Sanjay Swamy On Selling His Last Companies To Twitter And RazorPay And Now Managing An India-Focused $120 Million VC Fund

In a recent episode of the Dealmakers’ Podcast, Sanjay Swamy, a seasoned entrepreneur and venture capitalist, shared his remarkable journey from Bangalore to the bustling metropolis it is today.

With over two decades of experience in technology and startups, his insights offer invaluable lessons for aspiring entrepreneurs. Here, we delve into the key takeaways from his podcast.

His VC-driven fund, Prime Ventures, invested in startups like Quizizz, MyGate, Dozee, PlanetSpark, and WheelsEye.

In this episode, you will learn:

• A journey that underscores the power of audacious dreams and the willingness to take calculated risks, even in the face of uncertainty.
• Founder-led companies have a unique capacity to drive innovation, breaking free from conventional hierarchies and nurturing a culture of excellence.
• Pivotal role in the Aadhaar initiative showcases the potential of government-driven digital transformation, providing a foundation for countless digital services in India.
• Emphasis on empathy for founders shines through, emphasizing the importance of supporting and understanding their unique journeys.
• The distinction between valuation and enduring value is a critical consideration for entrepreneurs, highlighting the significance of building sustainable, fundamentally strong businesses.
• The operating model of Prime Ventures, led by Sanjay and his partners, demonstrates the value of an operator-centric approach, where investors actively engage with startups, providing hands-on guidance beyond financial support.
• A journey marked by persistence and adaptability serves as a powerful reminder that staying the course, even in the face of challenges, can lead to transformative outcomes.

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About Sanjay Swamy:

Sanjay loves his wacky sense of humor ‐ entrepreneurs who work with Prime must deal with a handful of self‐graded B‐grade puns!

Sanjay is well known for his founding role at ZipDial (now acquired by Twitter) and his role at mChek, the path-breaking startup in secure payments.

Sanjay has trodden the path of an entrepreneur all through his career. After completing his bachelor’s degree in engineering, Sanjay headed to Paris, where he earned his Master’s degree.

After a stint at Xerox PARC in Palo Alto, Sanjay embarked on a journey to build world-class teams and products that took him through startups like Ketera and Portal Software, mChek, Zipdial & Ezetap, which he co‐founded in 2010.

An active community member, Sanjay is a Rotarian and a charter member of TiE, a volunteer at iSPIRT, and organizes the Fintech Panel at the Nasscom Product Conclave.

He also played a prominent role in the UIDAI project under the leadership of Nandan Nilekani. He is a frequent speaker and evangelist in the entrepreneurship and payments circuits in the country.

Sanjay loves to blog ‐ anything you say that is halfway intelligent will turn into a subject for his blog.

Connect with Sanjay Swamy:

• Bloomberg
• SignalHire
• PitchBook
• LinkedIn

Read the Full Transcription of the Interview:

Alejandro Cremades: Alrighty hello everyone and welcome to the dealmakerr show. So do today we have ah an incredible founder. You know founder also investor but he definitely identifies himself as being on the entrepreneurs side of the table but without further ado I mean today really we’re gonna be. Learning a lot about building financing exiting investing pattern recognition. We’re going to be talking about. Basically why companies die we’re going to be talking about why nothing is as good or so or as bad as it appears or basically why you shouldn’t look at valuation. As a measure of success amongst many many things. So again, let’s welcome our guest today Sanjay Swammi welcome to the show I so originally from India you grew up there so give us a walkthrough memory lane. How was life growing up there.

Sanjay Swamy: Thank you Alexandro Thanks for having me here.

Sanjay Swamy: Um, yeah, well I’m relatively old but grew up in India in the 70 s and eighty s did my undergrad here in Bangalore very exciting time. Um, very chilled out place now I’m back here after 25 years ah and it is a very different bustling metropolis today. But um India was a fairly you know I would say simple place to be ah earlier on bangalore happens to be a city with great weather and which is why a lot of the influx has happened in the city over the years did my undergrad went to France for a couple of years then to the us for 16 years actually and then came back to India in 2003 and I’ve been here for the last twenty years so that’s a very quick snapshot.

Alejandro Cremades: Um, and before before and that’s a really quick snapshot I just want to now do a little of a Zoom in you know in that snapshot you know, eventually as you were saying you went to France there you studied. I believe it was avionics and control systems engineering I mean that was your first masters. Ah, and then you decided to come to the us and do another master’s degree in aeronnatics and flight control systems. Why.

Sanjay Swamy: Um, right correct.

Alejandro Cremades: 2 masters I mean 1 master seems like enough. So why 2 masters. Yeah.

Sanjay Swamy: Yeah, well I was actually planning to do a Ph D or aiming to do a Ph D Um wasn’t successful in the attempt and then decided to just do another masters and start working I realized over that period of time that I am much more of a. People person and not so much of a researcher myself and so as a part of that I sort of decided to get a masters and work in the industry and I always worked in sales marketing Biz Dev roles in technology Companies. So Even there was much more of a people related role than um. I would say a product development role.

Alejandro Cremades: Yeah, because you were you studied Obviously the engineering you know side of things and then you know it was say marketing. What really got you going So what got you? you know? so um, interested in marketing.

Sanjay Swamy: Um, and.

Sanjay Swamy: I think I enjoyed applications of technology right? and and to this day even as a venture capitalist I don’t think my work has changed at all I look at how technology can solve big problems and I like to. Understand those I like to explain those to people I like to see how it can disrupt. You know, big problems with you know through technology and today my role is finding people that are trying to do that and backing them but earlier I used to be in sales and marketing that I was also still. Taking these amazing technology solutions that we built in the software world and selling it to people in the automotive industry selling it to people in the aerospace industry and as you know today all of these are flying computers right? and I was at the early days of those developments I wouldn’t call them inventions but that was the transition of something that was very mechanical becoming much more of a software device right? And today if you look at a test light say a mobile computer one could call it right? So um. Was always fascinated by how software technology or you know software plus some hardware device iot sensors could transform something which was a whether it was a business process or a machine or a device and in the early days my role was always evangelizing such.

Sanjay Swamy: Ah, things you know so marketing is probably ah um, sort of a broad term but was really more evangelization of new concepts and today as a venture capitalist in in between of course I was an entrepreneur as well. But I was always doing the same thing of saying taking something disruptive. And evangelizing it into the world.

Alejandro Cremades: So eventually you moved back to India back in 2003 but 11 years in Silicon Valley is many many years. So what were what were some of the biggest lessons that you got from the culture. The mindset you know the way of building and scaling companies.

Sanjay Swamy: Um, and then.

Alejandro Cremades: Over the course of those 11 years if you had to maybe like capture them into 3 What would you say were the 3 things that you took away with you.

Sanjay Swamy: Yeah, so first of all the the timing of that was 92 to 2003 right so it was during the dotcom boom era um, so the first thing was nothing is impossible right? You just have to dream it and it might be possible right? and the probability of.

Sanjay Swamy: Success is very low, but the outcomes that you can have are ginormous right? So in some ways what you are risking and this is very true and venture capital. You’re risking one x of whatever you invest and your opportunity cost. But your upside is unlimited right? so. That was one big lesson I think I learned in the valley certainly a few other things in terms of culture and of the way startups are built. Um, you’re really looking to get the best person to do a particular activity or a task and egos and things like that. Completely go out the door so you could have employees on your team whose salaries might be much more than yours because they’re just more senior experienced people but they are the best at what they do rather than sort of where the large companies are built with more of a factory model and with a hierarchical model etc and so when you have these small. Teams um, you know you get extraordinary. Um, you know, outcomes possible right? Although the probability is very low and I think the third thing was that um. Large companies will always talk about innovation innovation innovation but all the innovation comes from small companies slightly untrue today if you look at what’s happening with ai but I would still deem you know Google and meta and all of these companies as.

Sanjay Swamy: Very in their founder led companies right? and when you have founded led companies. These magical things can happen. So those where I would say the 3 big learnings.

Alejandro Cremades: So when you move to when you move to India you helped companies setting up their operations and then eventually you went into the venture world. So tell us about the first rodeo becoming an entrepreneur.

Sanjay Swamy: Like ah but yes, yes, so I went to the venture world by becoming an entrepreneur and the first company was a mobile payments company that I was actually brought in as the founding Ceo and the company is being formed. It was a company attempting to do something like Apple pay on the sim card and this is way before Apple pay itself and of course it was a big ecosystem play to work with telecom operators on the one side with banks on the other side. The regulators and was way too early 2006 before the smartphone era etc. And while we made some decent success. There. You know it was just too big. A a problem to solve and perhaps as an entrepreneur I also screwed up to fair, but um, but eventually after you know 4 years it was clear that it were probably too early. We were on the bleeding edge and not on the leading edge. And you know it was going to be a few more years before mobile payments was going to become mainstream in India and as it turned out that happened from India but that was the sort of opportunity that I was aiming to so today if I look at it India is doing. Ten point Eight billion mobile payment transactions a month and I was you know 5 years too early to the party right? But as entrepreneurs you have to see the future and you have to hope that your timing is right? You can never time the market and you know it’s only hindsight that tells you that you were right or wrong. So that was a four year stint

Sanjay Swamy: 1 of the big things that I struggled with was helping our customers to open a bank account which was a big problem at the time in India because it was a very paper-driven process. And I was fortunate to see ah a government initiative to launch a national id program which would make all of these things real time and and online and so I joined the program as a full time volunteer working for the government about six months before the first id was issued. As it stands today you know ten years later this has become the foundation for everything digital in India it’s called adhar which which stands in sanskrit for foundation and it’s the world’s largest biometric id program we have about one point three billion users who have been enrolled into the system complete with 10 fingerprints 2 iis scans photograph everything done through the government system and today that becomes the foundation for opening a bank account instantaneously getting a telecom connection getting an insurance policy opening a. A trading account. All this is done digitally through this program right? So it’s had massive impact and I was very privileged to be a part of the core team that worked pro bono but I would say was probably the most enriching experience in my life. Um.

Sanjay Swamy: In parallel I had started working with a couple of entrepreneurs on 2 startup opportunities. 1 was a company called zip di if you’re familiar with what a missed call is and where you dial somebody and they don’t pick up. We turn that into a consumer business experience where you could call a business instead of sending a text message.

Alejandro Cremades: Um.

Sanjay Swamy: And the call would disconnect but the business would then you know send you back a response so you could dial a number for your bank balance and a text message would come back to you with the manline and you would save in India the cost was three rupees which is like maybe seven cents I would say in dollars and. You know consumers. We suddenly made it toll free. So that company actually did pretty well eventually had raised about a couple of million dollars of funding across various round sold to Twitter for about $35000000 after 4 years was a good outcome for us as well. As for all the investors everybody made money. In parallel I had started a second company called Easytap which was think of it as square for India but it was much more enterprise focusedcu that recently sold for about one hundred and fifty to hundred and eighty million to raisezor pay. Um and that also was was a good solid outcome for everyone. It took a little longer than we would have liked. But was a great outcome in the end and then I started a Vc fund that’s been my journey so far.

Alejandro Cremades: And. And before we go into the Vc a fund because I want I want to dig deep into that. Um on both companies. So on Ecap as well as on sip dial your role there was cofounder and chair. So.

Sanjay Swamy: Correct correct.

Alejandro Cremades: How how did you initially get involved with those companies because I mean the the role seemed you know the exact same on both companies. You know, typically you would see more like the cofounder and operator versus you know, cofounder and chairman which is obviously more. Strategic level providing guidance versus like being on the day-to-day you know operator side. So how did you land you know those 2 roles and because they were also roles that happen. You know in parallel at the same time one with a what one with the other. No.

Sanjay Swamy: Actually Zipal was in a 4 bedroom house and the fourth bedroom was easy tap. So it was ah but I was actually the idea guy behind this and I put a lot of my personal money upfront in the beginning I found I brought the founders together the other 2 founders were the operating founders. And I was actually a cofounder in these companies or I would’ argue that more of the founder in the early days and the head of the product strategy and everything but I had very clearly right from the beginning whether it was Valerie and avii at Zipile or whether it was Bobby and butta with the other two cofounders that easytap. Very clear with them that I had no no intention of ever being in an operating role in the company I never took a salary in the companies I in fact, had put in personal money into the companies and in in in all of these we were sort of. Was a non-operating founder for the early years I would say the first 3 to 4 years and after that it became another investors came in and stuff like that. It became much more of a a board member but as it turned out in Zipda in easytaps case when you know the the Ceo left and the new Ceo came in. Was you know 4 houses away from me so we would go out for an evening walk and and and keep talking product and you know board related matters even outside of the formal board meeting. So what I like in my role and I said coming back to what I started in 92 is my first job and getting into marketing.

Sanjay Swamy: I was always sort of a pseudo marketingeting guy in all of these companies. Um, obviously I you know I would say till easy type of so lie to actually sometimes sit down in the product review with the with the product team and and help them but I always had a boundary. Which said look I am never making decisions in this company right? So I would I always tell founders. You know I will disagree disapprove dispute discuss debate but I will never decide that it’s your company. Ultimately, you have to make the decisions and that’s the boundary that I had always with the operating team that I would never make a decision. Um, but I will certainly be as actively involved and over a period of time companies gets bigger. The team gets formed and I have less of contribution on the tactical stuff. But there’s always strategic stuff that when you have context and you have so much love for the company. You know you can. You can be woken up at any time of the night and you have you know you don’t have a ten Thousand foot view you have a thousand foot view where the founder is at in on foot view. So that was the the role there and I would say in our Vc fund. Also it’s not as close but we are still one of the vcs that as a team works very closely with our founders.

Alejandro Cremades: Got it.

Sanjay Swamy: And we like to have more context on the company so we can give quality inputs to the founders rather than just looking at the financial metrics.

Alejandro Cremades: So then let me ask you about that I mean you see you were more coming from the operator side. You know the founder side. You’ve been an entrepreneur. So why did you decide to you know, go into the other side of the table as an investor and how did that.

Sanjay Swamy: Um, yeah.

Sanjay Swamy: Yeah, yeah, so I have 2 partners at prime Shripathy and amit who joined us in fund two and we had another partner in fund one. Um, so our.

Alejandro Cremades: Come together to form prime.

Sanjay Swamy: All 3 of us had worked together on the national id program as volunteers my partnershippathy and and the other partner were both co-founders at Snapfish in the us had worked in Silicon Valley very similar backgrounds and we felt that India was going to go through a massive boom in the digital ecosystem. And you know smartphone penetration internet penetration and a lot of things that we saw happen in the valley in the 90 s was going to happen in India and we’d all also seen the national id program and the early digital startups in India and we fed there was going to be a. Spectacular opportunity over the next ten fifteen years and it has largely played out that way and but you know being an entrepreneur is very challenging very lonely. It’s very difficult to be I mean I have deep respect for the founders and we felt that our value add of. Having Silicon Valley experience having firsthand experience in India having understood this whole digital infrastructure. Um, the best thing we could do was actually to work with multiple startups at the same time and what we have also found is seed stage or very early stage of companies when. Just as they say you know for for human beings as well, right? The zero to five years or the zero to ten years are the most critical years and things done. There will have long-term impact. It’s two with startups as well, right? you can you know point the the arrow a little bit to the left or the right and that would make the difference between a mega outcome and ah.

Sanjay Swamy: And and damp squib and we felt look. We are product guys. We’re operators. We have firsthand experience. Um, if we had a checkbook you know we could really work very well with companies and so that’s how we formed our fund and our fund has always been. Um. And operator mindset based fund now. It isn’t a very scalable model. We still do only 4 to 5 deals a year even though our new fund is pretty large because we want to spend time with all the founders right? and our third partner Amit also is a great product guy you know and fun of the best in India. And so we have a very unique model where all partners work with all the companies though I might be the lead on this company dosey. For example, if he wants to know something about ol building. He’ll go talk to my partner ramyth because he is much better than me when it comes to org building I’ve never done that in my life. So we’ve got a. Ah, model working which works very well for early stage startups and we have stuck with that from the beginning and we’re now investing out of our fourth fund It’s been quite an amazing journey. We’ll get into more details later but our model is. Being as close to being operators without actually having the the role and responsibility of being operators and we find that to be very win-win with founders.

Alejandro Cremades: So right now for prime I mean you guys have 350000000 under management 45 investments that you’ve done around 8 exits. So I mean pretty pretty amazing experience. So I guess the um, the question here that comes to mind is.

Sanjay Swamy: That’s right.

Alejandro Cremades: I’ve heard you say that good companies don’t die of starvation. They die of indigestion and I guess you know in this in this macro environment that we’re in right now you know we’re coming from this crazy environment where people were throwing money at anything and now.

Sanjay Swamy: And.

Alejandro Cremades: Money you know has seemed to dry up a little bit more yeah with with with what’s going on in the economy. But what do you mean with this.

Sanjay Swamy: Yeah, so in the past three months we’ve had 3 of our companies get 3 term sheets right? and this is at a time where people are complaining that there is no money available for in late stage companies as well. Right. Ah, that to me is an example of now of course the valuation might have been very different in 2021 for what it is today. But for founders are building a business. They want to make sure they’re adequately capitalized so that they can build their companies in ah you know this whole business is a marathon right? This is not a sprint right. I think 2021 was an aberration. It will never happen again in hindsight it looks like it was a mistake that it happened for for many companies and unfortunately many companies have put themselves in a situation where their valuation is so high compared to where they are on the revenue curve on the other metrics curve. That you know they really should be worth maybe in some cases as low as 10% and probably most likely or forty sixty percent of what they are worth what their valuation said and it puts the founder in a very difficult situation because now they cannot suck it up and say look I need to do a down round and yet at the same time. Um, that is the reality of the new market new world right? So some companies have the money to grow into the valuation but most companies are actually going to struggle to justify that valuation. Ah, we were actually quite fortunate that in that year for some reason most of our companies did not go out and fundraise and so.

Sanjay Swamy: They have managed to raise subsequently and now when you’re raising. It’s you’re raising in the tough market but good companies are able to raise right? So that’s my point about good companies not dying of starvation. But if you look at what was happening in 20202021 where people were getting $5000000000 rounds they blew a lot of this money on Google and Facebook marketing they hired executives and paid them in obnoxious salaries and today they can’t hold onto their team anymore because they’re running out of money and there is no money to keep up at that pace. So I think they’ve run into a bit of an indigestion problem and they all have to clean up before they. Can make forward progress right? and part of that indigestion is actually restructuring recapitalizing the company getting back from unicorn to probably a $200000000 e valuation which might also be excessive. So this is the indigestion problem that they’re all going through right now some have done a good job of it. Some. You know we’re actually deserving maybe just got a little bit of a premium and have grown into the valuation. But that’s probably 30% of the companies. The other 70% are still struggling. Um, and I’m thankful in some ways that we don’t have companies in that board most of our companies. Are in the board where they’re raising now. But they’re solid companies and they’re able to raise at good round. So I think for entrepreneurs you know I’m not saying that we should not raise in such terms but you shouldn’t get ahead of yourself, but just because somebody gave you evaluation doesn’t mean that’s what the value is.

Sanjay Swamy: And is a fundamental difference between valuation and value and this was the other point you made earlier good companies. Nothing is as good as it appears. Nothing is as bad as it appears I think we sometimes whenever good things happen. We like to take the credit for it when bad things happen. We like to blame somebody else or some other market situation for it. Reality is it’s neither and I think founders should stay grounded when good things are Happening. We should be grateful but continue. Um you know without too much of emotional jubilation when bad things are Happening. We shouldn’t get emotionally down because that’s also temporal. It will go away with time right? So That’s the long answer to your question.

Alejandro Cremades: And I love that that it will go away. You know every day is a new day especially for founders. So so when you’re talking about valuation there if you’re not using valuation as a measure of success or failure. What do you use.

Sanjay Swamy: Absolutely.

Sanjay Swamy: So to me and I’ll calibrate this for the indian market now it put other geographies. It might have to be seen I look at a goal post for a company to say what will it take to get to $100000000 of revenue to get to say 30% debitda and maybe a 30% year on year growth right? a company like that that is spitting out $30000000 of cash every year in profits is probably worth a uniccon right in the public markets right now whether you choose to go public whether you want to be private etc but those are sort of metrics that. We can. Um we can say justifies a unicorn valuation a uniconn might be 700000000 might be one point five billion but it’s in that zone. So then we look and say okay when we are coming into a company. What how much of capital will it take to get to that can it even get to that in the first place right? so. This is where we all look at the you know tamams home all of these equations that people have got but but ultimately if you can’t get an opportunity to get $1000000000 of revenue then it’s not worth venture capital you can still build the company but don’t take it external capital. Um.

Sanjay Swamy: Then the question is how much money will it take right? Obviously if you’re spending a billion dollars to get to 100000000 in revenue that doesn’t make any sense. But if you’re spending 25 maybe 40000000 in revenue to get to 100000000 in revenue with this profitability and growth. It might still be a very attractive opportunity and so that’s what we sort of look at. Can you get? What does it take and and remember we invest in companies when they have some $50000 of revenue. So we’re making a huge bet in our hypothesis saying. Okay this is how the world is going to evolve over the next five years this is how these founders are going to be able to evolve and grow into their functions. This is how the technology stack is going to change and of course with Ai. It’s changing so fast that we all have to be sort of little bit of a guessing game. But I think we look at founders and say can these people cope with the change can they be ahead of the change and do they really understand the mark of the market. Do they I mean have they worked in the industry. Do they have empathy for the customers. Can they build an organization. These are all factors that be able to make a judgment call on and of course the more data that is the happier we are um but I think for us we look at these steps and say can these people go through the gears right. Not everybody will but we’re making a judgment call and in venture capital. We have the luxury of we have to be right 3 times out of 10 right? as a Vc but as an entrepreneur to me I worry about those other 7 founders and I want to make sure that they all get something right? so.

Sanjay Swamy: We also look at how the companies are going and most species. But so if you’re right 3 times or 10 cares about the rest but that’s the investor mindset. The founder mindset is I’m in the other 7 companies I’m going to slog for 7 years I can’t get 0 out of it right? so. That is sort of where the empathy for a founder comes in and we look at that say. Okay, if things don’t work out. What is the safe landing for this company right? So zip dial. For example, you know could have been a very large company but we all got something meaningful out of it right? and and and so to me that is like a plan b that we look for though we play for plan a. At some point you realize that planning is not happening in this case and at least the founders should get something decent out of it. It won’t have any material impact to us as the vc but it’ll be life changing for the founders. So that’s sort of how we look at things.

Alejandro Cremades: I love it. So if I could bring you back in time and let’s say um I bring you back in time to that moment where you were thinking about starting your your first company mobile payments right.

Sanjay Swamy: A.

Alejandro Cremades: And you have the opportunity of giving that younger self one piece of advice for launching a business. What would that be and why given what you know now.

Sanjay Swamy: So I think it would be that when you have seen the future stick with it. Ah, you may have been too early right? And that’s where I feel I was at the bleeding edge but I was absolutely right. I used to always tell people 10 years from now. How do you think we will all be transacting. Course it’s going to be on mobile phones right? and I was right? We were all transacting on mobile phones but I was maybe 10 years too early right? And um I have no regrets because I learned a lot and that was the foundation for my Vc fund and we are doing very very well. But many founders I know give up and just go take a job and then I became another different type of entrepreneur right? and I always say look if you know that what you’re doing is going to happen and it’s a matter of time right? Then you should stick with it if you think something is going to happen in the next three years and it doesn’t happen for you. And somebody else steals the opportunity then that’s fine then you can you know do a complete reset in life. But if if nobody has taken that opportunity and you are still convinced that that’s where the opportunity is you have to figure out a way to keep going right? And that’s I think the one takeaway that I would give myself. Which I of course didn’t have I thought that you know when the or when it didn’t happen. It was not going to happen. So I always tell founders just make sure that you’re not giving up too early now. It’s of course very difficult because sometimes you’re giving up too late and you’re burnt out.

Sanjay Swamy: And so so sometimes so the flip side of that and it’s not black and white. This is the challenge in this whole thing for founders is you know you you stick with it. You stick with it. You stick with it and finally when you give up, you’re so burnt out that you don’t have the energy to do 1 more startup and that’s unfortunate. So that’s there and maybe had 1 situation where. Was cleared pandemic hit company was not going anywhere. A founder could have raised a series b and stayed in business but I actually spoke to the founder and said look you have something good. There is value here. You can get an exit. It’ll be meaningful for you. It is not meaningful for us. But I think it’s the right thing to do. You’re 27 years old you’re going to make a few million dollars you’re going to be 30 years old after you’ve done your 3 years with the buyer you can do another startup at that time right? and he took my advice and I think we’re all happy that that was the right thing that happened we of course got a small return on our investment. But. But 3 hree twenty seven year olds to make you know a few million dollars is not a bad thing. Um, and I think ah, that’s always the tradeoff for founders. Do I give up to early or do I pivot and and all these things but but I think when the macro thing you’re solving is. Definitely going to happen and you’re ahead of the game I would say stay the course.

Alejandro Cremades: So for the founders that are listening right now and that they would love to reach out and say hi. What is the best way for them to do so.

Sanjay Swamy: My Twitter dm is open thuswami t h e s w a my and I respond to anything that I find is relate to to entrepreneurship people do spam me with a lot of other junk. But if it is anything from a founder or anything to entrepreneurship. I would be delighted to respond.

Alejandro Cremades: Amazing! So sanji I just want to say? Thank you so much for being on the deal maker show. It has been such an honor to have you with us and I’m sure that you’ve been able to inspire many of the founders that are listening. So thank you so much sanji for being with us today.

Sanjay Swamy: Thank you and thank you for having me on the show. It’s been a great pleasure for me to take care. But.

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