Sami Inkinen On Building Two Billion-Dollar Companies, Raising $360 Million For The Second To Reverse Type 2 Diabetes

When it comes to building a billion-dollar company, doing it once might be considered luck, but doing it twice is a testament to skill and perseverance. Sami Inkinen, the entrepreneur behind two successful ventures, shares his journey from humble beginnings on a Finnish farm to founding companies like Trulia and Virta Health.

Sami has raised funding for Virta Health from top-tier investors like Tiger Global, Sequoia Capital Global Equities, and Caffeinated Capital.

In this episode, you will learn:

• Sami Inkinen began on a humble farm in Finland, showing that big dreams can stem from modest beginnings.
• His interest in computers and software was sparked by a simple Commodore 64, highlighting the importance of nurturing curiosity.
• Inkinen’s journey through the 2008 financial crisis with Trulia exemplifies resilience and perseverance in tough times.
• His first company, Match’em, served as a “million Euro MBA,” teaching him invaluable lessons the hard way.
• Experience at McKinsey sharpened his ability to break down complex problems, strategically approach solutions, and calibrate execution vs. planning.
• Inkinen’s mission with Virta Health is to reverse T2 diabetes in 100M people.
• Success doesn’t happen overnight; Inkinen emphasizes the importance of dedication and playing the long game in building impactful companies.

 

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About Sami Inkinen:

Sami Inkinen is the Chief Executive Officer and Co-Founder of Virta Health, which provides the first clinically proven treatment to safely and sustainably reverse type 2 diabetes without medications or surgery.

A data-driven technology entrepreneur, Sami’s personal connection to diabetes and passion for advancing health on a global scale was the motivation behind Virta Health and its innovative approach to diabetes care.

Previously, Inkinen was the co-founder of the leading online real estate marketplace Trulia, serving as its COO and president and board member until its IPO and eventual sale to Zillow Group.

He also worked on Microsoft’s strategy team for MS Office and as a consultant for McKinsey & Company in the software, telecommunications, and government sectors.

To raise awareness about the dangers of sugar and its connection to diabetes, Sami started Fat Chance Row.

During the summer of 2014, Sami and his wife rowed from California to Hawaii—2,750 miles, completely unsupported. He is also a triathlon age group world champion and 8 hours 24-minute Ironman with seven Hawaii Ironman finishes.

Connect with Sami Inkinen:

• LinkedIn
• Crunchbase
• TheOrg
• PitchBook

Read the Full Transcription of the Interview:

Alejandro Cremades: Alrighty hello everyone and welcome to the deal maker show. So today. We have an amazing founder you know founder that not only has done it once he has done it twice when it comes to building a billion dollar company as they say once you’re lucky twice you’re good. So why I think that we’re gonna be learning quite a bit on the show Today. We’re going to be learning about you know how he went about. You know, just starting a company ah being an immigrant in the us actually that company ended up going public then also being an outsider and then becoming an insider as well as you know the process of building a unicorn as well as. Shifting from one segment to another just like he did real estate then he went into healthcare care so quite the changes so again building scaling financing exiting all of the good stuff that we like to hear so without further ado. Let’s welcome our guest today Samy Inkin in welcome to the show. Jeff.

Sami Inkinen: Well, all a hundred. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, excited to be here.

Alejandro Cremades: So originally born and raised in Finland on a farm give us a walk through memory lane. How was life growing up.

Sami Inkinen: Um, it was pretty wonderful now looking back there. But yeah I grew up on a farm in Finland not far from ah the russian border my parents did not even go to high school so as you could call pretty humble beginnings. We had bunch of chickens and couple of picks and. Behalf the food we ate we grew on a farm. So I certainly learned the value and actually the joy of hard work and manual labor pretty early. It wasn’t really by choice always because I had to work hard. But yeah was it was it was a beautiful time to.

Alejandro Cremades: So you got into physics you know there in Finland and then eventually you know things say took a different shift and you got into software and and computers. So tell us what? what really sparked the interest for software and computers for you.

Sami Inkinen: And way to grow up as a kid.

Sami Inkinen: Yeah I guess going from potatoes and chickens to computers. It’s it’s a little bit of a quantum leap. But yeah, what happened to me is I got excited about computers through the pages of of magazines I’m talking like late. Actually mid 80 s and so I convinced my father to spend a couple of hundred bucks on a commodore 64 commodo 64 so I think that opened my eyes already in my before I even turned 10 years of age did the choice of computers and then just to fast forward a little bit. Um I read about modems us robotics and bbs is pre-internet bulletin board systems and so I actually ended up starting and building and running one of the first not the first but 1 of the first bbses in Finland from my you know bedroom for my parents’ house and using our phone line. Um, for people to dial in into so that’s kind of all those experiences opened my eyes to like wow there’s much more to life than you know, chickens and farm and potatoes and and I just got very excited about computers and that’s more or less. It’s been the the hammer or the tool in my back pocket ever since I was 10 years of old and. Of age and it’s really been the tool that I’ve used professionally ever since.

Alejandro Cremades: Well 1 thing that was very helpful. You know talking about learning you know was joining what was the equivalent to e trade there in Finland you know, basically a stockbroker and you had the opportunity here of not only seeing something being built from scratch but then also taken public. What do you think you know you gain access to in terms of visibility on on the full cycle of a business like that.

Sami Inkinen: Yeah, it’s it’s a cute question and and indeed I was in the middle of doing my masters in physics and as as a software developer and it support person I kind of financed my way through college and then these couple of folks were starting a company called Eq online which you could. Call it the e-trade of Finland and I was probably the number 1 or 2 or 3 anyways, one of the first 5 employees that they hired and literally this company went from 0 to ipo in Finland which is all the more remarkable because it’s it’s not like at the time it wasn’t really known for. Building high-tech companies from so from 0 to ipo in I think less than 18 months. Um, yeah, it’s I think a lot of things so one was just the um. I guess the emotional excitement of a team coming together and literally building something out of a scratch that within a year is used by. You know a large portion of the entire counter whether that was one hundred thousand a million users I don’t even remember how many. Ah, but to be able to create something from scratch is as part of a team that people use and and like to use I don’t know it was just a very special experience that alone was was amazing and then a second thing is I’m just a huge believer in the extreme power of example and inspiration.

Sami Inkinen: And to be able to see that these wonderful and smart human beings and professionals who at the end of the day were just no different from me were able to make all that happen was very inspiring. Um, and it wasn’t like I was thinking at the time like oh I want to replicate this so that process is but it clearly planted the seed in my mind at the time so that was 19 Yeah 1998 and 1999.

Alejandro Cremades: Now you actually went at it on your own you know, eventually you know you worked with the companies like Nokia but then eventually you started your own business. Ah, which was the first attempt you know, call match him and and as you say you know it day you guys you know, ended up getting that company Ac acquired but.

Sami Inkinen: Yeah.

Alejandro Cremades: It perhaps didn’t go as far as let’s say like a verta or let’s say like a trulia how was that experience. You know that first rodeo.

Sami Inkinen: Yeah I call it my million Euro Mba Million euro mba and the reason is we raised a million Euros of funding serious a and blew all the money and all we had to show was not much so so I call it my. My million year Mba but yeah it was an amazing 3 year journey a software company mine first like I would call real company that I co-founded in in Finland I lived a year in Singapore year almost two years in Hong Kong as part of that trying to build the business there. Ah. And we ended up selling it to a german acquir at at the end of that but I would say it literally was like an Mba you know I was an engineer by training into computers and physicists for my training and then suddenly I’m literally living in in Hong Kong and trying to make the business and business development work having never even traveled in a country before. So. Yeah, probably learned more through mistakes in 3 years that you would learn in in a regular job in in a in a decade and at that point I knew absolutely certainly that you know there’s no way I should be building a career in a large stable company in my life. Ah, the experience of coming together with the team building something the excitement of not knowing what’s around the corner which is so captivating that I was like oh if I if I can replicate this in bigger circles kind of like in the big leagueaks. It would be the most amazing thing I could do in my life at this at that point.

Alejandro Cremades: So eventually, you went to mckinsey you know which was this segue into your Mba real and Nba you know we sta for at least you know when it comes to degree and Nba ah and in in and one of the things that is very interesting that hits me here is 1 what did you get from working at a place like Mckinsey when it comes to breaking bigger problems into smaller problems now to really be able to um to to to have a strategic direction when it comes to bringing a solution to market but then also. Going from a farm you know where you were more like seeing potatoes to then all of a sudden you know, living in places like Singapore or even now the us I’m sure that your worldview and the lens in which you approach problem solving to shift it quite a bit.

Sami Inkinen: Yeah, and then first of all your listeners may be like wait a second you started a company you sold it whether it was a huge success or not and then you joined Mckinsey are you freaking crazy like that doesn’t make any sense and in some ways it probably doesn’t make any sense. But. The reason I I wanted to join and was lucky enough to be able to join Mckinsey was in addition to this and Nba path. It was actually my way of hopefully and potentially getting into America getting into America legally in Silicon Valley so that was kind of in my mind at the time like oh if I get into Mckinsey’s this global, amazing management consulting firm. I’m sure I can somehow would go through 1 office to another and end up in America legally so so that was kind of the motivating force. However I learn a ton and I’d say one of the main sort of problem solving and approaching a business that changed was. When I went from doing my physics degree to starting a company I went from all analysis and math to literature shooting from the hip all the time First time founder like everything’s. I felt like I always had thousand things to do. But I only had time for 5 no time to think it was just literally shooting from a hip like just running 100% of time. No deep thinking. No analysis. So I was in one end of a spectrum and then I got to mckinsey after that experience for 3 years and it hits the opposite. It’s like.

Sami Inkinen: 0 execution and 100% analysis like just analysis and the end product is basically bunch of slides to a bar client so it was actually a very useful calibration that I went both of the bookends that coming out of that my makey mckinsey experience. It was like okay well. Whatever you end up doing the truths usually somewhere there in the middle. So I think that helped me to calibrate like even if you’re building something from scratch. You have to be running kind of pan of miles an hour sixty miles an hou hour sixty miles an hou hour all the time you do have to find the time to analyze and think. So you aren’t running through the wrong directions I said that was one of the bigger things I I picked up the mckinsey the the ability to then have these different tools and mode so operating and building a company.

Alejandro Cremades: So talking about building a company. You know you ended up going to Stanford and that was kind of like the reset button because that allowed you to maybe a slap across the face and hey you know I got to go back to building companies now. So why? at this point is where you know. Ah, massive success story you know was born and that was truly a so and for the listeners. You know we also did an episode with your cofounder there with Peter Flint recommending and listening to that one too. But. But tell us your side of the story. You know how? how did the company come together. How did the band come together. You know while you were there at Stanford.

Sami Inkinen: Yeah, and and I got very lucky obviously that I I met Pete Pete Flint my my co-founder and it was an amazing journey together. But um, yeah, it. It might be surprising and interesting for your listeners to hear that you know I’m a physicist by training I came from europe I come from outside of us. And no experience in residential real estate industry in the Us. Well guess what? my co-founder Pete also physicist by training also comes from europe also our real estate experience and he’s my stand for classmate. So. It’s basically 2 completely unqualified immigrants. Ah, who who meet up and decide to start this company to take on one of the largest industries in the us which is the residential real estate in the us um, but how did it come together. Well obviously we were classmates and we both knew that and respected each other and knew that we are entrepreneurly minded. We want to start something so we had. Were kind of both at the right time at the right place so there was that element. Um, and I think we were less. It wasn’t like oh we both want to start a real estate company or on our real estate marketplace I think we both came into it through slightly different reasons and slightly different personal experiences. But at the end of the day we both realized that the way surge and these vertical specific companies like Expedia for airline tickets mats.com for finding a spouse and hotels dot com for finding a hotel and so forth.

Sami Inkinen: What had happened in these different verticals. What what you might call classified verticals online in that there was a consumer first internet marketplace or internet service would happen in residential real estate but it had not yet happened 2003 2004 so it’s very clear to us that somebody is going to own the minds share of consumers who want to buy a home or sell a home or rent a home and that could be us and so I think that’s where we both landed and then we have this inspiration and energy and both as immigrants. Basically just wanted to build something in Silicon Valley that’s the and I’m here in San Francisco and Silicon Valley right now. So that that that is the place to really try and spread your wings if if you’re an entrepreneur and and off we went.

Alejandro Cremades: So at what point do you realize we truly are that you are writing a rocket ship.

Sami Inkinen: Ah, that that is I love that question. Um I’ll answer this in in 2 different ways. 1 is that when you’re an inside a company. You’re building. There’s no such thing as you’ve made it or success. In fact, once you start thinking, it’s kind of like things will go sideways. So. Inside this to some extent. The answer is never you always feel like you’re in the middle of a cardhouse and you’re just trying to kind of like keep it together so you’re in your own fish bowl. So it never just feels like done and safe and um, stable and whatnot. So I think that’s one part of it. But then the other way to answer the question. Obviously there’s some objective measures. Um, um, obviously when company goes public pretty objectively, you have a substantial business and it’s worthy a public market investor. So certainly at that point. But um.

Sami Inkinen: I think maybe maybe end of 2009 and I say this because we had survived the drought of 2008 Lehman Brothers collapsed and the industry that really got hit the worst. Was mortgates and residential real estate and we in the middle of that and our clients are going out of business. We knew we can’t raise more money. Our revenues are basic going down. It’s like if we don’t die now we are probably going to survive anything so I would say. Yeah, that moment of maybe a year after the 2008 crash when we turned the corner and knew that we are onto something that probably was the first moment when I was like whoa. This is this thing truly is here to stay truly here to stay.

Alejandro Cremades: And the company ended up getting acquired for two point five billion by sillo so make us an insider you know here? What? what how? how was that process like and and also what was the moment like when. All of a sudden you ink the deal. You know a company. Ah you found it from nothing you know is it acquired for two point five billion you know a company that was cofounded to by an immigrant. You know an immigrant that was born in ah in a farm of potatoes I mean it’s say is absolutely unbelievable, right.

Sami Inkinen: Yeah, well well a couple of things there. Well first of all, we went public 2012 and our ah peer company and competitor zillow had gone public a little bit ahead of us so we were two public companies at the time when we got the final offer. For for the merger as I was two public companies basically coming together or obviously they were a little bigger than us and they they acquired us um, but leading up to that we had had which is is public information we had had multiple conversations about potentially teaming up. Um, because the Nba term industrial logic industrial logic made sense that while are we trying to do the same thing in many ways and we could have 2 brands and this would be more beneficial for our customers and efficiencies all kinds of stuff so we had had a couple of conversations. But quite frankly particularly when we had these conversations as private companies is very hard to agree in valuations to this and that once companies are public. It’s way more objective. All the information is out there share price kind of tells. Or the market cap. What the companies were so it’s just actually much easier for public companies to do that which probably made it much more likely. But I’ll just finish off saying the very moment is kind of crazier than crazy I had left my operational role 2014.

Sami Inkinen: And I was on a board of the company and I was a co-founder but I wasn’t running operationally and but what I was doing at the time was my wife and I were rowing in a robot across the Pacific Ocean Unsupported it was kind of ah trying to you know, raise awareness about the dangers of bad food and sugar. So we are literally on a halfway point between the pacific ocean or between California and Hawaii halfway point like more than thousand miles of just water both ways and we have a satellite phone and I get a text message to the satellite phone like Zillow wants to acquire us for whatever two billion three billion will you accept this transaction like this sounds like a movie scene but this is actually true like that was the moment and I look at my wife while sweating and in pain and you know trying to keep rowing the boat forward. Can you. Believe this? What do I answer and it was actually in many ways, very confusing and emotional moment because it’s kind of your baby. Obviously we built together with the team and everything but in the middle of the ocean. It’s kind of your. Thing for a decade and yeah, that’s kind of how it happened and obviously the answer was yes and in many ways it felt like ah ah, a chapter in my book or in my life was absolutely truly coming to an end so it was it was.

Alejandro Cremades: That’s amazing.

Sami Inkinen: It may sound like it’s only sweet but it was. It’s definitely was bittersweet. It was very mixed mixed emotions.

Alejandro Cremades: I Hear you I mean always when you go through a transaction like that and it’s a complain that you’ve co-founded it it it. It tends to feel like a loss in the family you know, kind of thing you know it’s ah it’s a rural roller cluster of emotions so I can totally understand that now now.

Sami Inkinen: Ahead and have.

Alejandro Cremades: In your case, you know 1 chapter closes another one opens and the next one is another billion dollar company that you’ve created which is called Verta. So for the people that are listening. You know to get it. What are you guys up to adverta. What is what is the business model. How do you guys make money.

Sami Inkinen: Yeah, well first of all on a high level. We’re solving the biggest metabolic health or health crisis in the world that is type 2 diabetes and obesity and you know missing to reverse diabetes in half a million people and and we achieve that as a telemedicine company. But therapy is through nutrition and behavior change. So we’ a healthcare tech company in terms of how we make money. Well it turns out reversing or curing diabetes is very valuable and so we go and sell to Healthcare Payers employers helplands and government. And say hey we can clean up the diabetes mess. We’re going to help you save money we work with companies like Papa John so yeah uhaul or United Airlines and Blue City California and the veterans administration so they pay for our service to help people reverse diabetes and lose weight and then. The service for the actual patients is is completely free. So so that’s the model and so we get paid a couple hundred bucks per patient or user per month and that’s that’s how it works.

Alejandro Cremades: And how much capital have you guys raised to date sunny.

Sami Inkinen: We have raised 10 times more equity capital than we raised for Trulia from 0 to ipo so truly are we raised about 33000000 of equity 0 to ipo and for verta we raised about 360000000

Alejandro Cremades: I mean I’m sure that it was a little bit easier to raise money this time around now with your with your background. So How did you go about raising money. You know like what? what? What did you look for in the people that you were bringing on. From one cycle to the next and how do you think the expectation shifted you know as you were going from one cycle to the other.

Sami Inkinen: Yeah, well first I should say personally I don’t glorify fundraising or the money raised or amount raised and the way I describe it internally for my team I’m like it’s like a mortgage but these days you get mortgaged for seven or eight percent guess what this equity from vcs. We. We want to pay back at 50% 100% year of year so this is very expensive money. We can’t take it lightly. We have to take it super duper seriously so and and the amount of money raised to me is not a measure of success. It’s literally is a three hundred and sixty million dollars mortgage that. We have to and we want to want to pay back but in terms of fundraising. Obviously there’s a balance. So some people say raise as much as you can and some people raise as little as as as you can. To me the truth somewhere there in the middle for our type of a business with long b two b sales cycles. We did a clinical trial. You just need set amount of capital you absolutely set them amount of capital. Um, and then of course you need some buffer um, like if something doesn’t go to plan so so that’s kind of how I think about the amount. But. And then you do need to time the market as as well like when money isn’t available. It’s hard to raise it when it’s available. Um, you want to be racing even if you aren’t feeling like you need it right now. So I guess it’s a balance of being opportunistic which we were in.

Sami Inkinen: 2021 when we raised money at at the peak. It wasn’t like oh we need desperately need money but I had seen the dance before. In fact, truly we raised money very early 2008 and then Lehman Brothers collapsed and there was no money available at all and so had we not done that March April Two Thousand and eight fundraise we would have gone out of business. And I remember thinking the same thing 2021 I was like we don’t really need capital but I’ve seen this dance before it may come in handy. Well we know what happened 2022 so it has come in handy. so so ah trying to be pragmatic but and also opportunistic.

Alejandro Cremades: So Obviously you know like when it comes to investors you know and where you were saying the 360000000 mortgage. You know it. It comes with a vision. You know they’re really betting on on a vision. So if you were to go to sleep tonight Samy and you wake up in a world where the vision of Verti is fully realized. What does that world look like.

Sami Inkinen: Um, it probably looks like Europe in 1970 s that is that we don’t see a lot of obese people with type 2 diabetes like quite frankly, this may sound very idealistic but I was so done building companies and for-profit companies after tru. It was an amazing journey but I was pretty exhaust and I was like okay I’ve I’ve done that no need to do that again. However I I did come out of like quasi retirement to start vert to hell but I did not start verta in any way to like oh I want to start another company or build another company or that was not the point. The point was. I accidentally stumbled on a way to basically help hopefully billions of people reverse type two diabetes and and and lose weight and this this whole metabolic health mess is that’s bankrupting us healthcare it is solvable. It can be solved. And then I just chose a for- profit company as the best tool to do that because you can raise capital you can attract talent you can do everything so but the fact that we a company the fact that we are a for profit company and hopefully very successful. It literally is just a tool It’s a means to an end. It’s like a car for a road trip. The point is not the car. The point point is the road trip and and enjoying that so that’s kind of like the vision that I have is that hopefully we’ll fix the problem or at least a big part of that problem and guess what if we do that we are going to make a shitload of money for our investors and employees and everyone and so it’s hopefully that’s how how.

Sami Inkinen: Um, we things up working up.

Alejandro Cremades: So obviously this is the second company that ah the third company that you do, but the second one that is a billion dollar business what’s the formula. You know Sami you know, obviously this is the second time around. You know you can compare with the first time around that he was not in the in the billion in the billion mark. But. This is the second time. So what’s the formula. What can you share with the people listening.

Sami Inkinen: Yeah I Guess like you said once you are lucky twice you are even lucky. That’s how that’s how I I like to think about um, well honestly I do not think there’s a formula like there is no formula and that is part of the formula.

Sami Inkinen: Little circular reference there but it there is no formal is is part of the formal but I do think there’s a couple of things that are sort of universal I’ll just throw you if if you here number 1 if you never start or take the first step Nothing’s going to happen. And so sounds very simple but there’s so many people like I want to start a company and do this and they just talk. They just never take the first step. The first step is actually way more important than people realize and and it’s kind of like drawing across the pacific people. How? Why were you able to do that I’m like once you take the first ora stroke like you actually have no choice. Just have to take 1000000 of them and then you end up in in Hawai from from California. So so that’s 1 thing. Ah second one is I’ve always started from a problem like hey here’s a meaningful thing to solve. And then you introduce the way in which you do and the technology and I think way too many people are like oh now we’ve got this ai thing like um, what? how do we apply? This ai I just think that’s completely backwards the world needs and values solutions to problems. Ah, but so. So being very clear about like what what is that you’re trying to solve I think starting from there is is very very important and then the third universal thing I would say to build a growth company to a sustainable business. It is like the archa like winning an olympic gold which is to say is very hard.

Sami Inkinen: Is very very hard and so to achieve that there’s are 2 things that I to me very universal, you want to be a plus in everything your investors your employees everything like if you want to win olympic gold like you better have the best coach best intrition is best training plan. Best genes best everything like you just want to stack up everything for your benefit and then the other one is. It’s always the long game. Um, if you just stay in business for a decade. You’re very likely to do something very meaningful and like I am. August Twenty Twenty four it’s 10 years that I’ve been working on verta and with outside investors in others 9 years but so it’s ten years so that’s and particularly first -time founders they may read headlines. It’s like oh billion dollar company and you know they want to like I don’t know put the money into k crypto in the right time. No, no, no all overnight success stories or almost all of them are 10 years in the making.

Alejandro Cremades: So let me ask you this just to expand on this. Let’s say put you into a time machine and I bring you back in time you know, let’s say it’s year 2000 you know you’re literally giving your notice to leave Nokia and you’re now for the first time becoming an entrepreneur. Venturing into the unknown. Let’s say as you’re coming out of the you know, big building of Nokia you know and and wondering what the future holds let’s say you’re able to stop that younger self on the tracks and you’re able to give that younger sammy one piece of advice for launching a business just one. But will that be and why given what you know now.

Sami Inkinen: Ah, um, well honestly I’ve had a lot of fun throughout the journey and and at least the last 2 companies while virtual business is still private but they’ve been objectively very impactful and and successful. So I don’t know i. Probably anything I would say I would mess up my my naivety and and everything but ah, what would I tell? Um I think um, maybe even more patience. Ah, pace yourself I certainly? um, yeah so 2 things actually because I have learned this sort of a hard way pace yourself meaning to really take care of yourself because it’s it’s always like this ah like a decade plus journey to build something so you have to. It’s like like running a marathon. Yeah, you may make a sprint over hill but you cannot be sprinting all the time its otherwise you’t going to finish the marathon so pacee yourself is one um and then the other one is you cannot finish work by working. And this isn’t just like bullying all others or something like that. But you can’t finish work by working therefore be very thoughtful about like what really matters and how do you allocate your time and I did not realize this during the trulia year. So I constantly had this feeling.

Sami Inkinen: Which is not positive that oh there’s eighty things I need to do but I only have time for 2 now or something like that. Well of course that’s effect. But there’s usually only a couple things when you look back at the end of each year as a founder like what are the 1 or 2 or 3 things that truly move the needle and so. The sooner you realize that and the more time you spend on like really understanding that I can uniquely affect this thing and that will have disproportionate impact on the outcome the more you can actually have impact in that area and less stressful. It is and all that stuff. And I think that’s been much easier for me at aver it doesn’t mean that it’s easier or less work or whatnot but you can really kind of it’s kind of like starting a fire with the magnifying class like you aren’t going to start any fire unless you really focus the sunbeams or the photons into this one little piece. And that’s how you certify you and I think that’s needed in in building a company as as founder.

Alejandro Cremades: I love it so Sami for the people that are listening that will love to reach out and say hi. What is the best way for them to do so.

Sami Inkinen: Um, I actually surprisingly read my Linkedin messages pretty well or you can dm on on Twitter as well. So yeah, you online I’m I’m pretty responsive.

Alejandro Cremades: Amazing, well easy enough. What hey samy thank you so much for being on the deal maker show today. It has been an absolute honor to have you with us.

Sami Inkinen: Well thank you so much that handra.

*****

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