Karl Siebrecht On Building A $1 Billion Business By Offering On-Demand Warehousing Space For Online Retailers

Karl Siebrecht not only helped take one company through a $6B acquisition to Microsoft, but has gone on to raise almost a quarter of a billion dollars for his latest tech startup. The venture, Flexe, has attracted funding from top-tier investors like BlackRock, Prologis Ventures, Madrona Ventures, and Activate Capital.

In this episode, you will learn:

• Karl’s top advice when launching a business of your own
• Building marketplace businesses
• The future of logistics and warehousing

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About Karl Siebrecht:

Karl is a seasoned technology executive, with leadership experience in both startups and large, global corporations. Prior to co-founding Flexe, Karl was CEO of AdReady, a Seattle-based advertising technology company.

He is also a founding Board member of EnergySavvy, a SaaS-based solution for energy efficiency management. Previously, Karl was President of Atlas at aQuantive, before its $6B acquisition by Microsoft, and earlier in his career he was a Manager at Bain & Company in Boston and a Diving Officer in the U.S. Navy.

Connect with Karl Siebrecht:

• Crunchbase
• LinkedIn
• Twitter
• Rocketreach
• IMDb

Read the Full Transcription of the Interview:

Alejandro Cremades: Hello everyone and welcome to the deal maker show. So super exciting founder. You know that we have today you know he’s quite a deal maker himself. You know he’s done multiple transactions today. We’re going to be talking about you know building scaling and you know this rocket ship that he’s in you know, right now. As the founder and and and I think that you’re all going to find you know his journey very inspiring. So I think that without farther ado let’s welcome our guest today Carl cyrek welcome to the show. Thanks.

Karl Siebrecht: Um, thanks Allhandra Appreciate being here.

Alejandro Cremades: So so you were raised in Houston Texas so give us a little of um you know, walk through memory lane. How was life growing up. Okay.

Karl Siebrecht: Memory lane in Houston so it was really more growing up in a typical us suburb than growing up in a culturally unique environment that is Houston and it wasn’t until after I left there. Got a little perspective on on other places that I started to realize Houston’s actually a super cool place. You know there was that element of being a texan a little bit of ah, a little bit of pride there and uniqueness about being from Texas but really it was kind of like just growing up in a suburb.

Alejandro Cremades: Now in your case I mean what what got you into into business economics. You know all of that stuff. So.

Karl Siebrecht: Yeah, so it’s family. You know my dad is a marketing guy. He started his career at Coca-cola foods which is why we were in Houston it was the home of minute-made orange juice.

Alejandro Cremades: A nice.

Karl Siebrecht: Ah, Maryland Club Coffee probably some brands that maybe people don’t recognize out there so I grew up kind of asking him what he did for work and he’d talk about brands. He’d talk about consumers. He’d talk about competitors how to be different. That’s what got me into it.

Alejandro Cremades: Now for you. You went to duke you know you studied there. Ah and you know, really interesting here I mean you paid for that you know with you serving as a Navy officer as a diving navy officer. So so what did that inta like being a diving. Navy officer and.

Karl Siebrecht: Yeah, it was a tremendous experience. You know for me. Ah I wasn’t going to be able to go to duke and pay for it myself so finding ah an rotc scholarship was initial just a means to to fund a college experience and I came to. Really understand and appreciate and value the navy and what I was learning from it so it turned out to be ah, a really pretty amazing. 4 year job being a diving officer is kind of all about grit. You know people in tech like to use that word. Um.

Karl Siebrecht: You know, let’s have the grit olympics here I could tell you that walking around in the bottom of the ocean in mud and muck with 0 visibility. That’s pretty gritty so it was a humbling experience. It was super hard physically intellectually um, great. Great experience. Figuring out what it really means to be a part of a team to build a team to lead through adversity. Just ah, you know so so appreciate what? so many of our fellow men and women do to serve for our country and other countries but it was a great experience. I I um. I wouldn’t be the the person I am today if I hadn’t gone through that.

Alejandro Cremades: So let’s talk about adversity. What did you learn about adversity and how to deal with it.

Karl Siebrecht: Well I mean the first thing is you know it’s it’s kind of cliche it feels this way but it’s it’s your team. It’s your teammates. You know when stuff gets hard ah you rely on the people around you and you pull together as a team. You try to cut through um everything that is not critical to the mission. You know jettison everything extra figure out the 1 thing to go focus on pull together. Um. With whatever your team looks like and go after that 1 thing to deliver that 1 thing could be you know pulling a helicopter up off the bottom of the ocean or that 1 thing could be you know solving a customer’s immediate crisis. Um, and if you can get through that. Um you can come out the other end stronger with a customer who who really values how you focused on them. How you got them through something hard so you know again, it’s kind of I use that comparison you know which was top of mind just to sort of draw some of the similarities between. You know, serving the military on ah on a tight team and serving you know with my current teammates at flex on on a tight team as well.

Alejandro Cremades: And we’ll talk about flexing just a little bit now after you did the 4 years in the Navy you decided it was time to go back to study and especially business school. so so so why why business school. Okay.

Karl Siebrecht: Yeah I mean you know the the founding elements were were what I’d said earlier you know, being curious about business from my dad mainly um, but the other thing I recognized is I mean I’d learned a lot in the military things that are you know, maybe that’s one of the best places to learn them. But. You know when you get into sort of how does a business work and what does a p and l look like and you know how does finance actually well I had knew none of that stuff. You know I went to business school and I was like you know in a class with a bunch of ah folks who had been at investment banks for 4 years or consulting firms of 4 years I had never even opened a spreadsheet before like you know. I had this amazing runway of stuff to go learn and I just devoured it it was it was like kid in a candy shop. You know stuff I had that was an economics major and in in college. So I’d had a taste but this was kind of going all in on. Learning about businesses and markets and and how to think about customers and how to think about differentiation. It was awesome.

Alejandro Cremades: Now for you, you decided to go into private equity and you know it’s interesting like many of the people that I that I speak with that are super Successful. You know they either have come from private equity from consulting from investment banking those are like the 3 areas where I see people with amazing. Ah, backgrounds that they’ve developed perhaps on on Pattern recognition or whatever that is but in your case being able to um experience being on the other side of the table more as an investor I mean what do you think that that gave you and what what opened up from that experience.

Karl Siebrecht: Yeah, well well actually you know I was at Bane and company on the consulting side and our customers were private equity funds. Ah so I was doing the consulting work but our customers you know that that that.

Alejandro Cremades: Got it.

Karl Siebrecht: Business on the consulting side started because they started doing work for Bain Capital who was a private equity company and after working on different projects for Bain Capital helping them do diligence on on prospective investments. You know the the entrepreneurs on the consulting site said hey we can go sell this service to other private equity firms. It seems like There’s a need out there and they just built this what what came to be the largest practice area of the entire global consulting firm was the private equity practice so being in on kind of the ground floor that it was just crazy hard work I mean we were running one hundred miles an hour for years. Um, but it was. Learning at hyper speed because what it basically boiled down to was these firms would would hire us to go deep on the 1 or 2 hypotheses that the deal. The investment hinged upon so if the hypothesis was hey we think we can be a lower cost competitor. We would go super deep on proving that out. Can this target prospect be the lowest cost provider or if the deal hinged on hey we think we can be a premium priced product or offering. We would go super deep on proving that out. What are the. What are the factors that would have you believe that this can be a premium price solution and again it it. It. It taught me a lot about how to do a lot of analysis and a lot of work but it really taught me again the value of focusing in on the 1 or 2 things that matter most.

Alejandro Cremades: And obviously for you you know, essentially you um Seattle comes knocking so you move to Seattle and right I mean obviously before before Flex which is what you’re up to now. Um you you were part of 2

Karl Siebrecht: Um, yeah.

Alejandro Cremades: Initiatives I mean 2 companies that ended up going through acquisitions. So I guess let’s let’s like double click on that. So acquintive right? So it was the company that that you started working there in Seattle it ended up being.

Karl Siebrecht: Um, yep.

Alejandro Cremades: Selling to Microsoft for 6,000,000,000 so wonderful transaction and I’m sure that was an incredible experience in your case, what disibility did it give you to the full cycle of the life of a company.

Karl Siebrecht: Yeah, it gave me tremendous visibility I joined I came out to Seattle on ninety nine to join this company. They had just closed their series b round this was in 9099 and within a few quarters we went public so this was the the internet bubble. Ah, version 1 and things were moving incredibly fast. We were growing at just ridiculous rates. Um got public thirteen days before the Nasdaq crashed thirteen days before the Nasdaq crashed right? So what that means is. You know had we had a few more corrections on the s one. We would never have gotten out and we would would have died as a company had we raised capital you know several quarters earlier we probably would have burned through it all because that’s what you did you spent as aggressively as you could to grow as fast as you could and so. You know from that initial bang of an ipo and trading at crazy lofty valuations within a year we were trading below cash as you know half our customers went out of business. You know the the tech ah multiples cratered you know. A lot like they have recently actually in ah in a far more exaggerated way than they have recently and and then we had the opportunity to go actually built from this core which was a strong core business to build a company that was durable and you know it was just.

Karl Siebrecht: It’s kind of the best opportunity you could ask for to see that full lifecycle to go through the very very high highs very low lows I mean when we were trading below Cash We had investors saying. Let’s just fold up tent fold up the tent give the cash Back. It’s going to be the best performing thing in our portfolio. But of course we didn’t want to do that. We we believed in the vision which was you know eyeballs are going onto digital media ad dollars have to follow and the market the world needs a scalable technology platform to build all these transactions on top of it’s just it’s. Like that core belief was so strong and we had a position to build that company and and we did so it was tremendous.

Alejandro Cremades: And then also with with at-ready you know after you finished up the integration with Microsoft where you were for a few years then you moved on you know the next day chapter was at ready where you were leading the operation there and. And again, another exit. No. Um, so you guys slow that to ah to another ad network. So I guess from that experience which was you know about you know the same time you know it’s about you know 6 to 7 years What was your main takeaway. You know on the as ah as ah as an operator.

Karl Siebrecht: That’s right.

Karl Siebrecht: Yeah, you know here’s my main takeaway that you got to have a great strategy got to have great Product. You got to have great Team. You also got to have some luck I mean. I’ve learned humility several times in my life and you know when I reflect on the aqua of experience which was a tremendous outcome. Um, you know we had a great team A great strategy A great product. All those things and we had luck along the way I gave the example of going public just at the right time you know if. The better we can do to recognize that. That’s an ingredient I think the the more effectively we can kind of stay humble. Ah, you know in contrast with the ad-ready experience. Um, you know we did not have a great outcome. We sold the business. Um, but it wasn’t a great financial outcome and ah. In some ways you know? Ah we we were quote unquote Unlucky In other ways we certainly could have executed better but it’s a humbling experience right? And so yeah, you take these things with you and and 2 13 we decided to start this company and that’s been. You know that’s been in in the mindset as well that we got to. We got to do all the things we can control and be prepared for the things we can’t control. You know whether it’s good luck bad luck. Whatever you know some people don’t like the word luck you know things beyond your control. You know.

Karl Siebrecht: Know that they are going to happen and you’ve got to factor that in to how you execute.

Alejandro Cremades: And also as they say I mean I Yes they take time to incubate. You know they’re there. They’re doormant. We don’t even know you know that they are there now in your case you know I’m wondering like why were this? What were the sequence of events that needed to happen for you to be like.

Karl Siebrecht: Um, yeah.

Alejandro Cremades: Wow You know I gotta bring this company to life.

Karl Siebrecht: Yeah I mean you know back to the luck thing. Let’s call it serendipity I mean the serendipity behind the idea for flex was was tremendous. So as I already said I’d spent I don’t know. Twelve plus years in advertising technology right? helping to create a category. There was no thing called there was nothing didn’t exist the word Adtech didn’t exist when this company was formed. There were other companies that started to get created around the same time to go after the same opportunity. But Adtech wasn’t a thing so we were part of this journey of creating a whole new industry category advertising technology and in doing that the business we built was fundamentally a tech platform that connected buyers of digital media with sellers of digital media. And they could all transact buyers and sellers could transact on this common technology platform. That’s the core of the business we built at a quanative and then sort of we were part of the the next generation of that with ad ready only because I’d had that experience for so many years in ad tech. Did the idea for flex resonate so strongly with me the idea came from an entrepreneur a guy I met at a party. Um, who was building had have built a very nice business here in Seattle who had a need and his need was around warehousing and he sought us out and said hey I’ve got an idea for you know.

Karl Siebrecht: Businesses are very dynamic but warehouses are very static multi-year Leases. So I have to sign a fixed financial obligation for multiple years based on a forecast that I can’t you know it’s ridiculous I can’t forecast. My business with any degree of certainty I’m growing very very rapidly I’m participating in this e-commerce thing and that was the core kernel like if you could create a technology platform that could allow for the sharing of warehousing services and warehousing capacity. And monetize that through a flexible model sort of pay as you go instead of pay for multi-year leases and big fixed chunks of capital that would be really tremendously valuable and again only because I had had this prior experience in ad tech did that idea really really resonate with me. You know to that you look back on your economics background. You think about you know the area under the supply curve and all that technical wonky stuff and this just seemed like one of the best ideas I had ever heard.

Alejandro Cremades: Nice. So then let’s talk about the execution of this idea I mean what ended up becoming the business model flex right.

Karl Siebrecht: Yeah, the business model was ah build a 2 sided marketplace type of business ah to offer customers a consumption based model for warehousing services. Do that by building a software platform that is used for managing warehousing services. The core technology is warehouse management software or Wms in industry parlance right? So build that technology in a way that any customer could plug into it on the one side. And all the different operating service providers those who lease buildings and provide warehousing labor could offer their services on this same platform. So you could aggregate supply provided in a shared model. To customers who could take it down in fractional bits. Those fractional bits could be a portion of a building or they could be ah fractional units of time.

Alejandro Cremades: And how difficult was to build the supply and the demand side of things because obviously when you are putting together. You know something like this I mean it’s same is definitely challenging because you know people talk about Marketplaces like the chicken and the egg.

Karl Siebrecht: Yeah, yeah.

Alejandro Cremades: Mean I’ve I’ve built marketplace in the past like the 1 ne-sided The 2 wo-sided and and obviously and I my end I mean when I think about the the chicken and the egg I Just want to shoot the chicken and step on the egg I mean it’s just like super frustrating. But. But I guess in your case, How did you go about tackling this and really you know addressing the supply Demand issue.

Karl Siebrecht: Yeah, it’s such a great question as I love that expression and may have to borrow it so you know look when you’re starting from scratch and it it was myself and my two co-founders they were engineers. They had done early stage startups as well. So they knew how to build. Kind of scrappy v 1 product. You know it was just the 3 of us though. So how you you know we had I mentioned there was a guy who brought the idea. Well we went back to him and said hey ah if we built this would you buy it so he was prospect customer number one. So I guess if you call the customer the chicken. And the suppliers the egg so we had a chicken. So now you needed eggs you know or maybe it’s the reverse doesn’t matter. So then what do you have to do go find a warehouse operator who had capacity wanted to make extra money like it’s kind of simple when you boil it down and so what do you? do you get on the phone you start cold calling. You know you drive down to the warehousing kind of district south of Seattle and you go doorknocking you find somebody and the value props pretty good like hey you have space you want to make some extra money like let’s try this thing and so you start small. We found a warehouse operator and you know this is actually worth a quick story. Ah, this company is a supplier of Halloween costumes and other holiday novelties to huge retailers including Walmart but Halloween’s the big category. So guess what their warehouse looks like on October thirtieth

Karl Siebrecht: It’s like there were guys skateboarding around this huge warehouse that was filled to the brim two weeks earlier and it was just massively seasonal business. So we walked in there and we’re like hey you want to make some extra money they say yeah you know I’ll give that a shot. So then you have a warehouse operator. You have a customer. And that’s working and then you go back to the warehouse operator and say how about if I bring you more customers. He says yeah, bring it on. So now you start cold call on to find more customers so we really bootstrap this thing in a very very kind of analog basic way to get the business off the ground and then you know sort of. Many many years later we’re doing that at a much much more sophisticated level trying to balance. You know the supply side with the demand side and set expectations appropriately but that’s that’s how you start you start by being scrappy.

Alejandro Cremades: And oh kidding I mean you were you were alluding to the bootstrapping you know component I’m wondering you know obviously now you know you guys have raised quite a bit of money. So um, 2 questions here. So how much capital have you guys raised to date. And then also what has been the experience. You know of going from one cycle to the next right.

Karl Siebrecht: Yeah, we’ve raised about two hundred and forty million dollars total through a seed round through series d which we completed last summer. Um, do you know this. Experience has been pretty thrilling I guess is one way to put it. You know we we bootstrapped for like literally funded self-funded. That’s the more accurate term for the first year then we raise a little bit of seed capital and we did not raise our series a for 3 years after the founding of our company. Because we were. We were iterating on the business model. The pricing model even the segments we wanted to go after are we going to try and build this for the snb midsize market or for big enterprise customers and we ultimately chose the latter. Um, but we raised our series a and in September of ah, we’re sorry the summer of 2016 you know the b round came almost three years later and then we’ve accelerated the timing between the c rounds and the d rounds since then as the as the business is really really. Ah, accelerated so you know each time is a pretty thrilling experience. You know we’re a um, we’re kind of a unique business. We’re a lot like other businesses but we’re not exactly like any other business. We are a marketplace model but we’re kind of a unique type of marketplace because we’re b two b.

Karl Siebrecht: And we’re actually enterprise customer focused. So. It’s not really about you know going out and finding hundreds of small or thousands of small customers and building up a demand side that way. So we’re kind of a special type of marketplace very curated and less. You know, specifically automated. Um. We are a payas-ougo ah value prop. So we’re kind of like a consumption-based tech ah model from a pricing perspective. You know like a snowflake or an aws so we’ve kind of we we have some traits in common with saas but we’re actually more like consumption based so. You know we’re a little bit like a lot of other things and we are sitting in the center of one of the largest markets that has yet been transformed by digital technology. It’s the logistics market logistics is over 8 Percent of gdp about that. It’s over 8% of gdp. It’s larger than financial services like financial services all up including consumer investment banking lending you know logistics is larger than that and if you think about. You know the digitization of the of the enterprise you know you go through ah hr systems you go through fintech you go through sales and marketing and the digital you know digital platforms that now run a lot of logistics is one of the last departments of the enterprise to go through a digital transformation and.

Karl Siebrecht: You know we’re in on the ground floor that so the market is massive. So again when you go through a fundraising process. You know there’s a long-winded answer but it boils down to this some investors look at this business and are In. Incredibly bullish and enthusiastic others look at it with Pattern recognition from other things they may be great at like Marketplaces and they’re like well you don’t really look like a marketplace to me so you know I’m not that I’m not that interested. So. It’s a matter of finding the right match the right fit. With investors and we feel very fortunate that we’ve been able to do that and have a tremendous tremendous portfolio of investors who are helping us build this company.

Alejandro Cremades: And just to expand on that Carl because I thought that that that was very interesting. How do you filter so that you can get to the perfect match that you were alluding.

Karl Siebrecht: Yeah, here’s the trick just be really honest and transparent like this is what we do, but this is who we are you know and and let people self select in. Either What they hear is music to their ears or it’s not you know, let them self select and to do that. Well you got to be your true self and this is like I believe in this from finding your next job your next employer. You know if you’re thinking about going to grad school. You know, like whatever it is. You know there’s got to be a great twoway fit for this to work and the best actionable thing you could do is just show your real stripes and ah, you’ll get lots of people who pass. Um, everybody gets lots of people for the most part who pass but But. You’ll find that you end up with the right partner far more often than not.

Alejandro Cremades: And and also for the people that are listening to get an idea on the scope and size of flex I mean anything that you can share in terms of number of employees or anything else that you feel comfortable sharing.

Karl Siebrecht: Sure yeah, we’re um, about 470 employees now we don’t really share our financials but we’re pretty sizable these days and I think one of the most exciting things about our business is.

Karl Siebrecht: As we’ve gotten larger. We’re actually growing faster. We haven’t done any m and a so this is all like straight you know organic year over year growth but our year over year growth This year was faster than last year ah faster than the year before I mean we have to go back to when we were actually subscale. You know it’s easy to relatively easy to grow really fast when you’re you’ve got a tiny base but we’ve got a really big base now and we’re growing. You know, well over 100% year-year.

Alejandro Cremades: Wow! So as we’re thinking about growth as we’re thinking about future imagine if you were to go to sleep tonight Carlin you wake up in a world where the vision of flex is fully realized what does that world look like.

Karl Siebrecht: You know our vision for the industry is that goods will move relatively seamlessly around the world from their point of origin to their ultimate point of destination and you know this is way out there. You know, call it and and you know a couple of decades from now. Um, and this isn’t necessarily the vision for Flex This is our belief on how things are inevitably going to get built and be Operated. So just as you know. If if you sent an email with an attachment sometime in the last you know week you didn’t sit there and think ah what Router am I going to route this file through and is this going to go over a fiber optic cable or over a you know, wireless connection and which wireless connection which protocol I Wonder what? browser. The the recipient’s Using. You know what email you know tool like you have no idea you hit send your expectation is that message will be received without getting fragged you know and it’ll get received quickly and it’ll be a low price. You know per unit that you’ll send that you and and then and then the the network just takes care of all that. In fact, you have no idea what’s underpinning that I don’t know that the movement of goods will ever become that.

Karl Siebrecht: Automated and that friction free because you know the protons and neutrons are a lot harder to manage than the electrons but it will start to approach that and I say this a lot we you know we talk about this when we onboard new employees and I think some people are like what you know what is that guy smoking like really that seems sort of and I say well listen. Look how does it work at Amazon right now. How does it work at Amazon right? And you think if you’re an Amazon Merchant you call up Amazon and say hey ah could you guys send my little pink fuzzy slippers out from your Dallas warehouse and could you put it on a ups truck because I really like ups better than. You know fedex it’s like no, you have no idea where your pink fuzzy slippers are how many warehouses are they in you don’t know and do you care? You don’t care. What do you care about you care that they arrive in two days or one day. You care what the cost per unit delivered is and you care that that there’s a quality experience. That’s what you care about you care about the outputs and you don’t even know what the inputs are and that’s happening right now for almost 50% of the ecommerce sales. In the us across millions of merchants. So Amazon has already built this in a closed ecosystem and I think that the open ecosystem the other 50% of the ecommerce dollars and then by the way the other eighty five percent of retail retail dollars that aren’t ecommerce and aren’t Amazon.

Karl Siebrecht: That’s going to become more automated more technology drivenn more networked. Ah and it’ll start to look more like people buying the outcomes and technology platforms driven by analytics and data delivering the results. That’s the future.

Alejandro Cremades: I think brought on.

Karl Siebrecht: That that that we expect and and flex is going to be a big part of that.

Alejandro Cremades: I love it so that that that sounds like an incredible future by the way now now if we’re thinking about you know, looking looking at the past you know we we’ve been talking about the future. So let’s look at the past. Let’s say I put you into a time machine Carl and I bring you back in time to that moment where.

Karl Siebrecht: Um, yeah.

Alejandro Cremades: You know you were coming out of business school. You know you were thinking about getting into you know business and and and perhaps even running companies and things like that if you had the opportunity of having a sit down with your younger self and giving that younger self a piece of advice before launching a business. What will that be and why given what you know now.

Karl Siebrecht: That’s such a good question. Ah you know I I didn’t launch my business career with an explicit goal of becoming a Ceo or starting a company neither one of those I launched my career.

Karl Siebrecht: Knowing I wanted to do interesting things in business and finding opportunities where I could really dig in and go deep and and there was sort of the thrill of the challenge. You know, go find the hardest thing that was kind of like one of the. 1 of the impulses behind deciding to be a Navy diver and not a Navy something else which there’s lots of great things to do in the navy it was kind of 1 of the hardest things so go find the hardest thing and and see if you can hack it? Um, so ah, what advice would I give my younger self. Um, boy you know I’d say I’m super happy with the decisions I made you know this decision to leave Bain and company. You know where where I was learning a ton I was having a great experience. You know I had there’s lots more things I could go do there. You know, kind of leaving at ah at a peak. Moment and taking the risk to join this startup in Seattle you know doing internet advertising which was sort of just absurd at some level but it felt like it felt like a risk worth taking and um.

Karl Siebrecht: You know I Guess what? I’d say is like yeah take those risks you know be calculated of course be as smart as you can, but like take those risks. Um, ah you know surround yourself as best you can with really smart people who you like to be around because you know what. You’re goingnna be around them a lot. Ah when things are cranking and and growth is through the roof you’re goingnna be around them a lot if things get tough. Ah and you know there’s layoffs or there’s whatever as that’ experienced in my past like you’re going to be around him a lot so you know. Feel very fortunate I’ve made some good decisions I’ve had as I said before some serendipity along the way and I would encourage my my earlier self to to not be afraid of taking those risks again.

Alejandro Cremades: That’s very very profound a Carl so I guess for the people that are listening that would love to um to reach out and say hi. What is the best way for them to do so.

Karl Siebrecht: Yeah, just um, hit me up on Linkedin or hit me up just send me an email Karl Siebrecht: Siebrecht: at flex with an e.com I love talking to other entrepreneurs and and.

Karl Siebrecht: Talking about business models and I’d welcome I’d welcome questions or other perspectives from listeners out there.

Alejandro Cremades: Amazing! Well hey Carl thank you? So so much for being on the deal maker show today. It has been an honor to have you with us.

Karl Siebrecht: Um, likewise I Really appreciate you asking me to do this. It was super fun.

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