Tom Greenwood On Selling His Fintech Company For $200 Million And Now Raising $83.5 Million To Send Money Anywhere In Real Time

Tom Greenwood’s journey from the picturesque beaches of Australia to the epicenter of London’s fintech scene is a testament to the global nature of entrepreneurship. Raised in Wellington, New Zealand, Tom’s roots in the financial world began at ANZ Bank in Melbourne.

Tom’s latest startup, Volt, has attracted funding from top-tier investors like Augmentum Fintech, EQT Ventures, Titan Capital, and IVP.

In this episode, you will learn:

• A journey from Australia to London exemplifies the global nature of fintech entrepreneurship.
• Strategic headhunting and talent acquisition were pivotal in establishing market leadership for AFEX.
• IFX’s transformation into an e-money institution marked a turning point in the fintech landscape.
• Volt’s innovative platform harmonizes global real-time account payment systems, driving the future of payments.
• Venture into venture capital navigated challenges, highlighting the importance of adaptability.
• The integration of regulated stablecoins and central bank digital currencies represents the next frontier for Volt.
• Advice for aspiring entrepreneurs emphasizes simplicity, customer-centricity, and unwavering self-belief in pursuit of fintech success.

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About Tom Greenwood:

Tom Greenwood is the Founder & Chief Executive Officer at Volt. The Company is a technology developer and product innovator with a focus on new-generation real-time payments infrastructure and open banking.

He is responsible for managing strategic relationships, developing strategy and planning, and driving international expansion.

Tom previously founded IFX Payments in 2005, a multi-billion dollar turnover fintech business operating across Europe and the Middle East.

Connect with Tom Greenwood:

• Linkedin
• Crunchbase
• FinTech
• FlashIntel

Read the Full Transcription of the Interview:

Alejandro Cremades: Already hello everyone and welcome to the dealmakerr show. So today. We have a really exciting founder. You know we’re gonna be talking about the building scaling. You know, financing. You know you end exiting you know some of the good stuff that that we like to hear and the founder today is quite inspiring. So I think that you’re all goingnna really enjoy the conversation. And then also his journey as an entrepreneur entrepreneur so without farther ado let’s welcome our guests today Tom Greenwood welcome to the show. So I’m sure you will I’m sure you will so so you us like give us a walk through memory lane here you were raised in New Zealand Australia so

Tom Greenwood: Um, hey Andra how are you I hope I can live up to the height. Um.

Alejandro Cremades: How was life growing up.

Tom Greenwood: Yeah, it was great. So I was raised in Wellington in New Zealand and did my junior school education and there my family then moved to Australia my father was involved in the. Sunrise era of the computing industry in the 80 s and um so he he used to travel quite a bit for work. So I did my senior school in tertiary education in Melbourne. So yeah I grew up on the beach surfing on the weekends and school holidays and. Yeah I mean Australia is a great place so had a lot of fun. But yeah, came across to London in 2002 so ah, initially just ah Australia’ ‘ is a long way from the rest of the world and um.

Alejandro Cremades: So what? what brought you to lamon what brought you to London originally.

Tom Greenwood: It’s a pretty well-trodden path for aussies to come across to London to kind of see europe and to you know travel around a bit. Um, so I was only ever planning on being here for a year or 2 but twenty years later I’m here I’ve got british houses british wife british kids. So. Something went wrong there somewhere and I never ended up leaving but so no I love it here and obviously it’s really central to the work that I do um and british in every way these days other than the accent which is still pretty strongly. Australia.

Alejandro Cremades: So let’s say let’s talk about getting into the um, professional side of things you know because your first role you know was pretty much in sales I mean obviously you know in your case you studied you know in um, in swissborn and what you did is business and marketing. But.

Tom Greenwood: Now you.

Alejandro Cremades: You know the first gig that you did was same in sales. So tell us about the the early years in your professional career.

Tom Greenwood: Yeah, my first job in financial services was with Anz bank in Melbourne and I was in a tellcells role there just selling pretty typical banking products. Um, you know, accounts and loans and. Ah, that sort of stuff I think my first meaningful role not that it wasn’t meaningful but my first more senior role. Let’s say in financial services was when I was in London and I was approached by an american business called afax. Or associated for an exchange that had been established in California since I think 1979? um and they were a team of about 35 people across the us that um I was approached and asked to be their founding employee for Europe um, and to establish as I guess effective head of sales. Um. Their first european office here in London um, and we did that well and built up the team I then became the gm of europe in that role. Um and we executed on that really well so afax was in the business of treasury management and. Risk mitigation with respect to currency fluctuations working with airlines that might be hedging oil prices or pharmaceutical companies that are doing a lot of important exports or other businesses that are involved in cross-border trade and putting.

Tom Greenwood: Fx strategies in place with their triggerers and with their financial leaders to make sure that that risk is managed from um, an effective standpoint so that was a couple of years and I was then ah ah.

Alejandro Cremades: And what what 1 thing there real quick Tom is because as you were talking about the strategy and execution. One of the things that you did there that they worked out pretty well was they hit hunting strategy so tell us about what you did there with that.

Tom Greenwood: Um.

Tom Greenwood: Yeah, well this is back in two thousand and three four and the the concept of headhunting at that point in time wasn’t anywhere near as prevalent as it is today and in fact, when I I remember when I first heard about it I was like oh that’s interesting so you can just go and hunt the best people in the industry. Um. And that that made a lot of sense to me so I was working with a consultant. Um who had approached me with a strategy and I thought it was a great idea. Um, and so yeah, we were as as I can recall. It was a long time ago, right? It was twenty years ago so I don’t want to? um.

Alejandro Cremades: No.

Tom Greenwood: Make any false claims. But what? what? I do remember feeling was oh, that’s a news strategy I’ve never heard of that before and we were doing it. Nobody else was and it was. It was really effective and we succeeded in attracting the best of the best from our competitors um to our business and. Aexen became a market leader off the back of that. Um, so I’m not by any means saying I was the first or only person to do that at that point in time but I do remember feeling at the time that what we were doing was different and it certainly wasn’t commonplace. Um, so yeah, that was a successful. Strategy and execution for that business at that time he.

Alejandro Cremades: and then 2005 comes along and that’s when ah, basically on the entrepreneur entrepreneurial side of things you know comes knocking. You know what happened there with ifx which was your first venture.

Tom Greenwood: Um, you know I guess being the first man in the door at aexx. Um, although it wasn’t my business and it wasn’t my baby in that respect I was building it from the ground up and I had done that obviously with good leaders and.

Alejandro Cremades: Oh.

Tom Greenwood: Mentors around me um, who had more experience than I did but I had kind of done it you know and we built the team up to thirty five forty people as I recall. Um and I thought well hey that was cool. Um, why don’t I do it for myself and so yeah, that’s when afax gave way to. The first company that I founded which is called ifx now ifx payments and we were following a similar path to ax before us which was infx and treasury management at least initially.

Alejandro Cremades: Now one of the things that they that happened there is that you were able to recognize embedded finance. Why would you say that it was so transformative to the business I mean obviously you know we got we got to remember that you pushed this from 2005 to 2018 and

Tom Greenwood: Willing.

Alejandro Cremades: And back then Fintech was not even a thing. So why? how? how was it like you know at that point and how were you able to recognize you know, embedded finance.

Tom Greenwood: As you do.

Tom Greenwood: Yeah, well, you’re given my edge away a little bit here. Yeah I predate fintech which is I guess something I should be proud of but not necessarily um, but yeah, no 2005 fintech didn’t even exist. Um, so we were very much in the Fx and treasury space. It was. 13 or 2014 um, where ah iffx became one of the first e- moneyney institutions to ever be regulated in Europe um, and as an e-money license holder in Europe you’re able to issue payment accounts and bank accounts and ah. I saw a real opportunity there to build a new product which is really become um, you know it really quite transformed eye affects his business model and is responsible for a very high proportion of their revenue and and payments volume today. Um. And I was actually on a flight from Dubai to London and I was flying up from Australia so I had slept on the first Leg. Ah between Sydney and Dubai and it was the middle of the night. Everyone was asleep in the cabin and I was. Ah, wide awake of course because I was traveling through time zones and um I was chatting on skype with ah a good friend of mine and someone that I’ve worked with at I effects. Um and we kind of during that chat we were bouncing a few ideas back and forth.

Tom Greenwood: You know, hang on if you can build a payments Api and you can build an fx api and then you can issue bank accounts if you put those things together doesn’t that become a kind of a form of payments bank and it was literally as I was working off the flights that I called my banker. Ah, barcleyy’s at the time to just validate what we had kind of pieced together in my mind and um, this chap said yeah we can do that that was when the whole kind of solution started to piece together and I’m like well okay, that’s interesting. You know you can kind of piece payments effects. And banking and and a whole lot of automation together into one platform and that’s down to be transformative. You know, um, and so yeah, that’s I guess where my skills are probably pretty strong when it comes to kind of um I’m both commercial but I’m also very strong on the on the product side and. Kind of solutioning and putting things together in a logical framework and order that’s I think but being one of the foundations of my success. Yeah, and that’s what’s ah that’s what we did there and it led to good things.

Alejandro Cremades: I mean I mean in in in in that in that case. Yeah I mean you’re ah you’re actually you know since you’re aud to That. You’re very commercial but then also very strong when it comes to product strategy I mean. How do you?? How do you think typically about product and how do you blend it with a strategy.

Tom Greenwood: Um, yeah.

Tom Greenwood: Um, well it usually starts with a very simple idea. Um, if I could use fault as an example I was the chief operating officer of ifx at the time at pst 2 or the payment services directive to in Europe was being published and. Um, issued and so I was reviewing psd 2 from the perspective of um regulatory compliance in my role at ifx as the chief operating officer there. Um, and in reading about it I read about open banking payments and.

Tom Greenwood: I read about real-time payments and I’m like well that’s got to be transformative like if we are working with um, a card network or payment scheme that has been around for many many years and it takes many days and there’s many intermediaries involved in getting money from 1 place to another. Um, this like this idea of an api call into an account-based payment instrument so that you can just move money in real time directly from one bank account to whom it is. You’re wanting to send it I guess the thought was.

Tom Greenwood: If that had been possible when they were designing the visa mastercard schemes in 1950 s and 1960 s isn’t that the way that payments should always have been like why? Why are we paying with these archaic instruments that takes 3 4 five days for money to get to its destination. It involves. 4 5 or 6 intermediaries in getting there when in seconds you can move money from account to account so that was just simple embryonic thought you know around vault and obviously open banking and the rise of real-time payments today is very prevalent and. Um, with fed now launching in the us with clearinghouse. Ah Rtp but other examples of pics in Brazil the unified payment its face in India Open banking in Europe there are 74 countries around the world now rolling this out. But for me back in 17 when I was reading about this. It wasn’t prevalent then it was just this thought of That’s that’s got to be disruptive and it really just started there and then from there I tend to go very deep in terms of feasibility. The what ifs the how why is this important? What are we? what? what problem are we solving and who are we solving it for you know. Um, so I did that for a good few months maybe a year um and then from that I couldn’t let go the ideas so decided to leave eye x to set it up.

Alejandro Cremades: And before before that you know quickly I mean I fix. Actually you guys decided to grow that organically you know for for so many years I Guess what drove that Decision. You know the company ended up being acquired but you know not going you know with external money. Ah obviously adds as Well. A certain amount of layer of risk because you’re like walking on a thin land line.

Tom Greenwood: Um, yeah, well it started with me and a chuck called Nick Williams my co-founder sitting in a barn that is father owns about thirty miles outside of London on charlo’s farm and um, we got a couple of.

Alejandro Cremades: Um.

Tom Greenwood: Laptop computers and a couple of phones and um, we just got on the phone and started selling. Um it was. It was truly organic and and very humble beginnings to the business. Um, we had a feed of of ah you know Bloomberg television from. His parents’ house and at lunchtime when his mum would watch Coronations Street we’d be on. We’d be on calls and coronation street would come on. You know so it was ah it was very very authentic. The way we started and we we managed to build a a successful business and and good profitability and we we use that profitability to continue to grow the company. Um, the company now turns over more than $10000000000 a year. It operates in 6 or 7 countries across Europe and the Middle East um and is a success story but we grew that business organically and using our own money over a long period of time we sold the business a couple of years ago for a couple hundred million dollars and had a good exit. Um, and yeah, very happy with the outcome there. But um, yeah, it was ah it was. It was very much a grassroots journey and I think there’s a lot of lessons from that that I learned um you know coming from that sort of background into. The role that I’m now in which is see or the reasonably high or growing profile fintech in Europe um, which is backed by some big vcs. It’s it’s been a steep learning cur for me over the last three years you know, but there’s been a lot of things that I havenn’t expected and.

Tom Greenwood: Um, a different way of operating to to to how it was before it ix but I’ve embraced it and enjoyed it and enjoyed it. But yeah, it’s certainly very different to building it from from the organic place that ix came from.

Alejandro Cremades: And let’s let’s talk about that for for for for a little bit here. So So why you were you know, basically ah part of the Ifx you know team I mean you were a founder there. You guys were pushing it for so long. Ultimately, the ad L Vault a comes knocking and I’m sure it was not an easy. Um, you know, um. Decision to make you know which was to leave the company that you had founded and then to start something new and and and venture into the unknown. Once again, So How was that decision. Um, that thought process How did that come along and and at what point did it did it become.

Tom Greenwood: Are.

Alejandro Cremades: So real to you and so clear that you had to leave to to go after this new company.

Tom Greenwood: um yeah um I think I was ready you know I’d been in the business for 15 years and um I was excited to get back to the cut and thrust of startup life and to to really take on a new challenge. But.

Tom Greenwood: Moreover it was about the potential of the opportunity that vault represented to disrupt. You know visa maskcard to disrupt the legacy payment infrastructure that is you know, remarkable and hugely impressive. What visa maskcard have built and. You know I have nothing but admiration and respect for the teams and for those businesses and what they’ve done but you can’t get away from the fact that the technology was designed in the 1950 s and sixty s and first implemented in the 1960 s and then 2023 24 it is fundamentally the same. As it was when the first us bank launched a charge card 1 66 it is the same architecture and there’s the same rails effectively that those card payments run across and. What we are witnessing with the rise of real-time payments is those tectonic plate shifting and the rise of a new paradigm in real-time direct account to account payments which is unquestionably in my mind. The future of how money moves and um vault is taking on that challenge right? and you know we are. Very alive to the challenge and to the mountain that we have set ourselves out to climb. But we’ve um, we’re excited by it and we’re looking forward to the next challenge and we’re learning every day and we’re growing as a team and growing as individuals and um, having fun so far so while sex continues will keep on going.

Alejandro Cremades: So for the people that are listening to get it. What ended up being the business model of volt. How do you guys make money.

Tom Greenwood: Um, so we are a um, we are concerned with real time value exchange and the future for how many moves and um that is represented by a collection of domestic.

Tom Greenwood: Real-time accounts account payment infrastructures around the world. So where historically visa mastercard have provided a single platform and and a proprietary network which is centrally controlled and privately owned governments and central banks around the world increasingly. Have a sovereign perspective with respect to payments with all due respect to visa maskcard they no longer want to be reliant on an external platform or to an american infrastructure. They consider payments to be integral to their economies and to their societies and they want a next gen payment system that is. Um, owned and operated um in their markets. So that’s why you see picks in Brazil which is an outstanding success which is a brazilian next gen real-time payment platform owned by Brazil built for Brazil to operate in Brazil the same applies with upi in India the same applies with what the fed are doing in America currently. Fed now or the cleaning house with um, the ah rtp solution open banking in Europe and so one of the challenges that we saw there is well if real-time payments does represent the future of payments. No longer is there a single proprietary network and um.

Tom Greenwood: All of these payment systems are inherently domestic and therefore on a global scale. They are fragmented and that fragmentation as we see it is both a challenge random opportunity and so what we are building at vault is we are harmonizing next gen real-time accounts account payment systems to a single infrastructure. So a single point of access into a single protocol to make them accessible and interoperable and by harmonizing these networks together. We deliver a network of networks that is the first or one of the world’s first global real-time payments infrastructures. So how do we make money. Um, the biggest merchants and the biggest businesses you know globally are all very excited about or the ones that I speak to anyway are all very excited about the rise of this next generation payment infrastructure and with fault through a single integration. You’re once and done. Ah, you can connect once and then you can communicate with the world of real-time payments around the world. So we have a number of go-to-market strategies. We speak directly to the largest enterprise merchants in the world of course. But our main revenue drive or go-to-market strategy is by way of partners.

Tom Greenwood: So We work with world pay the world’s largest Merchant Aquara We are their partner for real-time payments in open banking around the world. We work with worldline. Um and we work with um, many other psps or technical gateways. Um, they white labelbel our solution effectively to to then be able to offer real-time account account payments to their underlying merchants. Um, we also work with the shopping cart. So we’re on Shopify wocommerce. Um, but yeah, ah, real-time payments is going to increasingly take share from vis-a Mas garden. Harmonizing and operationalizing that infrastructure at scale is what we’ve set ourselves to do.

Alejandro Cremades: So thinking about this as a scale I mean with your previous company with eye effects. You guys. You know, really didn’t raise much I mean it was pretty much organic the way that you go that you went about it Why with Vault did you decide? why? why? why? then with Volt why then with bold did you decide to raise money.

Tom Greenwood: Completely. Yeah.

Tom Greenwood: Because the opportunity for real-time payments is now you know and you’ve got ah you’ve got to be able to move fast enough to capture the market opportunity whereas if you’re relying on your own growth and profitability and in order to scale. Um, you’re simply just not going to be able to move fast enough. Um, there is a market opportunity today which is present today and you’ve got to um yeah, as I said move fast enough to capture it.

Alejandro Cremades: So how much capital have you guys raised to date for bolt.

Tom Greenwood: Um, um, eighty three and a half million dollars sit far. We closed our series b about three or four months ago which was led by ivp significant venture firm from the valley in San Francisco um and yeah, um. Prior to that it was our series a led by eut which we closed I think in June of 2021? Um, but we’ve got other partners in commerce ventures augmentum fintech and fuel ventures. Also.

Alejandro Cremades: And what was the journey like of raising you know those financing rush because obviously it was your first time you know getting out there and getting external people. So how did you go about it and how did you make sure that you did it right.

Tom Greenwood: A.

Tom Greenwood: Yeah, it was interesting. You know because it was my first entry into the land of venture capital and I joined at a pretty interesting time for venture capital itself. You know and 202021 there was an oversupply of liquidity in the market and prices were one hundred x. You know? so when we got to the series a and we were not quite pre-revenue but not not farther off and we were getting a you know $90000000 valuation at that point that wasn’t coming from my background you can imagine that was a bit of an eyebrow raiser for me I mean one that I liked obviously. Um, because it gave us a capital to really fuel our growth but there was ah a crazy time for ventures and there was a crazy time for valuations and that’s right when I was getting started so that was ah that was a pretty interesting journey. Um, of course during the journey of my series. A. We went from. You know a narrative of spend spend spend. Let’s grow. Let’s grow. Let’s grow to the market kind of falling in a heap and everyone pulling the brakes on and needing to slow down again. So we’ve had to be adaptable, but you know I’ve been working with ah Jordan Lawrence and Stephen Foat who of my co-founders on this one. Um, for four four and a half years now and um I think you know we’ve we’ve got ah we’ve got a great team as founders. We keep each other honest and we challenge one another but we we also have a very strong culture across the organization where that should not let’s been between founders but it should be between.

Tom Greenwood: All people within the organization and yeah I mean we we don’t have all the answers we’re getting more things right than we’re getting wrong at the moment and um, it’s a 1 step at a time thing like the transformation of this payments infrastructure is not going to be a 3 or 4 year journey. It’s a marathon not a sprint and we’re very early on. So there’s a long way to go. But we’re happy so far.

Alejandro Cremades: And in your case I mean you guys you know and we’re talking about people here. We’re talking about investors you know, just saying to expand on this I mean you guys have about one hundred and eighty people now you’re looking to add another 60 I guess the question here that comes to mind is when you’re growing so quickly. How do you go about building processes. So that the things don’t break.

Tom Greenwood: Yeah, it’s a really good question. Um I think you know we we? Yeah we two years ago I think it was were a team of 28 or 30 people. Um, so there’s a couple of lessons in this for me in that at each kind of stage. The company feels different and it moves from stage to stage quite quickly when you’re scaling like we are um every six months or so you know I’ve got to reflect and be very honest with myself about what is my role for the company now we’re 90 people. Is it the same as my role was for the company when we were 30 people the answer to that question is no, you know and and the the the same question then occurs to you at 150 people. Um, you know is my role the same and is my contribution. What the company needs from me as a leader and its Ceo is at the same. 150 of people as it was for many people so having that very honest conversation with yourself. But also with your investment partners and learning from them. Um, and you know growing as an individual as the company grows has been my personal challenge and you know part of the journey that I’ve been working through but. As a company. Um you know the larger it gets. There’s a sense in which it becomes less about me or any individual within the business. It’s less about the entrepreneur and it’s more about you know the structures and the teams and the processes that you build so that the organization can scale effectively.

Tom Greenwood: Um, you can’t be on every call. You can’t be in every interview process nor is it appropriate or scalable that you should be so it’s about building you know quality into processes and being much more structured in your approach and there’s some of the growing pains that we’re going through right now. Um. And I use that term loosely growing pains. But it’s just a maturing and a broadening of the foundations of the business so that you can build a taller tower you know and it’s no longer about me or any 1 individual in the team. It’s it’s much more about the company and its its structures and being really thoughtful about. Um, how that all kind of comes together. Um, but yeah, that’s ah, that’s all part of the fun.

Alejandro Cremades: And as you’re thinking about team thinking about investors too I mean we got to think about vision. So as we’re thinking about vision here. Let’s say you were to go to sleep tonight Tom and you wake up in a world where the vision of vault is fully realized what does that world look like.

Tom Greenwood: Ah, ah, dude this is a loaded question. Um, yeah I think I think it’s I think it’s equally interesting to see what’s happening with regulation around stablecoins and there’s a lot of. Discussion taking place around central bank digital currencies. Um, one thing that we’re less public about at the moment is that you know volt’s ambitions are beyond open banking and you know we feel like at the moment with real-time accounts and account payments that we’re addressing the addressable. Um, but I’m equally interested in what’s happening with stablecoins and cbdcs and um, there is a new dawn coming for crypto. It seems where there will be a new rubber stamped and regulated. Ah, stable coin markets. Um, you’ve seen the moves of jp Morgan and city in the last couple of weeks launching their crypto infrastructure and going back to something that I said earlier if volult is concerned with real-time value exchange and the future of how money moves we must be network agnostic right. And so we are connecting the world of real-time accounts for account payments at the moment in fiat. Um, but does that involve potentially the integration of regulated stablecoins or Cbdcs in due course. Um.

Tom Greenwood: I can’t see why not but at the same time I’m not making any promises but the the way things are shaping the future of payments and the future of how money moves appears to be shaking as some collaboration or combination between correspondent banking and ah Rtp networks. Together with regulated stablecos together with Cbdcs how that shapes and how that comes together I don’t think anybody knows and I think if someone is saying that they do know I would um, challenge them. But um, it’s absolutely a transformative time to be in payments visa and master card. Served us very well over the last seventy years but their technology is unable to affect real-time value exchange and you know the world of payments is changing how payments have been over the last seventy years it’s going to be extremely different to how we understand and see them 15 years from now. So. It’s a great time to be alive. It’s an exciting time to be part of it. Um, but yeah, there’s ah, there’s a lot of change coming up ahead and what what we want to do is stay open-minded and say agile and um, be really honest about where the opportunities are and make sure that we’re um, taking on the right challenges and. Um, you know, working together to deliver great outcomes.

Alejandro Cremades: So we’re talking about the future here Tom so I want to talk all the past now and do so with a lens of reflection. Let’s say I was to put you into a time machine and I bring you back to 2005 to that moment where you were thinking about making the jump. You know, taking the leap of faith from ax and you know you perhaps at this point you didn’t even know that it will become ifx but let’s say you had the opportunity of having a sit down you know with that younger son with that younger Tom and you were able to give that younger Tom one piece of advice. Before launching a business. What would that be and why given what you know now.

Tom Greenwood: Such a good question. Um I wish you’d give me a heads up about these things I so it’s time to think about it. Um I think the thing that is most important is to surround yourself with really smart people. Um, there’s that old adage if you’re the smartest person in the room you’re in the wrong room I believe that and to be really thoughtful and pragmatic about what you’re doing and why what problems are you solving who are you solving for and and why is that important. Um. Young entrepreneurs are often trying to solve very complex problems in their minds. Most businesses that are remarkable start from pretty simple concepts and you’ve always got to keep your customer in the center of your mind. Um, and it’s not complexity that is the key. Most solutions I find or business that I’ve been part of it’s it’s much more simplicity and customcentricity. So don’t overcomplicate it be thoughtful, be pragmatic. Make sure you get the right advice and then with conviction go for it right? If you don’t believe in yourself. Nobody else is going to believe in you back yourself and you know jump in and get stuck in. Um I don’t know if that’s 1 bit of advice or 10 bits of advice. But yeah I guess that’s kind of the speech that I probably would have given to my younger self if I had the opportunity to be Michael J Fox and go back in time.

Alejandro Cremades: That’s very very profound Tom so now for the people that are listening that will love to reach out and say hi. What is the best way for them to do so.

Tom Greenwood: Um, Linkedin or my email address is Tom at Boltt that I owe um, so yeah, feel free to reach out any time.

Alejandro Cremades: Amazing, well easy novel hey Tom thank you so much for being with the deal maker show today. It has been an honor to have you with us.

Tom Greenwood: Thanks for having me man good. See you.

*****

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