Neil Patel

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Nick Boyle has created one of the biggest renewable energy companies in the world. Helping us make the shift from old sources of energy to more sustainable ones. His startup, Lightsource BP, has attracted funding from top-tier investors like Entergy Arkansas Llc and NatWest Group.

In this episode, you will learn:

  • The shift to more sustainable energy
  • The predictability of solar power
  • What’s needed to enable a world that can rely on more renewables


For a winning deck, take a look at the pitch deck template created by Silicon Valley legend, Peter Thiel (see it here) that I recently covered. Thiel was the first angel investor in Facebook with a $500K check that turned into more than $1 billion in cash.

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The Ultimate Guide To Pitch Decks

Moreover, I also provided a commentary on a pitch deck from an Uber competitor that has raised over $400 million (see it here).

Remember to unlock for free the pitch deck template that is being used by founders around the world to raise millions below.

About Nick Boyle:

Nick is the Group CEO of Lightsource bp, overseeing all global operations and development of the company. His dynamic leadership and vision have driven the company to tremendous success.

Founding Lightsource Renewable Energy in 2010, then just a six-person start-up, he has spearheaded the company’s swift growth becoming a global leader in the development and management of solar energy projects.

In December 2018, as part of the company’s strategy to grow the business across continents, Lightsource went into partnership with bp.

As Group CEO, Nick was the driving force behind the partnership, which has seen the company go from strength to strength, with over 500 staff in offices across six continents and an ever-growing pipeline of projects.

Rebranded as Lightsource bp, the larger, stronger company is committed to achieving a joint vision to accelerate the low carbon transition and set the shape of the future of global energy delivery.

Nick’s background is in finance and investment, which has provided him with the expertise and knowledge required to drive Lightsource bp’s success and growth over the last eleven years.

Throughout his career, Nick has always been recognized for his entrepreneurial skill and success in pairing retail financial products with low-risk, predictable investments, and these skills have been crucial in his renewable energy endeavors.

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Connect with Nick Boyle:

Read the Full Transcription of the Interview:

Alejandro Cremades: Alrighty hello everyone and welcome to the dealmakerr show. So today. We have a very exciting founder I mean we’re definitely Goingnna have the battle of accents here. You know the irish you know accent the spanish accent. So why? not you know? But in any case you know you’re gonna find his journey really inspiring. Building scaling financing switching gears you know from 1 segment to another I think that you know again, you’re all going to enjoy this time very very much so without further ado. Let’s welcome our guest today Nick Boyle welcome to the show.

Nick Boyle: Thank you very much indeed. It’s great to be here.

Alejandro Cremades: So originally from northern ah Ireland so how was life growing up there. Give us a little of a walk through memory lane.

Nick Boyle: Yeah, it’s it’s always funny because it’s um I mean I still live in Northern Ireland but it’s always amusing. It. It always sports the question. What was it like growing up in Northern Ireland give nice sort of grew up during the troubles and and the answer. The honest answer is. I didn’t have anything else to compare it with so I didn’t really I can’t tell you what it was like and somewhere else in order that I say it was good bad and different I I loved it. Have to say I you know? ok we there was a bit of bombing going on. But other than that it was a completely normal upbringing I thought everyone had to. Climb over barriers to get to nightclubs and I thought everyone got searched whenever they went into supermarkets and but on a serious note I mean 1 of the big pluses about Northern Ireland is the education system was and continues to be extremely strong. Um, and I suppose that’s you know, a really really important foundation for anyone who’s looking to do entrepreneurial. Ah, you know business or indeed sort of grow in in large corporates. So in that sense I can’t complain.

Alejandro Cremades: So in your case I mean you ended up going and working in the in the finance segment. So what? what puts you in that direction.

Nick Boyle: Yeah mean it’s It’s interesting that was sort of a bit of an accident I’m I’m always a great believer that no matter who you are you always end up where you are sometimes because you had a plan and most of the time because you tripped over something and it seemed entertaining so you know from my perspective I did um. Ah, degree at University and I didn’t really like it. So for me, it was a case of and my dad was in financial services I I went literally started work with him to try and make enough money to go around the world and and and took to it like a duck to water I’m I’m still trying to go around the world I have to say but but you know certainly it was. An accident. It’s not something that I’d necessarily planned to be in but I loved it.

Alejandro Cremades: So what? what is that day going around the world I mean I I guess you know like more than anything. How do you think that that opened your mindset on the way that you look at things.

Nick Boyle: I look I mean I’m still a a great lover I mean I’ve got this I’ve still got a wide eyed. Um you know, ah boyish love for everything that is different I mean I’m I literally landed from Sao Paulo today um ah this morning I’m in in in in Singapore next week I was in. Um, Australia and ah Nepal um, ah, a few weeks ago so you know my job luckily brings me um, around the world and and and while an element of that is obviously the business itself because we’ve got you know transactions going on in those different jurisdictions. And certainly an absolute fascination is learning about how other cultures and exist how they perform how they take their challenges and how they basically turn them to their advantage and and I suppose you could argue that there’s a sort of a metaphor for business in there. But for me, it’s just it’s just a fascination on seeing how other people do what they do I mean. 1 of the things that that that I do and I’ve always done and in work is is to count the number of nationalities that we have which amuses some people they sort of don’t understand why it’s so fascinating. But when you come from a country like Northern Ireland to I mean essentially we had indian people who own the indian restaurant and chinese people who owned the chinese restaurant but other than that. The barriers to entry meant that everyone was northern irishs. So you know for for me having that sort of cross pollination and that education from different nationalities is wonderful and and the question the answer to the question is 53 we have 53 nationalities in lights source bp today.

Alejandro Cremades: That’s incredible. So then so then let’s let’s switch gears here and let’s talk about sui. So how do you? How do you land there and and I mean it was either’s like a bunch of conversations that led to the next and then all of a sudden you know you find yourself like really in the hypergrowth you know Mentality mode.

Nick Boyle: Moves.

Nick Boyle: Yeah, it’s funny I I was I was working as part of a team so I sort of started working with my dad it was then head on hunted to come to to to? Um, you know, ultimately, what became zeroik because it a number of different iterations and and I was a member of a team of 14 on a friday. And then on the Monday I was the manager of a team of 13 because I just swapped hats and and and I really did take to it like a duck to water. So um I think in the sort of first six years I was promoted 6 times so every single year I sort of got up to the the next level. Um, and. You know and ah because ultimately I find that I was good at it. You know like all these things you know it’s not like there was ah any particular science to it I just sort of took to it like a doctor water. Um, and I suppose it you know the the I suppose one one of my my my points of learning there was definitely that. I think unlike most of my peers I wasn’t focusing on getting to the top as I went up I was just focusing on being the best if I was a junior manager being the best junior manager if I was a manager I focused on being the best manager and and and if you like the promotions came because I focused on what whatever was required in order to do as well as good a job as possible. Ah, you know to perform relative to the other individuals in the organization. Now there were 5000 individuals in the organization. So it wasn’t small and by the end I ended up running um a quarter of the their Uk operation for them with about um, ah, 12 or 1300 or something like that.

Alejandro Cremades: So then tell us you know, whatever happened now you know with a switching gears and and how is that process of going from a small company to 900 employees

Nick Boyle: Well I mean that that was the company that I set up after Zurich. So basically I left Zurich with 3 other people because we saw a gap in the market. We bought a small company. The 3 the 4 of us and with 28 people and we then grew that company to 900 just over nine nine hundred and 2 people and we sold that to access and and it it was. It was really interesting I’d come from a small company with my dad joined a company a large company then went backwards to then start again with a small one and grew grew at large but I mean and and and I think like all of these things I think there are different skill sets. That you draw upon for the you know the different for whatever is required depending on where you you sit at that time and but certainly I think that that large companies particularly if you’re funding them yourselves and organizing them yourselves definitely bring on a level of headache that you know you are the lover you hit and. Certainly I remember whenever I I we sort of sold that company to axe insurance I made the statement that I was never going to have a company with 900 people in it again.

Alejandro Cremades: Because what? what? what were you guys really doing there with a company I mean what was what was the business model and what was the name.

Nick Boyle: I Mean basically we’re distributing financial services products so we were it was pensions investments unit Trust those sorts of things and retail investors rather than well maybe small corporates but predominantly Retail investors.

Alejandro Cremades: And how do you guys capitalize the whole operation.

Nick Boyle: We sold the the the distribution organization which included the advisors and the infrastructure etc to Axa which is a large the large and french um insurance company. multinational um insurance company so it was very much. And their ah distribution organization bought our company to if you like complement their existing.

Alejandro Cremades: And and and you were talking about the the headaches of having 900 people I mean why so many people.

Nick Boyle: Well at the end of the day. It was a volume sport I mean you know you can obviously be in in in different businesses and there’s nothing wrong with small or medium sized companies because if you find your niche and you you focus on you know the profitable areas then you can you? you can I hit use use the expression make a lot of money but you can be. Successful. But we went for a more mass market approach and and that’s very much the way I’ve always gone I’ve always wanted to grow things bigger because I see you know I see that driving volume is a good way to to make sure that you Maximize. At return on your efforts.

Alejandro Cremades: So then obviously you guys ended up you know doing the exit to Axa so how was that process like at what point do you guys? you know, really realize hey you know I think that maybe makes sense to to turn page here and and and turn chapter.

Nick Boyle: E.

Nick Boyle: Like I think I think you get to a certain size ah sort of critical mass where to grow it I mean you know businesses grow not in a straight line There’s always these glass ceilings that you go to smash through in order to get to the next level and and I think once you get to you know. Eight hundred a thousand twelve hundred people then you know to continue to grow that takes a massive amount of investment or the other alternative is that you actually place that business within a larger framework organization that obviously allows it to continue to run at its at its pace. And obviously is supported accordingly to do that.

Alejandro Cremades: So Obviously as a result of this transaction. You know I’m sure that you had all types of Non-competes. You know the investesting you know all of that stuff going On. You know after you do a deal like this but you know in this case for you. You know it sounds like. You You had a little bit of money after this transaction you know in your pocket and you were able to explore a bit and also to switch you know as Well. The the segment so that you would not perhaps you know compete you know with the prior Company. So What happened next.

Nick Boyle: I yeah I look at like all these things back to the point about accident and luck and being at the right place at the right time I mean it’s always amusing that you know I I currently run one of the largest solar development businesses in the world and yet I can’t change a plug. So. It certainly wasn’t anything that was planned and and as you say I had a bit of money in my back pocket and I like the idea of renewables I’ve always been interested in the whole you know the whole sort of you know shift away from from fossil fuels and and I find myself in in italy and. Driving through italy in a fit a yellow fit 500 which was interesting and with a guy who was trying to sell me a wind farm and I mean and and this sort of story seems like it you know because I’ve said I’ve sort of told it many times and and and everyone thinks it’s a bit of a joke but it’s absolutely true. Um. But I drove past what turned out to be a solar park but a guy from from Northern Ireland of the Uk obviously solar parks at that point were very few and far between globally and particularly few and far between in a country that didn’t really have much of a sun and and I I drove past um and asked what that was he said it was a solar park. I said interesting and and and then in order to make sure that I didn’t get interested in a solar park. He said the investment. The investment returns aren’t as good with a solar or with a solar park as they are with a wind park and and that for him was a positive but the next statement that he made although he didn’t know it was a negative in that he said.

Nick Boyle: They’re a lot more predictable but the returns aren’t as good and and anyone who has spent 20 years in for retail financial services will tell you that predictable has got much much more buyers. So ah, a definite 5% Return is much much more sellable to a mass market than a maybe 10 percent. Return. And and that eureka moment and didn’t sound feel like much of her eureka moment at the moment at at the time and is what then fueled me to go back literally to go back and and at an office above the stables at home and I sat for you know a number of weeks trying to fine tune high. I Could basically take my background which is in Retail financial Services. You know, collecting small amounts from a large number of people and get that into and investment in renewable energy because renewable energy up until that point had very much been. You know for the large pension and for for the large Infra funds. So I was sort of challenging it and saying well hang on a second here if it’s a predictable long dated return which it clearly was it’s counterparty rich because it was a government backed Feedin tariff we were talking about which again is a big plus then if I could find a way of giving a retail investor access to that then that business model could have legs.

Alejandro Cremades: So then what happened right? after.

Nick Boyle: So I I I literally did that I went and I then I spoke to a couple of friends and about whether or not I could wrap the investment in ah, a tax wrapper which give me further tax advantage or return and advantage and and I um I sort of set the structure up for the business and I asked a friend of mine. Um, because yeah, eis which is a for those of you in the Uk that you’ll know what that is. But for those of you around the world. It’s basically where the the Uk government gives and a kickstart to ukqualifying Uk trading companies startups and up to a certain size. So. It basically says that if if you’re an individual paying tax of any sort and you invest in one of these companies then essentially you don’t have to pay the tax if you leave the money in for 3 years so what essentially I did was I put a tax wrap around each of the individual. Ah, spvs I set up each individual soder park as an spv as a Uk trading company and therefore the investor putting the money in got all of that tax break to the point where we were actually our equity became cheaper than our debt for the first number of years until such times as the Uk government realized this was a bit of a loophole um at a very legal loophole but they then decided that you couldn’t with a feed in tariff coming from the Uk government also get a tax rate from the Uk government as well. But at that point light source was up and running we were at that point certainly the biggest in the u k moving towards being the biggest in Europe.

Nick Boyle: Ah, developer of Large-sca solar. Well large scale at the time. Not large-s scale whenever we look at things now as solar assets. So basically we took money in I mean it’s a very simple model where where ah we we basically build a solar park we produce electricity.

Alejandro Cremades: So how do you guys make money there.

Nick Boyle: And and those days there was a feedin tariff which meant the Uk government guaranteed to pay us x ah per kilowatt r and and as long as we were able to build it at a price that was less than that and then obviously we were making profit now I mean actually in in in in in reality. What happened was. A lot more players came into the market the discount rate that people wear because essentially this was a Uk government backed 25 year Rpi index linked revenue stream predicated on you know your production from a solar park and a solar park. Whether you realize it or not is ah has a really predictable and production curve the sun comes up the sun goes down and on a year year to year basis. There’s typically a 2 or three percent deviation from 1 year to the next. So you’ve a very very predictable generation source coupled with a Uk backed a Uk government back income stream. So the multiplication of those 2 came up with a very predictable annuity that pension funds and other financial institutions got very interested in very quickly.

Alejandro Cremades: So talk talk talk to us about 2 as to how you guys have capitalized the company.

Nick Boyle: Well I mean ah in those days as as we we we use the ah Eis and Vct and but then we did a management buyout and in 2015 and to buy out the distributor of the eis products because they were. A shareholder. They were no longer interested in being a shareholder because the the government no longer allowed them to use those investment products so we actually sold our golden share in a percentage of our assets. So basically we had given the investors a fixed return. And everything over and above that fixed return and by the way, the fixed return was just getting their money back because they had already had their tax break. So everything over and above that was for us so we then sold um the ah significant percentage of those assets and bought out our investor.

Nick Boyle: Let me just put some numbers on this here. The the investor um had not only put money in from their clients but also put money in themselves to the tune of about 1000000 and they received around one hundred and forty eight million four and a half years after they’d put their original one point one in.

Alejandro Cremades: Wow, that’s quite the return nick unbelievable that is quite the return because up until today I mean obviously we’ll we’ll talk about Vp now to you know between debt equity and and and and and all these different instruments. How much money has gone into light source.

Nick Boyle: This.

Nick Boyle: I mean there was probably at that stage three four billion something like that. Yes, because remember but non-recourse project finance I mean if you’ve got a predictable long dated revenue stream.

Alejandro Cremades: Three four billion that you guys have taken in.

Nick Boyle: With a bankable counterparty whether it’s Uk government or whether it’s a large corporate saying I’m definitely going to buy this off you then you can go to the bank and get ah project finance any day of the week and you know certainly our business is very much built on and you know project finance in order to actually build the assets themselves. And we’ve many billion with significantly larger number and of of of billions of of of project finance. No I give them. We’re significantly bigger today clearly.

Alejandro Cremades: So as we’re here in the on the deal making you know side of things talk to us at what point you know Bp comes into the picture.

Nick Boyle: Okay, so it’s 2015. We’ve just bought out our ah investor we’re probably worth I mean the business is probably worth a quarter of a million pounds at that point and but essentially we’re a Uk business we might be the biggest in Europe but only from what we’ve done in the Uk and we had aspirations and a belief that we could take the business global or certainly outside the jurisdictions but you always have that you know with 250 customer our 250 employees 250000000 of value that was 100% owned by us. So you know it’s a risk you don’t want to go rushing into something and but we wanted to just check that we weren’t a one trek pony that that actually what we did was transferable to other markets and. So what we did was we decided to to look at what were the 2 most difficult markets in our opinion that would allow us to say if we were successful in those markets along with the u k that that would give give us a good indication that we would be successful anywhere in the world. So the 2 markets and very difficult markets that we chose on purpose were India and the us because we figured if we could be successful in solar in India the us and the uk 3 very challenging but for different reasons markets and then that’s the point at which we would then choose to build a big business.

Nick Boyle: Bigger and get a partner that it would allow us to do that very quickly we realize sort of by 2017 that it was exactly the same building. A solar park is exactly the same in India is exactly the same in the us. Yes, there are different challenges with Gri and land and and permits but the principle is exactly the same. You just got to fill in a different form. And it was only at that point that we then sat down and said okay if we want to build this business bigger and you know we need to get in a partner and I mean it’s funny. So the decision to get a partner in was step one and and then the second question that we asked ourselves is who who are the best partners for. Renew renewable energy companies and and it’s really interesting because today if you say I did a deal with an oil and gas company and I’m a renewable energy company. Everyone will go well, that’s obvious everyone does that but in 17 that was absolutely not the case so we sat and we thought about who are the best partners. That in the future would would if you like you know if we did a deal with them stand us in the best dead to maximize value and we came up with the answer oil and gas oil and gas companies have been pouring and fueling our world for the last one hundred years and if that world is shifting towards renewables. And who is absolutely of the who which industry is absolutely hell-bent on making sure that they get in front of those new technologies. So you know we on purpose and we basically worked with Rothschild and we told them that we wanted them to go after oil and gas companies as potential partners.

Nick Boyle: We spoke to 7? Well actually we had 14 bidders but 7 of them were oiling gas and for us bp were just the one that fitted best they got what it was that we were trying to do they obviously had the financial reach and the strength and the you know the connectivity with governments etc and and the other thing I think that that isn’t. Isn’t so obvious is you know, becoming light source bp those 2 letters at the end of our name if you know we don’t there’s no such thing as feed in taras from governments today if we produce electricity. We’ve got to sell it to you know Amazon Ebay Mcdonald’s Facebook all of these Apple all of these massive corporates. So if I’m a massive corporate and I’m giving a third party the provision of delivering my electricity am I going to give it to some unknown called light source or am I going to give this role to somebody with bp in their name who’s got 100 years and of history financial strength you know, credibility galore. And so in a way that the you know the partnership with Bp was true symbiosis for them. It got them into an area of the market they they knew was only going to go in one direction for us obviously it got us you know ah financial support. But it also gave us a level of gravitas gravitas that we wouldn’t have. Previously had had we been standing on our own.

Alejandro Cremades: So then so then in this case, you know I guess for for the people that are listening. You know, like obviously given the name of the of the podcast Tool Deal Makers How much in total has light source raised from on the investment side.

Nick Boyle: Well, we financially closed eight and a half Gigawatts and if you crudely use a billion a gigawatt and in the early days it was more than that. But it’s got to be eight nine billion plus plus on top of that we last year completed another we we did a. A revolving credit facility. Um, for one point eight billion with ten uk or sorry ah global banks some of you some us some as or some european and um then we’ve another facility for a further one point one billion so you know it’s got to be pushing towards 10.

Alejandro Cremades: 10,000,000,000 okay now now for the people that are listening to get an understanding on the scope and size of louche light source bp today I mean anything that you feel comfortable sharing like you know number of employees or anything like that.

Nick Boyle: And we’re somewhere between a thousand and eleven hundred employees ah we’re in 19 countries. Ah, we’re targeting to complete five point one Gigawatts this year. So about 5000000000 odd um of investment this year after doing 3 over 3 last year and our target for 2025 is to do twenty five Gigawatts of financial clothes which is a big number and by some people’s measurements and some reports last year they put us as the largest solar developer in the world. It really depends what you measure to be perfectly. Honest, but certainly you know we’ve gone from. I mean whenever I started the business in in 2010 with 6 people. We now have let’s say 1100 but interestingly the the interesting thing I think that that you know to your point about important deals whenever we did the deal with bp um, and that’s just five years ago we were 270 employees. We’re now say 1100.

Alejandro Cremades: Some little.

Nick Boyle: We were in 4 countries were now in nineteen we had one point six Gigawatts of pipeline. We now have fifty five Gigawatts of pipeline so you know yes, it was good. The foundation was important the light source foundation work that we’ve done in order to learn our craft but you know the deal with bp to become light source bp and what we’ve done since. Has just taken us to a completely different level.

Alejandro Cremades: No kidding no kidding now imagine Nick you go to sleep tonight and you wake up in a world where the vision of light source Bp is fully realized what does that world look like.

Nick Boyle: And I have to say it would be a very long sleep because it’s gonna it’s gonna take 1 and um, unfortunately the the the idea of while some people like the idea. It’s not realistic of you know, flicking a switch from. Ah, oil and gas and you know to to renewables. It’s simply not doable. It will take you know a number of decades to get to that position and certainly for us. You know the target and the drive for light source bp is to put as much new. Ah, renewables into the market as as it’s possible. The ultimate goal obviously is to shift the word towards renewables. But that’s not something that can take place overnight. You know the infrastructure isn’t there. You know we’ve basically we live in a world where. You know in the the developed world. You know it’s the the the countries are built on the premise of you know large power station in the middle of a country and ever decreasing sizes of wires going out to the edges and that’s the way the electricity system works but that’s not. The way it works with with renewables. It’s different because it’s all distributed in emerging markets. You know that obviously there’s a blank sheet of paper there. But in that scenario you still have to build the infrastructure you still got to build. You know the grid etc so you know there’s work to be done but I have to say the massive positive directional positive is that.

Nick Boyle: You know we are definitely doing something that pushes against an open door whether it’s governments whether it’s you know whether it’s businesses even the oil and gas companies and are pushing towards this being the the area of focus more than you know the maintenance of the status quo.

Alejandro Cremades: I love it now. Imagine I was to put you into a time machine and I bring you back in time I bring you back in time to that moment where you were thinking about making the switch from corporate. You know, thinking about hey you know the entrepreneurial side. Maybe I should take a look at this. Imagine you had the opportunity of going back in time you’re able to go back in time you know by? let’s say you know I don’t know how much you know that will be like maybe 1415 years and you’re able to sit down your younger self and you give your younger self. 1 piece of advice before launching a business. What would that be and why given what you know now Nick.

Nick Boyle: I mean it’s really interesting because I there’s probably 2 bits and and yeah I mean look for for me I think one of the problems that I that I see today is that is that people. Ah, let’s take Ceo rather than entrepreneur because I but it’s sort of the same thing I want to be Ceo 1 and you know I want to set up my own business etc. I I think people get intoxicated with the idea sometimes too early to the detriment of of you know their capability or their potential. You know for me the reason why the only reason why at 42 years of age I became Ceo is because that was the only point at which I believed that I actually had not necessarily done every job but understood how every job fitted together. And and and certainly from my perspective if I’d gone back further in time I think I would have probably said listen don’t rush it. You know you’ll be ready when you’re ready. Don’t think at 30 years of age because of the fact you’ve done 2 jobs and you’ve got paid a bit of money. You’re suddenly the next big entrepreneur now having said that. There are industries where actually track record and history doesn’t necessarily have the same value because these are areas that are you know and industries that are trailblazing with sort of new ideas and and so it’s slightly different in in in infrastructure and in in sort of look heavy.

Nick Boyle: In ah, infrastructure such as you know the electricity system but certainly for me I think that the best advice I’d give to somebody at that age or me at that age is don’t rush make sure that you’re fully rounded in your knowledge before you go making any sort of you know decisions to jump in to to set up a business. And and I think the other one that that I sort of probably would have thought about but not realize the degree to which its value and exists is this concept of surrounding yourself with people that are better than you and having no fear of surrounding yourself with people that are better than you. There’s so I mean and. Better I mean in the area that they’re good at I mean my job is to Choreograph? Really smart people who are definitely better at me than me in the area that they work in but that’s not my job. My job is to Choreograph those people and I see so many people having almost having a step back or a fear. Taking on somebody because they think shit this guy’s going to be challenging me for my job. That’s the last thing you should be worried about that’s exactly the individual that you want to be surrounding yourself with because those are the people that mean that you can put yourself ahead of the game because it’s a competition at the end of the day.

Alejandro Cremades: Wow, that’s profound. Nick I love it. You know when you were saying that I was thinking about an orchestra and you’re putting all the different people playing like mastering whatever instrument that they’re playing so beautiful. Um, beautiful. Be beautifully said so nick for the people that are listening that will love to reach out and say hi. What is the best way for them to do so.

Nick Boyle: I mean look light source bp is ah you know we have our our website there. We like to advertise what we do given the fact that you know particularly our big corporates need to see what we’re about but look I mean you know I’m based in our London office. We’ve 20 old offices globally. The address is there. The email address is there. Anyone who wants to chat about whatever then I’m happy to to you know as long as it’s it’s specific and relevant not about something I don’t know about but I’ve got some intelligent people. They can talk to if it’s not my air of expertise and but yeah I mean if people are. Hitting a brick wall or they’re hitting a fork in the road and want to know should I go left or right I’m not saying I know the answer but sometimes I might you like all these things a mistake is only mistake if you repeat it. So if I’ve done something before that didn’t work while it wasn’t a mistake. Maybe I can stop you doing the same.

Alejandro Cremades: Amazing. Well hey nick thank you so much for being on the deal maker show today has been an on earth to have you with us.

Nick Boyle: Um, thank you very much indeed.

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Neil Patel

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