Neil Patel

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In the world of business, there are stories that transcend the ordinary, tales of resilience, innovation, and the audacity to challenge the status quo. Paul Prager and Nazar Khan have had an inspiring journey leading up to a highly lucrative partnership.

This collaboration of two highly motivated and aspiring individuals resulted in the ideation of TeraWulf, a sustainable Bitcoin mining organization focused on developing extensive infrastructure. This company has the potential to transition to a zero-carbon future for the world.

TeraWulf raised funding from top-tier investors like The Vanguard Group, Inc., BlackRock Fund Advisors, and Geode Capital Management LLC.

In this episode, you will learn:

  • Paul Prager’s naval background taught him the paramount importance of discipline in executing a successful business plan.
  • Nazar Khan’s journey from India to the Midwest instilled in him the ambition and resilience needed for entrepreneurship, inspired by his parents’ immigrant experience.
  • Nazar’s transition from banking to entrepreneurship, culminating in TeraWulf, highlights the dynamic and evolving nature of entrepreneurial journeys.
  • TeraWulf’s shift from contracted power generation to Bitcoin mining showcases the importance of adaptability and seizing opportunities in the face of industry evolution.
  • TeraWulf’s success in Bitcoin mining stems from its vertical integration strategy and zero-carbon focus, leveraging expertise in developing and operating power plants for efficient power procurement.
  • The transition from a private to a public company emphasizes the significance of financial transparency, effective communication, and conservative approaches in a competitive environment.
  • TeraWulf’s journey underscores the impact of timing on success, navigating challenges and market dynamics with resilience and adaptability in the Bitcoin mining and sustainable energy landscape.


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About Paul Prager

Paul Prager is the Co-Founder and Chief Executive Officer of TeraWulf Inc. and the Chairman of the Board of Directors.

Prior to TeraWulf, Paul was the Founder and CEO of Beowulf Energy LLC and its predecessor companies since 1990.

Paul has extensive investment and entrepreneurial experience in international shipping, commodity trading, and power generation.

A graduate of the United States Naval Academy, Paul is a member of the investment committee and Trustee of the USNA Foundation.

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About Nazar Khan:

Nazar Khan is the Co-Founder, Chief Operating Officer, Chief Technology Officer, and Board Member of TeraWulf Inc.

Nazar brings tremendous experience in energy infrastructure and cryptocurrency mining and has led TeraWulf’s business strategy since day one.

As COO and CTO, Nazar oversees the development and implementation of TeraWulf’s day-to-day operations, including hardware procurement, site evaluation, infrastructure buildout, and identification of future growth opportunities.

Nazar previously served as Executive Vice President of Beowulf Energy LLC for nearly 20 years, where he led the firm’s acquisition and development efforts.

Before Beowulf, Nazar worked at Evercore Partners Inc. in investment banking and private equity. Mr. Khan received a B.S. and a B.A. from the University of Pennsylvania.

Connect with Paul Prager:

Connect with Nazar Khan:

Read the Full Transcription of the Interview:

Alejandro Cremades: Alrighty hello everyone and welcome to the deal maker show. So today. We have two co-founders really joining us you know for sharing you know their journey sharing what they have accomplished which is pretty remarkable and then also the journey to of their current business which is a public company. We’re going to be talking about building scaling financing how a pivot you know, led to really them. You know getting going how they’ve also gone about retention and really getting great people that also stayed you know over the course of time as well as building a vertical integrated business. You know are really interesting and inspiring. Ah, story an episode that we have ahead of us so without fartherdo. Let’s welcome the founders of terra wolf that is Paul and nassar welcome to the show. So let’s start with Paul so Paul.

Paul Prager: Thank you very much.

Nazar Khan: I do.

Alejandro Cremades: Originally born in New York but as you say life got really interesting in college so give us a walk through memory lane.

Paul Prager: It’s not that fascinating I went to the naval academy at Annapolis and for a kid from New York it was a little bit of a change in experience graduated Annapolis went to the naval service became a. And I subbine warfare officer served at sea for almost four years ended up as a naval aidide to the secretary of the Navy um, and and I think I learned a lot there about the exercise of restraint um, risk reward. Um. How important discipline was in terms of prosecuting a business plan. Um, and and I you know when I left the service I went to Salman Brothers I became a tradeor um and then after a couple of years I joined Marvin Davis where we applied a lot of the valuation methods that we had. Used in trading to include in valuing derivatives for the early stage of the oil and gas derivative markets which was pretty exciting. Um I left because.

Alejandro Cremades: Now 1 thing that 1 thing that you were alluding to earlier was say a discipline no and executing a business plan you know and and what the Navy you know actually taught you can you double click on that you know why you know that discipline was so important and how do you think that it has served you. You know later on. Yeah.

Paul Prager: So you know in the in the Navy you get reviewed periodically and and 1 of the comments in 1 of my reviews from my skipper was that Prager had a sense of outrage and um and so he would come with an opinion and then he was tenacious in seeing it through. And and the problem is it’s there are 15000000 reasons why you shouldn’t do something It’s harder to find reasons why you should. But when you do you got to do it. You got to you got to assume acceptable risk reward standards and then you got to stay the course and I think that believe it or not in the navy everyone thinks oh you’re told what to do. You could exercise a lot of initiative in the Navy and I had great opportunities to do that at sea served with some fantastic people. Um, and I think in business you have to have an opinion you have to be prepared to fight to express that opinion in a correct and proper way. And you have to stay the course and and that requires discipline because everyone is shooting bullets at you. Everyone’s trying to take anything that you’ve you’ve done right away from you and everyone’s trying to sort of ah prevent you from getting where you want to go particularly if you have a unique or novel idea. Um. And and so I think discipline is is absolutely fundamental to both the good luck I’ve had in in life and in business. But also the success of our business.

Alejandro Cremades: So let’s talk about going at it on your own. Let’s talk about beowulf. How does the the idea of really going into business and venturing on your own. How did that come about. Okay.

Paul Prager: You know when when I when I left the um, the Navy and I told you I went sawman brothers in Marvin Davis but I was fairly entrepreneurial and in fact, at the time Goldman Sachs was representing Montana ah Montana Power Company which was converting over into a telecom I think was touch America um, and it was shedding some of its power assets so I ended up bidding for their um, their power unregulated power subsidiary continental energy services and I was bidding against big. Big corporations 10 naska you know, just real big power companies and I just was representing myself and a couple of people that were with me then and are still with me today by the way Douglas all Jim Oterra um and and bid in a in a wall street if you will house sponsored. Auction process where we had to deliver the ability to to demonstrate the ability that we knew how to value the asset that we could pay for it that we could afford it and it it took a lot of scrambling. It took a lot of guts. It took a lot of relationship management. Um, but we succeeded we ended up buying. Ah, continental energy service and auction beat out a bunch of other much higher bidders to include Enron was a bidder in that process. Um, and then we had the basis an asset basis with people that we then were able to scale. So we then took that and.

Paul Prager: We bought the unregulated power subsidier of Montana and Dakota utilities. Also another gomansex process. Um, where we were both the best bidder but a shrewd bidder and and we made we did very well on on both those assets I mean there were a number of power plants in them. We fixed them. We kept the people. We sold some we refinanced others but it was all about um, staying on message which was contracted power generation at the time.

Alejandro Cremades: So obviously beow wolfie saying what really sparked. Um, you know the 2 of you guys. You know at the end of the day to come together so before talking to that now we’re gonna re reverserse back engineer again and we’re gonna go with Nasar because everything started in India so Nazar born in India. But then eventually you come to the us so talk to us as well about you know the the early days for you. So.

Nazar Khan: Sure sure born in India but raised in the states. You know, typical immigrant story. You know my father came to to study the United States um we ended up in the midwest as far away from India as you could think you know geographically. Climate wise socially. My father was ah a lifelong student. He did ah ah a bachelor’s a master’s in a ph d before he decided he wanted to become a a medical physician and did an Md and throughout that my mother you know was you know the main bread were in a family and so she was working. And when she had the chance to not work. She couldn’t really sit at home and so she started a business and so from a young age I saw saw how businesses were formed and created my mother’s you know, just a high school graduate but she was able to kind of take a business and and build it up and so that was you know my childhood junior high school and high school where I saw you know what my mother did.

Alejandro Cremades: And what about what about the ambition you know to and and the drive that you got from see your parents coming to this country to really provide a better future. You know for for you guys for the family I’m sure that that shaped you quite a bit as you know as a human.

Nazar Khan: And so I did.

Nazar Khan: Yeah I mean you know for them to come to a place where the language is their second language they don’t really understand how the system works and to kind of just show up and figure it out I think you know really had a big impact on me and if you think about entrepreneurship a lot of the times it’s dissimilar. Concept right? I mean things aren’t clear.. There’s no well defined or Well-trod path and you just are out there kind of figuring things out so seeing how they were able to just show up and and figure things out you know for for themselves and for their family did have an impact in how you know I approach things as well.

Alejandro Cremades: So it sounds like then after that you went to you pen and then New York City you know is where everything started for you during the early days of your professional career. Now you did the investment banking. You know they are mainly what what would you say cut your eye about investment banking.

Nazar Khan: It was more you know I’d worked in an after graduating college I worked in a job for six months and quit you know because it wasn’t for me that was in the banking space tried to do something entrepreneurially that didn’t go well, you know spent a year trying to start a business in the student housing space that that. That we failed that you know my my partner and I at the time you know a friend from college failed that then went back to work and so you know what banking really provided was more of a network and a skill set. You know the ability to to work. You know amongst you know peers who were you know active in capital raising and structuring deals and also then creating a network and so. Got back into it more because I needed a reset than necessarily That’s what I wanted to do and I was only there you know on the second state of banking was only there for eighteen months before I jump ship again.

Alejandro Cremades: Now you were alludic to it. You know earlier to about you starting with a friend you know something in the student housing you know segment you know as the same goes you either succeed or you learn right? So what was the lesson for you to be taken from that experience.

Nazar Khan: Yeah, um I mean I think if we had if we were any good I Think if we had done investments at that time it would have been fabulously successful. But what it really came down to was. You know we didn’t have a a nuanced understanding of how to put things together. You know we didn’t understand how to raise Capital We didn’t understand how to structure debt. And we could put a spreadsheet together that looked at a building and analyze you know what we thought the cash flows would be how we could raise rents but we didn’t really understand the nuances of how to bring a business together and so it was really that experience in understanding that while your idea may be spot on. If The execution and implementation isn’t there and it really doesn’t do do much for you And so yeah I mean it was a a good learning experience just to be able to understand you know, really where where we came up short.

Alejandro Cremades: So it sounds that the experience also with Piper Jeffrey was shortlid. So why why going at it again with a different flavor with evercore.

Nazar Khan: I need a reset I mean I was 22 years old had no experience no money and so you know that’s a a good way to kind of get back in the game is is to go to an institution that has you know a good reputation brand and you’re working with you know, smart driven ambitious people. So. Think there’s a tremendous value in having the ability to kind of plug into a network like that.

Alejandro Cremades: So eventually, you receive a a call or you’re in a conversation with Paul Prager: you know which is saying evercore was saying ultimately what allowed for your guys’ paths to cross. But one day you know there is a you know poll you know that tells you hey you know when you want to do real business. You give me a call. What did he meant with that and what happened next and nsr.

Nazar Khan: Yeah I was so sitting at my desk and I still remember the day he showed up at the door to the to the office he said hey I said turned over and said hey how are you doing you know I’d met Paul a couple times. He asked me a few questions on how I was doing what was happening and. He was leaving he said hey listen you know when you really want to to have fun doing business and engage in real business. You know, give me a call and you know Paul you know when you meet Paul I mean extremely charismatic. Um, and. You know you’re just attracted to him and so you know I’d spent some time with Paul got to understand his background and where he’d been in business and really I think what he was saying to me is is hey if you really didn’t want to try to build something you know, give me a call and you know we can kind of you know, go at it and it didn’t take much more than that in whether I was naive or you know. Really optimistic or whatever. It may be um, you know there was I think you know even from that conversation and affinity that you know really resonated with me and so I didn’t really tell this to Paul but you know last thought about it you know and again I’ve been at a job I quit after six months I go do try to do something I fail. I go back to ah a more traditional job and then do I really want to jump ship again and first job I was on there six months you know I quit and the my manning director who id you know reported to said if you just wait six months you know they’ get a bonus and I said I understand but you know I’m not really.

Nazar Khan: Here just for a year’s bonus if I dont want to do it enough. I’m not gonna be here and at ever core again I kind of left after eighteen months similar situation. You know if I’d saved another six months I could gotten another bonus but you know part wasn’t there and so it really was more with you know, trying to figure out how I could be at a place where I could you know. Build something and to Paul’s credit from the first day on Paul never really treated me like an employee. He treated me like you know a friend and a partner. He said go figure things out you know and obviously he guided me. He mentored me he was there to discuss all of these things but you know from a very early age you know. He also gave me the ability to try to figure things out. So so that’s what I saw and that’s kind of what what I jumped at.

Alejandro Cremades: So obviously you figure things out and finally you know you join Paul and here you guys are you know, working together at Beowulf I guess the question there is how did the you know perhaps like seeing the market and taking a look at the market. How did that you know perhaps say created some pivots and some opportunities for you guys to ending up. You know, ah taking action and and and and really bringing Tara wolf to life Paul.

Paul Prager: Yeah I just want to go back to your last question with nasr because I think there’s an important element here for an entrepreneur which is it’s all about character. You know these days when you hire people 200 lawyers are involved lots of beatings all sorts of contract terms. Nasr just showed up in our office one day. My assistant came in and said there’s this tall fellow here and I asked him who he is and he said his name is nar and I asked what he does and he said he works here and that was that was the agreement that Naza a and I have had and the only agreement oral agreement that Nazar a and I were written that we’ve lived with for the last. 20 years I mean and and I would tell you that it’s true also downstream from us with the rest of our leadership team. There aren’t these fancy contracts with promises here and promises there and we work as a team and you have to have the right people. And you have to like each other you have to trust one another and you got to be able to sort of keep it together with when things are great and when things aren’t so great. So I was very fortunate that when Nasar came he he shared we were simpatico in that in that regard in terms of your your question I’m sorry to have gotten sidetracked. Um, you know we were in the power space and and we were in an ah area of the power space which was it was pretty narrow right? We we were in contracted power generation. So we would own a power asset. We would source fuel on a long-term basis. We’d sell the electricity on a long-term basis. We would finance it then we would operate the facility.

Paul Prager: Um, but power started to change and evolve and and the people that bought power would would change the terms on which they wanted to buy it. They didn’t want to have 20 year deals they wanted short-term deals some wanted to just pay spot market prices as opposed to long-term fix prices so it made it sort of untenable for us to carry. Um, to carry these assets and work for a small margin because it took the whole risk reward equation out of whack. Um, so it was in that in the realization of that that we were constantly searching for. Okay, what’s the next opportunity and one of the opportunities would be. We would develop our own power plant. So we’d go into sort of the early stage development where you could create a larger margin but another opportunity was on the backside of this power plant which is what’s what’s happening with the electricity and who are you selling it to and Naza was early on an adopter. Of a bitcoin I mean really early on um and and suggested that we could ultimately sort of take our electricity which is it. It doesn’t really have a storage component to it. You know they they keep talking about batteries but you you really can’t store electricity officially for the most part and his idea was. Let’s turn it into bitcoin because on the margins that’s the leading the leading cost to manufacturing bitcoin and then we have something that’s valuable and good and also portable and it was in that that led us into a.

Paul Prager: A trade where we basically did that for another company in the Space. We built out a data Center. We sold him our electricity. We rented them land and we operated a facility. They only had 3 employees. We did all the rest of the work and and we took a significant equity position in the company. And that’s how we learned about bitcoin mining and it was it. It was in that endeavor that we decided we now know how to do this Now. We Want to do this for our living. Let’s do it ourselves and let’s take all the lessons learned from doing it for someone else. Optimize get better and let’s.

Alejandro Cremades: So now. So.

Paul Prager: Let’s do our own company and that’s dere wolf.

Alejandro Cremades: So now when we’re talking about our own company Terraol Nasar for the people that are listening why ended up being the business model of terrawol. How are you guys making money.

Nazar Khan: Fundamentally we are a we mine bitcoin so we produce procure power we procure electricity at the lowest cost possible terolf is a 0 carbon bitcoin miner meaning. Almost all of the electrons. We consume come from 0 carbon energy sources hydro Nuclear Predominantly we run them through a bunch of machines that are dedicated specifically mine bitcoin and produce bitcoin on the backend in our last month you know we generate about 350 bitcoin you know last month kind of going forward. We should be hitting about 500 bitcoin a month you know the next couple months here so we are a producer of a bitcoin. You know that’s kind of what people look at. But if you really kind of peel the onion a little bit you know fundamentally we’re a converter and that was what we were as. We were in the power business as Paul had mentioned we were procuring fuel fuel whether that’s coal or gas or kind of the wind or the sun running it through a turbine and generating electricity. Fundamentally we’re you know, converting a fuel source running it through a turbine in a generator to to produce electricity and so bitcoin mining is. Effectively the conversion of a kilowatt hour of electricity you run it through a machine called nasi and you generate hash which you know translates into to bitcoin produced and so again, fundamentally we are a converter of a 1 product into you know this global commodity called bitcoin.

Alejandro Cremades: And and also how has it been you know Nasar years to double click on that do that advantage of you guys being able to build this as a really vertical. You know, integrated type of operation right.

Nazar Khan: That’s critical I mean at the end of the day you know our view and what we tell you know people is that fundamentally the mining of bitcoin is an infrastructure play and understanding how to procure power how to locate loads to to consume power. Is critical to the efficient and low- costt production of of bitcoin and so the team that we have you know Paul myself and and the rest of the team is the very same team that developed an operated known power plants and so that very same skill set about understanding how the grid works how to connect loads to the grid. That very same skill set is relevant in in what we do with respect to bitcoin mining and you know we have been able to. You know we’ve probably put up four hundred Megawatts of capacity in the last few years to mine bitcoin and I would say you know if any group that’s out there. That’s probably you know top 3 or 4 you know, kind of you know nationwide in terms of you know how much you know. Infrastructure. That’s been put up by by a group and so that same skill set that same understanding of the supply chain for the equipment for the transformers you know distribution panels. There’s all of the same work that goes into putting up bitcoin mining facility. So that vertical integration. Um. Is key to how we produce bitcoin at the lowest possible cost.

Alejandro Cremades: So I yeah um I see that you guys are listed on Nasdaq you know and I believe that you guys have raised in over 400000000 what has been the experience to of capitalizing the operation and going you know through the different cycles Paul.

Paul Prager: Yeah, um, listen, there’s a big difference between running a private company and running a public company and um, when you when you run a a private company. You take a view and you focus on execution when you run a public company. Um. You you take a view but you need to be mindful of the perception of of everything you do um, you don’t want to really focus a Ceo on your stock price but at the at the end of the day it is important because it’s something that shareholders look at and and will judge you on. And so I think being aware of every every step along the way and it it cuts time in in half and half and half and half and half every single thing you do You’re really doing it. In much shorter time bites because you can’t just say hey this is what we’re going to do. We’re going to go off and build it and then six months later you show up, you’re in a very competitive environment. You’re being judged all the time and perception is important so that leads to you got to be able to communicate and and I think that. Um, we have sort of I think led the way in terms of our financial transparency in what is you know nascent space and I think that’s because we have a fantastic cfo patrick flurry and chief strategic officer Terry Limeless um so I think communication is the next part of it.

Paul Prager: And then you have to lead I mean you have to be able to sort of do what you tell people you’re going to go do So What we’ve tried to do is be very conservative in a space that’s by the way not so conservative and tell people what we what we’re going to do and then focus on delivering on it. Um. Think over time. That’s that’s caused our investors to continue to come back? Um, and bolster our our shareholder Community. So I think I think those are the big lessons learned for me. Um, and again, um. Ah, public company is a great privilege because you’ve you’ve got a fiduciary duty to your investors. It’s an honor and you don’t want to disappoint So You’re all in you know this is this is It’s not a job.. It’s a lifestyle.

Alejandro Cremades: I hear you I hear you now so double click on that poll you know, obviously you know with the investment there is a as you were saying you know it’s say the fiduciary duty but also they’re they’re betting too on a vision right? and and I think that division is not just applied to the way that. You onboard investors is also applied to the way that you onboard employees and then also customers. So with that being said, imagine if you guys were to go to sleep tonight and you wake up in a world where the vision of terra wolf is fully realized. What does that world look like let’s start with Paul Prager.

Paul Prager: Well, you’re starting with the the body country here. The visionary is Nasar but but for me I will tell you that um our shareholders are Happy. We have retained all our employees. We continue to scale our business so that we’re we’re. We’re making bitcoin at the lowest possible and most competitive price. Um, we remain 0 carbon because I think that’s an important part of our vision and that no one else Out. There has truly embraced I mean we were in the power Business. We had every kind of power Asset. We. We set up Terool. To actually mine bitcoin Zero Carbon. So We think it’s a good thing because we think Bitcoin’s really good. It gives it’s it’s it’s it’s important to have money. That’s not controlled by some government’s dictation on Monetary policy. But we’re also doing it the right Way. So I think that’s an important element. And then I think that we probably added other data center you know optionality to our facilities because I think that the world is about Data data is unbelievably valuable and and and we want to be the best at the lowest cost compute Time. So. I I Want to do exactly what we’re doing I Just want to scale it and I want to do it with the same people and at the lowest possible cost and at zero carbon.

Alejandro Cremades: So that’s our feel free to expand.

Nazar Khan: Sure, um, you know when people ask you know when you know why should you invest in taroolf and you know I think there’s ah, a couple of large macro themes that are that you’re playing know one obviously is bitcoin right? I mean we we mine bitcoin we produce it at a low cost and if you are. Bullish on your view of bitcoin. You know there’s there’s there’s value to be had there. But in addition to that you know what really brought us into the space is that you know if you think about just the concept of electricity and its importance in driving economic development prosperity kind of wealth. You know, power and electricity is critical to that and you know you pick kind of you know what? your modern convenience is you know there’s some you know touch, you know to power and kind of power supports that and you know what’s happening with respect to power is is that you know there is a massive. Technological shift occurring on how that power is produced. You know if you go back 40 or fifty years ago you know you got a system of resources that were dispatchable. You know, coal and coal assets initially then kind of we know with the onset of natural gas natural gas resources where those assets were dispatched to meet the changes in the demand. You know in any given day you know demand of power is very low at 2 in the morning and at 2 in the afternoon. It’s kind of close to its peak and every single day you go through that same cycle and every season has its own. You know specificities rounded as well and when you think about how that system was developed. It was developed to meet the peak demand.

Nazar Khan: You want to be able to have power available when the system is at its highest and so that’s when it’s either. You know, really hot or really cold just depending upon where you are, but that means by definition there’s a ton of flex in the system.

Paul Prager: Um, oh.

Nazar Khan: You know the the delta between you know what? the demand is at 2 in the afternoon is you know, 2 times what it is at 2 in the morning and all of that’s fixed cost and so the other thing that you’re really playing with terra wolff right? is this transition that’s occurring you know with respect to the production of energy which is critical to you know every kind of facet of modern life. And the cost of producing that and the source of that is just changing again. There’s a big concertive push to decarbonize it. You know terribleol if it’s a 0 carbon energy minor and so fundamentally you know within that we are also leading the charge on how the energy grid is transitioning. And if you think about the size of the electricity market. It’s massive. Not just the United States but in jurisdictions you know all across the world and fundamentally there’s a shift kind of ongoing there and so you know hard to wake up you know tomorrow and tariff has realized you know all of its its goals fundamentally we are a leader in kind of how that transition is occurring. We are a leader in how loads should be integrated back to the grid and how those loads are paid for and compensated and how they interact and so in addition to all the things that Paul mentioned about you know, mining of bitcoin and being converting you know electricity into data fundamentally There’s also this piece of it. You know again going back to our entrepreneurial roots where fundamentally we are helping shape how that transition is occurring on the energy grid and some of the tools that we’re using to manage our bitcoin mining loads are also the very same tools that we think will be prevalent. You know across all uses you know within the energy space.

Alejandro Cremades: So obviously we’re talking about here vision. We’re talking about the future now I want to talk about the past but doing so with a lyn of reflection and I’m gonna put you both into time machine and we’re gonna go back in time we’re gonna go back to perhaps 2020 where you guys were thinking about you know the idea of Tara Wolf you know, maybe building something around this right before you actually execute it you know and and corporate or registered you know, officially in February 2021 but let’s say I give you guys the opportunity of going back in time. And maybe yeah, joining one of those conference rooms where you guys were both sitting down and and brainstorming together about what could terra wolf or the idea of what would become terrawolf and let’s say you have the opportunity of entering there and giving your younger selves.

Nazar Khan: Probably.

Alejandro Cremades: 1 piece of advice before launching Tara Wolf what would that be and why given what you know now let’s start with nassar.

Nazar Khan: It’s things don’t move in a straight line. So I mean I think we have largely accomplished what we thought we would do. But the way we have done that is nowhere close to what I had thought so you know. Kind of take the starting point the endpoint that where we’re at you could kind of draw a nice line in between those 2 points. But I think you know, kind of the course that we’ve taken to get there is is far more chaotic and volatile and so just you know recognizing that you know while you’re working towards that goal.

Alejandro Cremades: What about you? Paul Prager.

Nazar Khan: Things always don’t quite a straight line.

Paul Prager: You know I think time has been a critical element to a lot of our challenges but also success I mean when we ended up doing a reverse merger. It was at the time the peak time for scc really looking at the space. So. We thought we’d be coming out a year earlier than we ended up coming out so when we ended up coming out. We we came out you know, right? at the time that bitcoin started to get devalued which was pretty tough because we didn’t have the. Credibility with the market or the space to really communicate how we were going to handle that downturn. So I think thinking about time and how we could have maybe hedge that or how I would hedge it in the future or think about it would have been 1 thing and then I think the other is um.

Paul Prager: We We We really were very focused on esg as an important element to the company and I think it’s a very important element to the principles of the company and I hope to a lot of our shareholders but in a bear market Nobody values it in a bear Market. Nobody gives a you know what? on. Fact that you’re doing it the right way and clean and and all that sort of good stuff. They really care about value of the bitcoin period and so I think that we probably Um. We were communicating too much along an esg line instead of a hey we’re still the low cost most competitive operator out here. So I think it would have changed how we would have communicated with our future public shareholders.

Alejandro Cremades: Now for the people that are listening that are super inspired that will love to reach out and say hi. What is the best way for them to do so nasar.

Paul Prager: Who same it’s prager Terro Wolff Dot Com I mean we try and respond to everybody we you know it’s it’s important we got it. We have to be able to communicate.

Nazar Khan: Ah, just reach me email HanKHAN at

Alejandro Cremades: What about you? Paul Prager.

Paul Prager: Affirmatively why we’re the best company in the space and why people should buy into us.

Alejandro Cremades: I love it? Well hey guys. Thank you so much for being on the deal maker show. It has been an honor to have you with us today.

Nazar Khan: Thank you.

Paul Prager: Thank you.


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