Neil Patel

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Troy Helming is a Unicorn Founder (with 6 company exits) and a modern-day industrialist. He’s an inventor (60+ patent claims), an elite athlete, an author (1 book + 100s of articles), and a clean energy executive. He’s founded companies that have generated more than $30 Billion of economic impact, and he serves on numerous boards. He’s a longtime wellness practitioner & yogi.

In this episode, you will learn:

  • Joint ventures
  • What EarthGrid is doing
  • How to validate your ideas
  • Expert time management tips


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About Troy Helming:

Troy Helming is a Unicorn Founder (with 6 company exits) and a modern-day industrialist.   He’s an inventor (60+ patent claims), an elite athlete, an author (1 book + 100s of articles), and a clean energy executive. Troy Helming has founded companies that have generated more than $30 Billion of economic impact, and he serves on numerous boards. Troy Helming is a longtime wellness practitioner & yogi.

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Troy Helming is a former runway model, former gymnast & national champion (1990) and 2-time All-American male cheerleader, and an American Ninja Warrior. Troy Helming was invited to compete on the hit NBC show in Seasons 10 & 12, was ranked #8 in the world in the Over-40 category in 2018, and then began winning competitions in the “Masters” division.

Troy Helming now competes – not in the Master’s Division – but as a Pro alongside much younger competitors and regularly places in the top 10% of most competitions, occasionally making the podium (top 3).  Troy Helming has been the founder & CEO of two impactful clean energy companies: TradeWind Energy, which he founded in 1998 & sold in 2004 (>$8 Billion of wind projects were built by the company Troy Helming founded since then, and was the #1 Wind Developer in the USA in 2017) and then Pristine Sun: >350 solar projects built so far totaling $500 Million in market value (including projects sold to other companies such as Renesola (NYSE: SOL) & Enerparc) and many high profile projects including the largest floating solar project award in North America & the largest community solar projects in both Vermont and Wisconsin.  Troy Helming is the author of the 2005 book The Clean Power Revolution, co-inventor of FloatoRack (an innovative floating solar system with multiple patents pending) and inventor of the Red Gopher (a world-changing technology in stealth mode also with patents pending).

Troy Helming has been driving an electric car since 2012, alternative cars since 2004 (biodiesel & CNG) as an early adopter, and was the 1st customer of the world’s fastest production motorcycle, the all-electric Lightning LS-218.  Troy Helming is a yogi, rock climber, and family man: he’s married to Alysia Helming, author of the best-selling young adult novel Protogenesis and creator of a TV series in development & co-writer of a movie script in development. They have one son and live in the San Francisco Bay area.

Connect with Troy Helming:

Read the Full Transcription of the Interview:

Alejandro: Alrighty hello everyone and welcome to the dealmakerr show. So do today we have a very exciting founder a founder that has done it multiple times. So many times that I lost track record unbelievable. But we’re gonna be learning quite a bit. You know it’s incredible. You know, building scaling financing. All the above. You know that’s what this founder has done so without farther ado let’s welcome our guest today Troy Helming: welcome to the show.

Troy Helming: Alandro. Thank you so much for having me.

Alejandro: So born in Denver Colorado but you travel quite a bit you ended up, you know, finding yourself in Kansas City so give us a little while of a walk through memory lane. How was life growing up.

Troy Helming: Ah, yeah, Kansas City was a great town. Great barbecue. Lots of fountains but fairly fairly conservative and my family roots are from California but my folks moved me there when I was five years old and my dad was in the agriculture industry.

Alejandro: And always see you know seeing your family being entrepreneur entrepreneurs themselves I’m sure that they you know that that that taught you you know that that gave you exposure to the apps, the downs and and all of that good stuff. So so how was it like for you to experience that you know at least indirectly.

Troy Helming: Yeah, well growing up I was really shy and introverted and my dad had a ah radio show called the helming report for 30 years over most of the country and he was a ah speaker and and so it kind of. Taught me almost forced me to learn how to how to you know, get comfortable with public speaking which was a big fear of mine growing up and and also watching his challenges. You know the ups and downs of his business and the the struggle frankly that. That my mom had you know with that you know because the the security that that was there for near the end for quite a while but it was tough in the beginning so you have to have a stomach to be an entrepreneur I know your listeners know that.

Alejandro: And nothing nothing like being able to find you know the gaps because in your case you know you ended up working at at and t right after that you know like you ended up starting your first business. You know after a few years of working at at and t where you became a distributor of equipment. You know for them. But I guess at what point do you realize hey I think I’m ready you know I mean kind of like it’s strange that having that entrepreneur entrepreneurial bug. You know having that in your family you went and worked for another company. Yeah.

Troy Helming: A huge company. Yeah at and T but I kind of figured that it and I got this advice from my dad. He Also I was going to college as an engineer he’s like get a business degree. You can hire engineers. So I did and I did but it it helped me learn what I was good at and what I was not good at. Working at a big corporation and more importantly, it helped me build up a nest egg and that’s I think one of my earliest lessons is and again I get credit to to my uncles and my dad but you know build up savings before you start your own Company. So I did and that that allowed me to make. Better strategic decisions rather than short-term only thinking.

Alejandro: So in this case, you ended up becoming a distributor and you did that for a while until you find yourself, you know reading a newspaper one day.

Troy Helming: Exactly 9098 after doing really well at at and t and and oh by the way, another reason I left at and t is they rewarded me for breaking all these sales records by shrinking my territory you know so I had to do just as well with fewer potential customers. So I was like no, that’s not the right way to do things. So I left and competed with them. But anyway yeah I read an article in 9098 that said 3 States Kansas Texas and North Dakota had enough wind energy potential to power the whole country I was like wow we should be doing that so I had no idea what I was doing although I grew up in ah and a home that was a solar powered home solar eat at home. So I had an exposure to clean energy since I was a kid in the 1980 s but yeah, sold sold my distributorship started ah a wind company promptly made some mistakes but surrounded myself with smart people that knew better than I did how to do it and some partnerships. And yeah, we ended up becoming by 2017 Trade Wind energy became the largest wind development company in the United States

Alejandro: And how are you guys say making money how thus like ah like a company you know like this you know make money I mean what was the business model there.

Troy Helming: So as a developer kind of like a real estate developer. We would develop solar excuse me in this case, wind projects and that means when I say develop that means get the permits get the land tied up leases and so forth or buy it and almost always leases get. Interconnection agreements with utilities to connect to the grid and then get a customer that wants to buy the power once you have all those things lined up then you can sell the project to somebody and they’ll pay you. What’s called a developer fee. And so we sold our projects to Anel and I sold most of my shares in 2004 but I was the you know Ceo and founder and under my watch a number of projects were were developed.

Alejandro: And in fact, they right now those assets today are worth thirty. Five billion is that right.

Troy Helming: That’s right, yeah, it’s the assets that were acquired over the years by Anel and the team that I hired to replace myself. Stayed there until fairly recently. And that’s right, solar and wind assets that were built and or under development are worth thirty five billion so I guess I started a company that became ah a deca unicorn.

Alejandro: So what was your listen you know to be learned from ah from that company because a you know that I’m sure that there’s a lot of things that you learned along the way.

Troy Helming: There are you know grit again making the right decisions to stay stay focused and and make strategic decisions but bringing in a partner. We farmed a joint venture with podoma wind power which out of San Diego and they knew. The business way better than us and we’re like okay you know we’re coming out of nowhere. Let’s let’s get somebody with a track record and share the upside with them on the first 2 2 or 3 projects so that was a lesson and then another lesson is to is is. Is to not sell out too early I really wanted to own the projects which is why I sold most of my shares in 2004 I should have held on a little more of the equity I was too eager to you know to to just get out I should have been a little more patient.

Alejandro: So So obviously after this success you know anyone would get cocky and you went and you started crystal energy and when you did Crystal Energy. You know I guess that there what happened is that you kind of like get a got a little bit of head of ahead of the game. And and and basically you know like you guys ended up achieving an outcome that it was not the one desired So as they say you either succeed or you learn I’m sure that the lessons that you learned here were even bigger than the ones that you learn on the previous say company because typically when you succeed it’s not you don’t really learn much. So I Guess how was that the experience from you going from such a smashing you know blockbuster you know, success to all of a sudden you you find yourself picking up the pieces. 

Troy Helming: Yeah, Crystal energy is my my failure. My one company that that I failed all the others I’ve had exits but a lot of lessons but the main one is to stay focused the wolf that chases two rabbits goes hungry and at Crystal energy we were selling. Basically energy efficiency and renewable energy products and services to you know, consumers and small businesses and we tried to please everybody. We were trying to do too much and we got just spread out way too thin. And capex and opex got too high and we were trying to do it and the margins were too thin so we eventually just had to shut the company down. So Yeah focus is really the the primary key and you’re right I felt like I you know everything I touched turned to gold I Thought you know I can do this but no I couldn’t.

Alejandro: And at what point do you realize? hey we got to pull the plug I mean how does that team because I mean that’s a really tough decision and I’m sure that they you know those were really dark days for you.

Troy Helming: It was yeah it was. It was very tough I mean there was regulatory. Scrutiny. There were financial challenges. There were all kinds of things and at some point we realized you know hey without I was going without salary. My wife was too. She was a co-founder with me and and. Financially, it was hard on us and eventually we realized either the company has to fold or we have to you know, put a bunch more money in either from ourselves or raising money and I didn’t feel right trying to go out and raise money for a business plan that I At that point had. Finally admitted was not a good business plan.

Alejandro: So obviously the company Folds and the incredible lessons that you take with you What happened next.

Troy Helming: Yeah, so I started ah a little bio diesel I had ah a diesel vehicle so I started a little biodiesel experimentation in my garage while I was doing some consulting trying to figure out what to do. And I made too much of it. So I sold a few fifty five Gallon drums to a local construction company for their off-road caterpillar equipment and they were like oh we love this stuff. It has great lubricity and anyways so I designed and built a ten million gallon per year bioddisel plant. Kansas City and we were on a rail spur had rail cars and vacuum trucks to collect cooking oil from restaurants and hotels and casinos and we bought chicken fat and beef fat from agricultural rendering facilities and anyway built built up a little nice little Biodiesel Plant business

Alejandro: Now 1 thing here that is interesting too is that you did it in parallel with another one and that was with a pristine and they ultimately you know like with the with pristine you know pristine son you know what you what you realize is that the passion was really not there. You know with Casey Biofuels and and eventually you know you decide that it’s time to you know Um exit. You know that company and to fully focus on pristine son. So what? what happened there with a passion.

Troy Helming: Well growing up around a solar system in the 1980 s I always loved solar. But the economics were challenging for a long time even at crystal energy. We. We did a few little solar projects and some of the clients that we had met. There continued to work with me and so I was still doing doing solar projects in the midwest in California but you know living living in Kansas City and I realized gosh California is the land of opportunity for solar they they passed ah some legislation that basically. Created a multi-billion dollar industry with you know, feed-in tariffs and and and subsidies and credits and so forth I was like you know what we need to relocate to California and ride the solar wave or the solar coaster that we that we call it now and so yeah I sold my and that. That was my passion. You’re right? You know that drew me and so we sold the the biodiesel plant you know, made not not a lot of money high six figures on that exit but enough to invest more into the solar company relocate the family to to move to California and pursue.

Alejandro: Now with pristine son. You know the way that it works a say is pretty unique I mean because for the company now you guys have raised for those projects 250,000,000 so how that say it they work. You know when you have like the money that you raise for projects versus the money that you raise for the corporation itself.

Troy Helming: Pursue the solar dream.

Troy Helming: Right? So project capital is what’s called project finance where you get a contract from say a utility or a data center or tech company or something where they say yeah we want to buy the output of the solar farm over a 15 or 20 or 30 year period or something like that. And you take that contract from a credit worthy customer and you put the development time and effort and money in as the company you earn ah a developer fee and then you raise outside capital and in our case, we raise 250000000 from a private equity fund. We will co-own the projects together. So unlike. Tradewind energy. We were able to own these projects and still do pristine sun still owns a minority share of a bunch of solar farms that are operating anyway. But then you go get a construction loan at really cheap financing. You know like four or five percent interest based on that 20 year contract

Alejandro: So I guess say you know in this case, 1 thing led to the next and eventually there is ah joint venture that they ended up and not working out the way that you had hope so what what what is what was this joint venture about and why. What? What? What? What? What? What happened there.

Troy Helming: Yeah, so that was ah years ago before this this latest 250000000 so in 2000, let’s see 2015. We had grown the company. We we got a $10000000 investment in 2011 from capital dynamics a swiss private equity fund. We spent the money wisely. Two years later and 13 we had $100000000 of assets on the balance sheet operating solar farms. We bought out capital dynamics paid them their 25% return and we basically owned all all the company and then we we we grew too fast. We had 80 employees actually more than that. And we had over $26000000 of debt that we took on to get the projects to the point where we could start construction. We didn’t have any equity and we tried to raise equity and it was challenging at that time and ah so we were about to be acquired by first solar, a huge solar company. And then oil prices crashed something we couldn’t control and I had no way of predicting this. But when oil prices crashed the stock price of first solar and many other publicly traded solar companies also crashed because for whatever reason wall street thinks that oil has something to do with electricity. It doesn’t but anyway affect it there. Stock so they fired their m and a team and our lender freaked out so they said you got to raise equity and you have ninety days to do it and so we’re like holy cow. So we hired an investment bank tried and tried and everyone just wanted to buy our projects. No one wanted to invest in the company because our projects were so valuable.

Troy Helming: Like we want to build a real business. We don’t want to just sell projects so we entered into a joint venture that was with a publicly traded company called renasola chinese solar manufacturer this is all public. Unfortunately yeah, they paid us the 10000000 at closing but didn’t they didn’t. Honor the agreement litigation eighteen months later we finally settled but eighteen months of litigation tied up all of our best projects so we had to fire almost everybody in the company and put everything on pause. It was a really dark time in my life. It was very challenging. But. Came out of it. Okay, and and now the company has rebounded and and we have over $5,000,000,000 of of solar farm projects in development and we’ve been profitable every year except for that one bad year.

Alejandro: And dealing with litigation I mean that’s a a nightmare you know for entrepreneurs because I mean not only you’re dealing with the uncertainty of building a company from the grownup. But now you have this.

Troy Helming: Tell.

Alejandro: You know, nonsense of of people that are that are you know, just trying to to put you out of Business. So How do you deal with with that you know, uncertainty too because I mean that’s like double double the whammy you know and it comes to the Uncertainty. So How how do you deal with that. What what have you learned about Juggling. You know, ah this type of uncertainties Tool. So.

Troy Helming: Yeah, so I’ve I’ve been doing yoga for thirty years but I had to do more yoga more time in nature. A lot of meditation to deal with just the emotional and mental toll. The litigation takes because it’s like hurry up and wait you know and it like I said it took eighteen months and then I started working out again. I kind of had a dad bod and my son saw the show american ninja warrior we got hooked on that I was like oh I could do that I was a gymnast in college been a rock climber off and on for years and so I essentially. Poured myself I was doing some consulting to pay the bills because we had no employees of pristine sun anymore and I had a little side project earth grade I’m sure we’ll talk about that but I spent a lot of time getting myself into amazing shape. You know, better shape than I was when I was a gymnast in college or you know a track athlete in high school. So um. Was invited to compete on the show american ninja warrior 4 times and and it really helped me with not only my you know physical energy but also my mental clarity and my ability to sleep better and process things better and work out my frustration and my anger. My rage about the litigation. You know I was feeling like I was being taken advantage of and all these people’s lives were affected so I poured that that frustration into working out and that really was a great outlet for me.

Alejandro: That’s amazing and obviously you know ah now the company today. Pristine Sonny is saying is is doing great. You know you’re there the chair you know of the of the company and then also you know, ah the valuation is is pretty is pretty high. You know we can say. Ah, they’re in the unicorn status. So I guess in your case you know. Obviously you don’t like to stay put. So um, you know you kept the drive going. You know that the entrepreneurial you know, but eagerness I would say and and and you ended up you know launching your latest baby which is earth grid. So um. What is earth great about.

Troy Helming: We invented or I invented plasma tunnel boring robots or trenching robots that essentially act like a light saber and it vaporizes or spalates or melts the rock and it can go up to 100 times faster and up to 10 times cheaper than conventional mechanical. Trenching drilling and boring technologies.

Alejandro: Wow And what is the process there of making money. What is the and what is the model.

Troy Helming: Yeah, so we have 2 products we call them boom and badass boom stands for ah, build on operate and maintain. That’s where we own the ditch or we own the tunnel and we lease out space or we charge a toll on all of the commodities flowing through our project badass. Stands for boring and drilling as a simple service. So for a customer wants to own their own ditch or their own tunnel. We just charge them per meter.

Alejandro: That’s incredible Now. In this case, you know like for the people that are listening to I mean how do you go about time management because you have all these different you know things going on at the same time you’re a chairman of pristine you are now you know leading Earth Grid. How do you go about managing yourself when it comes to time when it comes to like dealing with the crazy amount of emails that you’re probably dealing with the operations on on all fronts. What does that look like.

Troy Helming: Yeah I’ve become hyper efficient with everything I do you know I constantly spend time. Well I shouldn’t say constantly but every day I spend probably ten or fifteen minutes unsubscribing to emails and and you know delegating and and. Trying to be as efficient as possible I use G Suite Gmail and you know I I snooze things I set reminders I’m super efficient but time management in studying the lives of successful men and women throughout history. They all had 1 thing in common only one thing and that’s self-discipline. And so I’m very disciplined about being a father being a husband. My dad was a a workaholic I hardly knew him growing up a you know good relationship with him now. But so I didn’t want to I didn’t want to do that and so I I set aside I don’t work on Sundays I only work half a day on Saturdays and I set aside time to do emails I set aside time. To be a husband have date with date night every week with my wife. It’ll be 20 years married next year so you know these are these are the things that are important at least for me and work for me to to have balance in my life and then I’m also disciplined about with respect to where I sit on boards like pristine sun and I sit on a few other boards. A couple other and and I I only spend time on that on certain days. You know I set aside 30 or 45 minutes to to focus on that and so I don’t I don’t look at the emails or or anything for those companies until that designated time.

Alejandro: So How are you able for example to um because you know it’s very difficult to to control our mind you know and how it races you know and and being able to perhaps you know switch it like you were saying like being a father being a husband going on date nights. How can you compar a combat. How how do you just Grapp Whatever thought whatever thinking with whatever you’re you’re dealing with and just put it aside you know until you know you have the time that is allotted for for for that topic. So

Troy Helming: Yeah that’s a great question because you’re right thoughts pop into my head like. For instance I was at a happy hour with pristine sun and my team in 2016 when the idea for earth grade came to me and because Dominic one of our. Dominic Lopez 1 of our solar engineers was bragging to his girlfriend about he’s a former navy seal and he was bragging about how his seal team used to practice entering enemy ships underwater by cutting through the side of the ship with a plasma coating Torch he’s like ° take your arm off. We’re like dude you’re badass. Anyway, but then I popped up in the middle of the night and I was like wow plasma that could go underground go through rock probably and could stop thinking about it anyway. So when ideas come to you and they they do for all of us right? So for me what what works for me is I will send an email if I’m if I’m in you know, solar mode. I’ll send an email from my solar to the other company. My other email address and I have you know separate g suites and separate browsers and tabs and everything in Chrome. Um, and so I send the email to remind myself and then I can just let go I let go of the thought after I sent the email. Um, because it’s there and it’s sitting in the inbox. So then when it comes time for me to look at emails for that particular company I can process it right? So anyway that that’s how I do it.

Alejandro: Now talking about ideas here because basically Earth Grid. You know went from just being a hobby to something Meaningful. So at what point do you kind of like realize hey I think that maybe I need to. Allocate more time to this. What does that look like when you’re like validating and vetting. You know, hobbies that you know actually could transform into a business.

Troy Helming: But. Right? So I built the first prototype in 2017 after you know the idea again couldn’t stop thinking about this using plasma to go through rocks to solve the you know the bad infrastructure in the United States and the problem with overhead power lines causing fires and killing people and you know going down and. Ice storms and tornadoes and hurricanes and everything and not only does our power go out but our internet goes out because everything is above ground in the Us where in Europe it’s 80% underground. We are only 8% underground here in the us so 10 times worse anyway, so for me, it was gosh. I got to hire a feasibility hire an engineering firm did a feasibility study. They came back said yes, it’ll work 2 no one is doing this 3 you can bore at speeds of one kilometer per day which is crazy fast and four here’s your operating cost and I ran the math because I’ve built hundreds of tunnels and trenches over the years for solar and wind farms I was like this this. Looks like it could be either a billion dollar company or a nothing company I just don’t know if it’s gonna work and so I was like all right I’m willing to put some of my own net worth into building a prototype and so I did that in 2017 started testing in two thousand and eighteen eighteen didn’t even tell my wife.

Troy Helming: Didn’t hardly tell anybody there was a small team of engineers that I identified and and we built a little prototype and it punched a hole through a big boulder of granite I was like yeah it worked awesome and so anyway. That’s when I realized hey we have something here started filing patents and and then realized this this could be a heck of a company.

Alejandro: That’s amazing. So um, so what does say it thing look like when you end up turning a corner here. You know what was that moment where you know you are like Wow I think that they that we’re into something big here.

Troy Helming: When I started talking to potential customers and realized the demand was very high and I didn’t I didn’t believe our cost structure because it was so much cheaper like you know, eighty seventy eighty ninety percent cheaper I was like that can’t be right? But as we did more and more testing I realized it was so. I was an early employee of of Petra used to be known as arkbit sold my first patent to them and and earth grid though though was formed in 2016 at the time I was still running my solar company. We were just coming out of the the litigation and rebuilding the company and it was very emotionally draining I didn’t have. The stomach to to be the Ceo again of of ah of 2 companies at once while I was still cleaning up the you know the very emotionally draining mess there at Pristine Sun anyway but without going in any you know too much detail there i’m. Earth grid sold its first patent to Petra now earthggrade has its own patents separate companies Petra’s not doing plasma they’re using a different process and I wish them the best but to answer your question. It was it was when I knew the tech worked and I knew the demand was there and I knew that the economics were there. The margins. Even worst case scenario I felt like the margins would be 50 to 50 to 80% or maybe above 100% and so I was like all right? We have a we have a business here. We got to invest in this and raise raise some outside capital.

Alejandro: So let’s say and and and in terms of racing Capital I mean how much capital have you guys raised to date for the business.

Troy Helming: 25 little over 25,000,000 of of equity plus some debt capital and on top of that we have a crowdfunding campaign on on net capital that’s going well because I want to democratize the ownership of utilities and infrastructure. So we’re making it available people can invest as little as a hundred dollars on on the crowdfunding platform.

Alejandro: Nice. So obviously you know when it comes to investments. You know it’s saying it has to do with vision with selling the vision to know and getting people aligned with that. So I guess imagine if you were to go to sleep tonight Troy and you wake up in a world where the vision of earthgrade is fully realized what does that world look like.

Troy Helming: That world looks like we’ve built an underground supergrid across North America and then we’ve started to connect the continents by putting our tunnels underneath say the atlantic ocean from Northern Canada to the short hop over to Greenland another short hop to Iceland to the faroe islands into the yeah uk and then mainland europe and then eventually connecting to the Middle East North Africa Asia Australia South America you name it. That’s what I see us doing and in fact, we signed a binding. And Mou from a large institutional investor last month that’s going to invest and this is going to sound crazy coming out of my mouth twenty seven billion of commitment in a joint venture. And I my eyes wide open this time. It’s going to be a good joint. Venture. We’re taking our time to make sure we have really good lawyers negotiating it. but but yeah that’s going going to fund 100% of the construction cost of twenty four Thousand Kilometers of underground tunnels and trenches across North America

Alejandro: My God that sounds wild. So um, imagine you know, let’s talk about the past now imagine I put you into a time machine and I bring you back in time to that moment where you were working at at and T and figuring out hey I want to do something on my own now. Let’s say you were able to have a chat you know, sit down your.

Troy Helming: Um I.

Alejandro: Younger saw that younger Troy and have the opportunity of giving that younger Troy one piece of advice before launching a company. What would I be on a why given what you know now.

Troy Helming: Well that younger Troy was kind of a cocky arrogant son of a bitch to be honest with you. You know I I did really well in in college at at and t in college I was captain of my yele eating squad and we won the national championship on Espn and I was all american and anyway. So I would tell myself to you know that hey look you’re going to get your nose bloodied. You’re going to make a number of mistakes so you need to be more patient and you need to recognize your limitations and not just assume that you can make anything work. You need to be more more patient and more careful. About the decisions you make and the business risks that you take.

Alejandro: Nice now for the people that are listening Troy that will love to reach out and say hi. What is the best way for them to do so.

Troy Helming: My handle on social media is solar ninja troy so on Facebook Instagram Twitter Linkedin and so forth feel free to connect with me on Linkedin or you can send me an email to troy@earthgrid. I o for input output.

Alejandro: Amazing! Well hey, easy enough. Well Troy thank you so much for being on the deal maker show today. It has been an honor to have you with us.

Troy Helming: Thank you so much for having me alejandro.

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