I think there’s no easy way to go about it.

Vivek Sharma: You need the Scar tissue to kind of get those lessons and those painful moments and ah sometimes especially for an intellectual founder or someone who’s been an engineer, you need to put a different hat and be able to just punch through a wall Sometimes it is just about tenacity and the willingness to kind of. Figure out know that there’s always a path.. There’s always a solution to whatever sticky problem that you’re in and your job is to go figure out what that is because it is always there. It’s it’s sitting in there waiting to be discovered.

Alejandro Cremades: I Love it So vi big for the people that are listening that will love to reach out. What is the pageway for them to to say hi.

Vivek Sharma: Yeah I’m easy to get to I’m V Sharma at I’m on Linkedin as well. Pretty easy to find over there I definitely do connect and you know one of the one of my joys is also talking to founders who are early in their journey. And understanding how they’re thinking about the future and I feel energized by talking about other people’s businesses and they’ve got a completely fresh new perspective about the world that they’re in and what they’re seeing so you know if I’m able to help and and share some advice I’m happy to do that. But it’s a very exciting time to be a founder in a very exciting world that we live in.

Alejandro Cremades: I may say well hey we make thank you so much for being on the deal maker show today. It has been an on earth to have you with us.

Vivek Sharma: Ah, it’s great to be here all a hundred. Thank you for the time.


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