In a recent episode of the Dealmakers’ Podcast, Nick Damiano, a seasoned entrepreneur and visionary in the field of healthcare technology, shared his journey from being born into a medical family to becoming a founder of groundbreaking startups. His experiences, setbacks, and triumphs offer valuable lessons for aspiring entrepreneurs and healthcare innovators.
His latest venture, Andromeda Surgical, attracted funding from top-tier investors like Y Combinator, BBQ Capital, Attack Capital, and Pioneer Fund.
In this episode, you will learn:
- Embrace change and use it as a catalyst for growth and innovation.
- Consider diverse perspectives and experiences when forming a founding team.
- Telepresence and technological solutions can revolutionize traditional industries like healthcare.
- Careful co-founder selection and equity planning are crucial for long-term success.
- Maintain a balance between cautious deliberation and decisive action in critical decisions.
- Cross-disciplinary innovation holds the key to transformative advancements in healthcare.
- Strive for outcomes that lead to improved patient care, efficiency, and reduced costs in the healthcare industry.
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About Nick Damiano:
Nick Damiano is the Founder & serves as Chief Executive Officer at Andromeda Surgical. He served as Chief Strategy Officer at APstem Therapeutics.
Nick is an Angel Investor. Previously, he co-founded and served as Chief Executive Officer, Principal, President & Board Member at Zenflow. He also co-founded Nurep.
Nick brings 5 years of experience as an engineer in the medical device industry and developed key algorithms for a leadless cardiac pacing device at EBR Systems. He earned his MS and BS with Distinction in Management Science & Engineering from Stanford University.
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Read the Full Transcription of the Interview:
Alejandro Cremades: All righty hello everyone and welcome to the dealmakerr show. So do we have a very exciting founder. You know he’s done in multiple times. Very authentic guy I got to tell you think we’re going to be learning quite a bit you know from his journey from all, you know the things that he’s done. You know whether he’s building financing. You know turning page you on and and keep building I mean it’s really remarkable his journey very inspiring so without further ado. Let’s welcome our guest to a Nick Damiano welcome to the show. So originally born in North Carolina
Nick Damiano: Thanks Alejandro great to be here.
Alejandro Cremades: But then moved eventually to Pennsylvania so guess I walked through memory lane. How was life growing up.
Nick Damiano: Yeah, so um I was born to a medical family and my dad was a surgeon and he was at at Duke initially doing his residency. We ended up moving around quite a bit kind of around the East Coast um and so it was.
Nick Damiano: Something that made me learn to to deal with with change I mean 1 thing that I think this is kind of what shaped me into to who I am now as ah as a founder is ah getting constantly uprooted and having to figure things out in a new place. Um, so having to kind of build new things from scratch.
Alejandro Cremades: Now in in your case you know, eventually you know you you had the idea of wanting to become a doctor I mean how did that thought incubated.
Nick Damiano: Yeah I mean having been around doctors ah seen my dad in the operating room and so on it seemed like the the right path I had some some family pressure to to become a doctor. Ah but in the end when I came to the west coast went to Stanford for undergrad. And was just entrenched in the startup scene started taking some entrepreneurship classes and just seeing what was going on this is back in the the early 2000 ah it was just too tempting for me to get into the startup world and I ended up deciding to quit premed become an engineer. And go work for startups which which also had the benefit of being a much faster pathway to get started on building things I mean be a doctor you have to go through med school residency. It’s a long pathway. So I think it was also a little bit of impatience.
Alejandro Cremades: Because for the people that are listening I mean how is it to to be in Stanford and and have all these people building stuff around you.
Nick Damiano: Yeah I mean it’s it’s it’s pretty inspiring and coming from the East Coast where it’s a very different culture around or at least it it was then I think entrepreneurship has grown in lots of different places now but it was a different world for me coming from the medical academic world from my family. And then seeing all these great founders and startup employees that were building amazing things that that really were changing the world. It was the the allur of that was hard to resist.
Alejandro Cremades: So eventually, you know for you, you went into startup world and the first job that you took there. You know was with um basically ah, a company. You know that you actually stayed there for quite a bit. I mean we’re talking about 4 years you know it sounds like eventually you know you wanted to do something of your own. So what do you think you know watch what you needed you know to give you that push to to enter the eventual world.
Nick Damiano: Yeah I mean I had a few setbacks early in my career where I joined startups that didn’t end up working out in the end and that was one of those cases. The company actually did come back and recovered recaped and ended up doing pretty well that I was an engineer at um, but what I saw so when. When these these companies didn’t pan out I started thinking more and more that I just wanted to have the the control in my own hands and be able to have more determination over whether the company succeeded. Ah so I mean whether I failed or succeeded. I I would have myself to blame as opposed to just being at the whim of whoever was leading it so then that really pushed me to at least look into founding a company and then after leaving that that company where I was an engineer after things didn’t work out then I think it was about. Just a few months later that I met my initial cofounders from my first company at a meetup.com event and then we decided to go and and start something.
Alejandro Cremades: I mean that’s ah quite the leap you know going from a meet up you know, ah meeting people like strangers to all of us other and saying hey I want to go into the unknown you know for your first company walk us through that thought process.
Nick Damiano: Yeah I mean I think I’ve always been a little bit of an entrepreneur so I was tending in that direction for sure and I mean I had started a few small businesses in college and even as a kid some startup like things that I had worked on. Ah but so I was looking very heavily into either. Founding a company or being a very early employee and in the end when I met my cofounders ah and we figured out what we’re going to work on for for my first company. It’s called New Rep eventually was renamed as Avail. We really felt like that was something that that had potential and we could.
Nick Damiano: At least have a decent chance to build it and start selling it and launching it so we gave it a ago I think the naivete we had back then is first time founders probably helped us I’ve learned since then that it’s it’s easy to reject things for different reasons. Maybe we wouldn’t have pursued it if ah if we hadn’t had that. Naivete but we did and I think it was all for the better.
Alejandro Cremades: Because what ended up being the business model of a will met systems.
Nick Damiano: Yeah, so basically it’s it’s telepresence for the operating room and that’s what it is now and it’s what it was back in the early days of ah of new rep in 2012 so we saw medical device reps were. Going to different hospitals and spending all this time going traveling around shuttling devices waiting going through credentialing processes and thought that it would be a lot more efficient to have them supported remotely sport cases remotely. So then we. Just started building towards that model. It was really tough in the beginning because this is 2012 and we were working on three g in a lot of these hospitals. We didn’t have good wi-fi connections and ah people really weren’t used to digital health products like this interfacing with their wi-fi so that was was really a struggle. So it was kind of before its time we did convince. We built the product. We convinced a few med tech companies and hospitals to to get on board. It’s very slow going I think when you’re shifting the paradigm like that it’s you’re going to face a lot of resistance but eventually we started making traction.
Alejandro Cremades: So with a company with avail I mean you guys weren’t one of the first met tech companies to be founded by YCombinator so how was it like going through YCombinator you know special as ah, ah the next company’s enflow so we’ll we’ll talk about that one in in just in just a little bit but I guess.
Nick Damiano: That was my next company. Yeah, yeah.
Alejandro Cremades: With availment systems. You know at what point does it become clear that it’s time to really you know turn page because I mean obviously the company you know has saying really done pretty well you know, raced over I believe it’s one ah 20000000 you know rumors of perhaps you know in close to the billion dollar valuation so was that moment where you decide that it’s time to turn page.
Nick Damiano: Yeah I mean as as we talked about before with that company. My cofounders and I got together at a at a meetup and I think it’s ah it’s a good lesson in the fact that you really need to make sure that you. Are well aligned with with your cofounders and make make sure things are set up in the right way in the beginning So We made some mistakes I think both not vetting each other well enough and and also as far as the things like equity ownership and just other structural issues weren’t really thought through well enough in the beginning and. In the end. Ah I ended up deciding to leave because because of certain reasons around those those elements I ended up deciding to found a new company which is my second ones Nflow and it’s really tough to undo situations like that. So I Think if we had. Thought through things more in the beginning that maybe things would have turned out differently. It’s it’s tough but you know you learn from these things and then you you go on to be stronger and I felt like coming out of that made me stronger for my next company and at least knew some things to do and not to do.
Alejandro Cremades: So what was that transition like um, you know now that you’re getting you know on to your next business you know and now you know it’s a it’s time to to start again from scratch with sendflow. You know how was that transition.
Nick Damiano: Yeah, so I definitely put a lot of lot more time into the initial structure and I think yet to be careful to to not overindex on things that have burned you in the past but then also to learn from your lessons so finding that balance was was key. And did get to know my cofounder a lot better coming into zendflow and that relationship was was pretty strong throughout the time that we worked together for 8 years So I ended up working out well and in that regard I really wanted to get back into the into things that were directly. I guess helping patients so avail was I mean it does help patients in a kind kind of an indirect way where it it helps doctors in the operating room get better support for cases which can be really gamechanging but I wanted to do something that was therapeutically useful that was going to directly impact patients. It’s really been. 1 of my goals even when I decided to to not be a doctor anymore I I wanted to help patients directly so decided to get back into the medical device or therapeutic product world and my cofounder and I ended up co-inventing a. Device to treat bph or in largege prostate minimally invasively and thought it was really promising. So even against the advice of our our advisors who thought it was going to be too heavy of a lift for us to to build as a company. We went ahead and and started it.
Alejandro Cremades: So then now let’s talk about a y commminator. How was you know going through y commator with sendflow.
Nick Damiano: It was really I mean honestly kind of life changing I mean we I was still even though I had been a founder before and I had I had done it for a few years I think I still had a lot to learn and my cofounders certainly did too who came from from Fda and had been. I guess an Fda and a big company engineer so had not really had much exposure to anything like being a founder and it was really interesting because we were the first med tech company that yyc ever funded and so the the people that were leading at the partners were not really well-versed on Med Techch at all we wanted to keep an open mind and come in with the mindset of there’s a lot of general principles that are useful to to startups in all categories that we can learn from here. There will be certain things that are not ah relevant necessarily There’s I mean there’s things that are um. Applicable to software startups like the whole ah move fast and break things philosophy where you don’t want to necessarily break things when it’s um, a patient’s health at stake. So. There’s there’s things that you have to to kind of recognize are not necessarily applicable. But um. Really put us in a place where we were thinking much bigger than just med tech the med tech orthodoxy and that made us a different kind of company that moved faster and thought differently and that’s what really helped us get over that early hump because med techch funding was was just terrible at the time.
Nick Damiano: That’s why a lot of people that were revising us thought that there was just no Chance. We raise the funding needed to get the clinic and then get through the multiple stages of trials that an implantable device requires but out of Y C I mean demo day was incredibly Helpful. We weren’t exactly one of the hottest companies at demo day as as a medical device company but we were kind of middle of the road and Even. Middle the road companies at Yc demo day do pretty Well so we raised a good seat round got to the clinic and had this mentality of just um, moving fast and and pushing through barriers that that really served us well throughout the the lifetime of of znflow.
Alejandro Cremades: And what do you think happened there. What do you think was the breakthrough to all of a sudden you know like you guys started to really pave the way there on the mythtic you know space started to you know, get some recognition because I mean at the end of the day you guys ended up racing. Seventy million bucks so I mean that’s ah over seventy million bucks so that’s ah, a significant amount of money.
Nick Damiano: Yeah I think as the as the new generation of of medtech founders has come up and I think this is also inspired by a lot of these programs like Stanford biodesign where I was involved. Um, many years back and other. Probably hundreds of programs throughout the world that are really focused on med tech innovation. There’s been this new generation of people that are coming into the med tech world that are going to places like y combinator and looking to other kinds of startups for for inspiration I think that’s really changed the med tech world from where it was let’s say twenty years ago the last generation had ah had a certain set of beliefs on how you build a med tech company that were kind of outdated in the the new era of med techch and I think the new founders have really thought a lot more about just making sure upfront before you go and spend tens of millions building a product that it’s actually something people want. Like the yc mantra is build something people want and think that’s paraded spaces like medtech too where you make sure the market factors are well- lined up to accept the product and then also find just super fast and lean ways to ah to do things and that’s really necessary in the the current environment where. Especially now and in 2023 with the the interest rates in the economy the way it is now that you really have to move fast and be lean to to make things happen.
Alejandro Cremades: So let’s say double click here on the on the actual journey and the experience of going through raising that 70000000 because when you guys raised this series a you know it was a tough times you know literally you were within days of running out of money so who do you think you needed to be at that moment as a leader.
Nick Damiano: And.
Alejandro Cremades: And then also the company the way that you know ah things unfolded on the team. You know how they push through in order to really get it through the finish line you know and getting that money in you know I’m sure it was not easy.
Nick Damiano: Yeah, that was one of the most memorable and and trying times as a founder that I’ve had and it was really stressful. So we we realized we had raised about 5 or 6000000 to get us through our initial clinical data and this is an implantable device. So. It’s not easy. You’re playing medtech on hard mode and. Gotten some data from outside the us that was was pretty good. You know it wasn’t world beating but it was was good enough. We thought it it made sense to go ahead and and keep doing trials and felt like we were in a ah, pretty strong place to raise money but the market for early stage metech at the time and honestly most of the time since 2008 has been. really really tough especially for inexperienced founders where in most of the money most the big rounds. Let’s say for med tech companies are going to probably 10 or 15 people that are just in the pantheon of med tech and are well established with multiple exits. We were definitely not that. Ah. So it was. It was a struggle we had to play the numbers game and go to as many investors as possible I think we had a a ah crm um of 200 investors we were talking to. We were trying to play a few different strategies in parallel trying to get smaller investors to to commit and lead the round. We ended up getting a great small investor to. Kind of lead the series a even with ah a small check even though it ended up being ah a round of about 26000000 in new cash. We had an investor that put in 3000000 lead the round which was a little bit unconventional for us and and a little weird for the investor but it ended up working out well in the end.
Nick Damiano: We had a few setbacks with investors who basically committed and then didn’t work out for various reasons so we started to get to the end of our runway and at that point it was I was really worried that I mean either we would I guess the worst case scenario is we run out of money and we’re just done. Um. Kind of the second worst thing was that we lose a lot of our team who might realize that there they could be out of a job within a couple of months um so it was important to I mean first of all have the confidence that we were going to close it and just go out and pound the pavement and talk to as many investors as possible and. Try to you know, figure out different scenarios to at least close some of the money upfront and get to a first close which we did and then also talk to the team and message that confidence that like hey I can’t I can’t guarantee you 100 % that this is going to work out but I feel very very confident that it will and once we get past this milestone. We’re going to be in a much stronger place and we’re going to need you to be here and build the next stage of this company and everyone stayed. It was amazing because everyone stayed and every every month at the team meeting I was putting up the. The cash runway and it kept getting smaller and smaller where I had to change the resolution from months to weeks and the last meeting I think it was like okay we’re going to make the next payroll the next one we won’t make and um I feel confident. We’re going to close this round or at least get enough funding in to to keep this going. Um.
Nick Damiano: But I can’t care and guarantee you that and then it was really it was three days before we were going to misspayroll that we finally pulled it out and then we we all went and and had a big big celebration and I mean it was just such a a relief and such an exciting empowering moment to close that funding and and be ready and and have the whole team intact and. And eager to build the next stages.
Alejandro Cremades: That’s amazing now. Obviously the rest is history and you guys were able to really you know, get things going and and create something really powerful there with samflow now. One of the things there that that I think will be interesting to touch on is board dynamics. What can you tell us about Bor Dynamics and also giving up control that perhaps you learn in terms of lessons. You know as part of the experience with sunflow.
Nick Damiano: Yeah I mean I for Zflow so we had a board since the series a that was controlled majority by investors really and um, it’s I think a lot of Founders. Don’t want to be in that position usually in Med Tech It’s hard to avoid it. So I’m not sure we could have done much to avoid that. Being the case and for for some amount of time I think that went pretty well. Um at some point on multiple on on many companies boards the founders and investors especially ones that are more conventionally minded or more conservative might disagree on on their vision for the company. And if you if you lose board control then you’re going to have to either convince them or go along with something that’s not really what you what you want to be doing and in in this case I mean I Think. It came to a bit of an impasse where there really wasn’t ah a path forward for for me leading the company and um in the end I had to to step step down and it was It was really. It was really tough. Um, it was hard to do that. It was hard to see the company kind of go in a direction that. That I didn’t necessarily want it to go and didn’t feel was right for the company. Um, but in the end it was I don’t regret um the way things went at all I think that it was was good to move on and um, you end up like like with my my prior.
Nick Damiano: Setbacks where you know a company I work for 1 under or decide to leave a company because of a cofounder issue. You really if you if you handle these in the right way these setbacks then you you can learn a lot from them and come out much stronger and I feel like in that case this case that that definitely happened There’s just so many lessons learned. And so many ways that the next time around that I’ll I’ll do things better but I would say to to founders that are considering giving up board control just to if you have to give up control vet people that are going to be on yourboard to whatever extent, you can. You cannot spend too much time. Vetting them making sure they’re the right fit to send you have a choice and who they who ends up being underboard and then I wouldn’t I mean you you have to really fight for your own interests and if you want your vision to continue guiding the company. I mean don’t give up board seats. You don’t have to really fight for every seat and and make sure every person that does join the board is as as right as possible.
Alejandro Cremades: So obviously once an entrepreneur always an entrepreneur entrepreneur. So eventually, you got you got going you know with your latest baby on drum the surgical and it’s quite recent too. You know it’s saying you guys got started literally this year so how did you come up with. The idea why? what? What made you think that perhaps the problem was meaningful enough for you to take action here.
Nick Damiano: Yeah I think I mean from my own experience having been in lots of operating rooms. There are many many cases where surgery or procedures don’t go as well as you would hope they would and I’ve seen that through avail and zendflow and before that even back when I was. Observing my my dad and in the operating room in high school when I came in a couple times so it’s amazing. How many surgeries have complications and just don’t have things go as well as possible so that was kind of the meta need that we were thinking about I was also I mean from from zenflow and from other device companies I had advised. Ah. Just recognize that a lot of these devices are building these deployment mechanisms that are really complex and take a long time that you could probably automate and that was that was kind of an inspiration ah to build something in the robotic space I’ve also been really interested in in Ai in general and and. Came to the conclusion that the future of surgery is going to be robotic and also guided by Ai and in January of this year I met my cofounder Kartic ah from through the yc cofounder matching platform. And we he was from autonomous vehicles. So it’s a really interesting cofounder team I think 1 thing you you don’t see often in med tech is people from other spaces that come into med techch. It’s usually the the Fda stuff and just the the slow development cycles scare people away. But ah Karthik also came in with.
Nick Damiano: Having talked to surgical ah surgeon friends and family members and also having this belief that robotic autonomous surgery was going to be the future So we came in having this same interest in building this kind of a thing and then it came down to finding the.
Nick Damiano: Right? Starting point. So from Zflow having been in the urology space I knew lots of urologists so we were able to get probably 1520 urologists on the phone pretty quickly and feel out needs in that space. We also talked to other surgeons too. But because my network was so strong in Neurology we found of. Ah, few different interesting applications there and thought that there was just a huge room to improve on procedures that are being done now and then just started going with that and then so we we incorporated the company in April of this year so it’s just been about six months and it was really exciting to see that I talked to.
Nick Damiano: Friends friends that were investors in my prior companies and just wanted to feel out. Okay, how how interested would you be in funding this and I had a few that said on day one I’ll write you a check and they did. So once we incorporated we had these investors come in right away and um, you know there’s just tremendous enthusiasm from the investors from the. From the surgeons and so great way to to start and that the team’s really been a unique advantage I think I mean pulling someone in from outside the space who has built kind of similar technology but not in the same area is ah just a huge advantage.
Alejandro Cremades: And hey, no time you guys have been able to raise some money you know you guys have raised a a little bit over a six million bucks and literally you guys just are getting started so I’m sure that being a third time founder. You know it came in handy to raise some money you know how do you think that now. Dynamics from change on on raising money have changed for you and also what were you looking for in the investors that that you were looking for and how did you structure things differently.
Nick Damiano: Yet it. It helps a lot to be a third time founder and I think that inherently if you’ve built things that people consider somewhat impressive then then that that really makes your case stronger to raise and this is a really hard company to build I mean robotic autonomous surgery is. 1 of those things that I think as a first -time founder I wouldn’t have been able to to make work or to convince people I could actually build it but having those prior company experiences having built hardware and software for operating rooms in the past and you know having worked in neurology having strong clinical advisors all that stuff together. Really strengthen our argument so it was tough. We were in we were actually in y combinator again now the the first second time medtech founder to do to do yc and it’s tough with with first -time founders that we knew from the batch that they didn’t have those same advantages I mean I’ve I’ve kind of as my cofounder who’s also a thirdtime founder has. We fought through the trenches with our first 2 companies and now ah finally can finally reap some of the rewards of having that experience. Um, so that is an advantage in itself this time versus the last the last few funding rounds or the last few companies I’ve raised funding for. Really focused on getting the best investors I think we were a lot less picky about what investors we brought in with prior companies. Not to say that most of our investors weren’t great because most of them were in in the past few companies. But this time we really made sure that we only talked to the ones that that seemed like really.
Nick Damiano: Great fits ones that could be helpful Beyond the funds and any kind of red flag that we saw we would just not talk to that Investor. We wouldn’t We weren’t desperate enough that we would just really really take anybody and then as we we have thought a lot more about control for the company. So I’ve been a lot more. You don’t want to be overly delustion sensitive I mean I think. A lot of companies I see make the mistake where they set their valuation so high to minimize dilution that it impacts their raise we wanted to to come in a evaluation that we could we knew we could raise at but then also was high enough that we could minimize dilution So We’re kind of better at at reading markets and finding that sweet spot having had the experience. Um, we also one one thing that we we put into this company in the beginning that I’d recommend trying although I I’ve heard this. This can also be to often be taken out in venture rounds is having super voting shares for founders so you do want to have.
Nick Damiano: Some ability to to maintain more control even if we were to give up board control at some point and so that’s 1 provision that gives the founders more of a vote and what happens to the company later on and hopefully we’ll keep that in.
Alejandro Cremades: So let’s say you were to go to sleep tonight and you wake up in a world where the vision of andreda surgical is fully realized what does that world look like.
Nick Damiano: I’d say I mean it’ what we’re envisioning is ah is a radically different world when you talk about health care I mean it’s the the full vision I mean the the full vision as far as what this could be and in the best possible world is. So big that I think health care looks entirely different. Um I mean the goal is to eventually get into all different kinds of of surgery and I mean really make every surgeon able to to operate at the world level for every procedure every time I mean that’s. That’s the goal. So I think outcomes will be a whole lot better that you’re going to have patients that are a lot more confident going into surgery that their risk of something happened happening that’s um, adverse and averse event or complication is really minimal. So I mean you know we’d expect complication rates to come way down and. Just outcomes to be better people to recover faster and not have as many issues not have as many repeat surgeries. Um, and then it’ll be a lot faster I think 1 thing this this should do is empower people to be more efficient with surgery and get through it much faster so procedures where you know it’s taking. 2 hours now maybe we’ll take a half hour to do and then I mean they think a lot of the the wait times you see getting into surgery will also be reduced by that or the capacity of health care will be expanded and and maybe even um, you know the the cost can come down because it requires fewer resources both to.
Nick Damiano: Staff operating rooms for longer host patients for longer while they’re dealing with complications and then also to treat those complications.
Alejandro Cremades: So now let’s look at the future with a len of reflection. Let’s say I was to bring you back in time into a time machine. Put you on a time machine I bring you back in time maybe to that moment where you were thinking about launching something of your own and become a founder. And let’s say you had the opportunity of having a chat with that younger self and being able to give that younger nick 1 piece of advice before launching a business but would that be and why you know what you know now 3 companies in.
Nick Damiano: Yeah, it’s a really good question and I think like like I said before just making sure that whenever you get into any big decision that’s going to be company altering and that can be setting up the company bringing on a cofounder or a key Hire. You know how your fundraise looks bringing on. Board members either investors or independent. That’s all I mean it’s so critical. These things are all like marriages in a way and you wouldn’t go into a marriage haphazardly yet many founders go into these kinds of situations. Um without thinking about it. Nearly as much as they should so I would just advise myself to be extra careful in making those those choices and and being really sure that that it’s right I think the flip side of that is is um, you don’t want to you don’t apply that to every decision you make like some things are not as consequential and and if you. Take extreme caution on everything you’re never going to move that fast So you’ve got to find the spots where it’s really really critical to to focus then the things that think the things that are are smaller I mean kind of conversely you don’t want to sweat those too much that a lot of times you’ve got to make the call on 80% of the information and just move ahead and not. Dwell on things at Long. So I think yeah focus and take time on the important things and don’t sweat as much the the smaller things.
Alejandro Cremades: I love it. So what Nick for the people that are listening that will love to reach out and say hi. What is the best way for them to do so.
Nick Damiano: Ah, yeah I mean I think email is fine or or Linkedin I’ve I’ve been not great at responding to every Linkedin message I’ve been getting too many lately but you know through those those ways for sure would be good. We’ve also got a form if people are interested. And being involved with Andromeda. We’ve got a form on the website that I or I or somebody else in the company are ah pretty responsive to so any of those ways should be fine.
Alejandro Cremades: Amazing. Well hey nick thank you so much for being on the deal maker show. It has been and on earth to have you with us today.
Nick Damiano: Thanks Alandro that’s a great.
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