Joe Bayen On Raising $120 Million To Enable Consumers To Use Their Subscription Payments To Build Credit Scores

In the pulsating world of entrepreneurship and innovation, every success story is woven with threads of resilience, creativity, and a relentless pursuit of one’s dreams. Joe Bayen, the visionary behind Grow Credit, sits down to share his remarkable journey from the bustling streets of Cameroon to the epicenter of technological advancement in Silicon Valley.

Grow Credit has attracted funding from top-tier investors like USAA, Blue Ridge Bank, PG Ventures, and Peter Kight.

In this episode, you will learn:

• Embrace challenges as opportunities for growth and innovation, turning setbacks into stepping stones toward success.
• Trust your instincts, as intuition often holds the key to navigating uncertain terrain in entrepreneurship.
• View stress as an ally, harnessing its energy to fuel creativity and resilience in the face of adversity.
• Build a strong network of mentors and advisors early on, as their guidance can accelerate the journey to success.
• Democratize access to financial resources and foster inclusivity, paving the way for a more equitable future in fintech.
• Pivot with purpose, recognizing when to adapt and evolve in response to market dynamics and consumer needs.
• Never underestimate the transformative power of perseverance and relentless determination in achieving one’s dreams.

 

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About Joe Bayen:

Joe Bayen is the Founder and CEO of Grow Credit Inc. Over the past decade, he has specialized in underwriting, credit score improvement, user acquisition, and monetization.

In 2015, Joe founded Lenny Credit, a small-dollar loan and credit score improvement platform that received industry accolades from JP Morgan Chase, PayPal, and Discover.

Prior to launching Lenny Credit, Inc., Joe held an EIR position at VC fund Science-inc, assisting with mobile growth strategies as well as the development of Reframe, a Vine and Instagram influencer platform acquired by Famebit.

Joe was the CEO and founder of ICS Mobile Inc., the developer behind Free App A Day, a mobile application marketing platform with 12M users worldwide that was bootstrapped to $18.3M in total revenue. Notable clients included Disney, Electronic Arts, Groupon, and Kabam.

Prior to founding ICS, Joe held the position of COO at mobile game developer In-Fusio, the developer behind Microsoft’s Age of Empire II.

In 2004, Joe held the position of Managing Director at Allegorithmic, the developer behind Substance, the industry standard for texturing and material authoring, acquired by Adobe.

Joe received a track and field scholarship from the University of Miami, where he graduated from the Dean’s list with a B.A. in International Finance & Marketing.

Connect with Joe Bayen:

• LinkedIn
• Crunchbase
• F6S
• TheOrg

Read the Full Transcription of the Interview:

Alejandro Cremades: Alrighty hello everyone and welcome to the dealmakerr show. So very excited about the guests that we have today you know I guess that they you know has been through the ringer but you know now they’re definitely doing incredible stuff I mean obviously there’s no such thing as a straight line you know the ups and downs and I think that today’s story is really. Remarkable, very inspiring and we’re going to be touching on rejections you know from the likes of ah Steve jobs also mark youban crazy pivots and also what they’re doing right now you know in the fintic world. But but again you know super super cool. Journey and story that we have in front of us with the building the scaling the financing and all of the above so without further ado. Let’s welcome our guest today Joe Bayen: Biden welcome to the show. So originally born in.

Joe Bayen: Hey hey how are you thanks for having me.

Alejandro Cremades: Cameroon in Africa but you moved to to Paris quite early on so give us a walkthrough memory lane. How was life growing up.

Joe Bayen: Yeah, ah well you know, borning Cameruna um, you know I my aunt you know I was living with my mom there but my aunt decided to ah that it would be better for me to have ah a european indication. So um, you know I moved to Paris to live with her so I was ah.

Joe Bayen: You know I was actually ah a pretty ah solo life. You know I you know I had to fend out for myself from a very young age and um, you know so growing up in France was was ah was a lot of fun was exciting and um, you know and a small story that. That’s going to end light a little bit that journey is the fact that you know I studied I was taught chess at age 7 in a camp and and I won a tournament you know and just just like that. So I became very ah excited about strategy games. You know I ended up playing a lot of ah. You know, not only ches but populous or seam cds or or whatnot and um, that really really got me into um, just ah, not only enjoying strategy strategy at all but understanding the power of focus because some of those games you know issue. For instance, put all the vitegers to do one single task. You know you would get win the game faster and I realized that in business it the exact same thing and if you focus on a single item at a time and if you focus to focus on multigolling instead of Multica multitasking. Actually you’re able to ah to progress faster. So yeah. So games actually helped me a lot in my business career. So I played a lot of games then I was able to I always wanted to come study here in the United States so um as a senior in high school I decided to run track and I was ah fortunate enough to be ah to be pretty fast and I ended up finishing fifth at the french gina nationals.

Joe Bayen: And to make a story short. That’s what booked me booked my ticket here to the United States you know I ended up with a.

Alejandro Cremades: But why why the us why the us like a out of all places like what what got you hooked into the idea of coming to the Us.

Joe Bayen: Ah, opportunities right? And and also um, you know to be ah to be frank. It’s actually better to be um, black you know in the United States that black in France you know in terms of opportunities. You know there’s a ceiling. Over there. You know you know it’s um, it’s a lot tougher to ah to have opportunities you know for instance, even my cousinzi was working at Microsoft in France he couldn’t go higher in the ranks out there and they recruited him in the United States from France you know to give him more opportunities. So. You know? Yeah, the main reason I came to United States is to ah to give myself my my creative mind you know an opportunity to really um expand as much as possible and that the us was the place for that.

Alejandro Cremades: So obviously you had the you were running. You know you were quite the fuss runner. You know as you were saying you you you ranked fifth in the nationals there I guess the the whole competitiveness and and that competitive spirit. How do you think that has shapen up who you are.

Joe Bayen: Ah, this has been ah, a critical aspect of ah, not only my personality but my relentlessness I just simply don’t give up you know Um, no is not an answer and um, you know I’m ah incredibly tenace tenacious and um. Also I’ve learned over the years you know to really embrace the downs. You know as ah learning opportunities and 1 thing that I’ve learned from ah from Kobe Bryant at 1 point he shared that you know you know losing is great. You know because ah, it’s an opportunity to to get better. So I didn’t understand what he meant. And a few years ago and when I really realized that if you really embrace those challenges as an opportunity to become the best version of yourself and that will lead to ah to better outcomes. So um, you know they um you know, essentially um, powering through not only powering through but um whenever ah life is challenging um um I have the tendency to become not only extremely resourceful but you know over the storie that I’m going to share later on today. You know when things are tough. You know what I do outside of work. In um, in terms of Phil concert exercise is much harder. You know, um, average nine ten miles a day you know I work out lift. You know four times. Ah a week. You know the effort the physical effort the strangeest effort that I put myself into.

Joe Bayen: On a weekly basis are much harder than work for instance. Ah, even the morning example, you know when we ended up closing our deal with mastercard I ended up doing a twenty seven mile hike and I did it to bring myself back down to earth. You know just to make through I remind myself that life is not easy. So pushing myself. Physically to the extreme. You know, enables me to really embrace challenges pretty seamlessly what I do is work at you know my personal life and much more harder than work in general so whenever life throw. Ah you know a lot of um, you know a lot of challenges at me after tendency to ah to sweat it and down. Pretty easily it outdays.

Alejandro Cremades: So then so then let’s talk about now coming to the us because you came to the university of Miami and there you were blending finance and marketing and obviously you were you were still running I mean you even run for Kamaro but right before the Olympics. You know in 2004 you get injured now during that time you know there was that train ride. You know that that you were in and I’m sure that everything was going through your mind but that train train right? Also not only the injury was life changing but also that train ride. Why was that the case.

Joe Bayen: Well, you know it’s um, yeah, you know as always when when when ah 1 door closes another one over apartment. It. It was very disappointing I worked so many years you know to ah to to go to make it to the lampics and I was pretty much devasated and I had no idea. What would be the next stage of my life. No idea you know I had a finance degree international and finance degree but I had no idea what job I would do where I would I was completely. Ah, you know, um, clueless about my future and and afraid to a certain extent and and something neuroraculous happened. You know I ah. Ah, had to change cardt trend card at least 4 times for variety for variety of reasons I was sitting someone else’s seat and then I would ended up with a cart with a bunch of kids on vacation making a lot of noise and I settled on a cart with just 1 person with long hair. You know I was working on this computer. And I was just very curious and I sat down fellow asleep for about an hour woke up and he was still in the same position working his computer and I ask him so very curious curiosity. Very important say hey what are you working on and you shared with me that you know theyve built they have a small startup in ah in a city called clamon feral. Which was my club team as well and which is also better way for an anecdotal as an anecdote It’s the the hometown of a mission entire. But so people to begin to know. But anyways so he told me that they built an amazing technology that was decades ahead of her time and that enables essentially? Ah um.

Joe Bayen: Artist to paint mathematics. You know if you want to move more details about it I behavior to share but I was completely fascinated and I asked him you know I’m a marketing and finance major because I was you know can do you have you know? Ah maybe I can help you out and he ended up telling me that his boss was picking up at the at the train station. And then I should just talk to him and see you know here’ here we are at the train station I meet Sebastian the ge the Ceo and founder of Ana Greatmmi and I told him hey you know can I come to your office and learn about new technology and not possibly help you see sure so I went there and spen the next full eight weeks learning everything about. Procedural textures about special effects for ah after after effects and photoshop and whatnot and that they liked. You know the fact that I was a quick learner and they gave me the job. So um I moved I flew back to Miami you know, put all my my luggages in my car. All my life. My car and drove from Miami. Ah, cross- country to Los Angeles to begin as a business developer for allegorriic which became my first job ever and um, allegor allegorriic is another fantastic story. You know, ah Sebastian ended up selling allegorrimic to Adobe in two thousand and nineteen one of the largest acquisition in France. And he also won the Oscar for technological achievement last year and he invited me as well and he’s also an investor in grow amazing story and ah all the technology from a greatnick is embedded in all the the current special movies from ah ah from ah ah you know.

Joe Bayen: Avengers I mean you name it is 9 and 99.9 percent of all games uses Allegoric algorithmormic texture in the world today. So amazing story and he inspired me a lot to also remain relentless because he yeah he had to go through ah a really tough time of the for the. Over 4 to 15 years before setting this company to Adobe.

Alejandro Cremades: Now obviously there you were exposed to you know and a remarkable journey. You know obviously crystallizing with the acquisition from Adobe. But in your case you know around that time of the acquisition happening. It was the time where you decided that it was. Time to shine and your time to take over you know, ah creating your own future with ics mobile now with ics mobile it was say quite a while right? So um, walk us through how was the process of you thinking through this and then being like okay let’s. Time to to do this thing. Let’s do it.

Joe Bayen: Ah, right? So in terms of timing you know, allegorrate me I left allegrate me in 2007 you know and ah and so let’s go back to 2002 2 2007 nodo even though ah Sebastian and I remain in contact I still good France as I mentioned is an investor in grow. So in 2007 you know I decided to ah to essentially um, you know I decided that it was time for me to become a founder so I launched ics mobile which initially was focusing on launching a a mobile ad network a video mobile ad network and. At that time we developed the first one of the first technologies which enables us to push video ads on mobile devices. It’s completely brand new you know at the time and one of the other company I forgot the name ah forgot the name of that company. But. Actually the founder is an investor and it ended up becoming an investor in grow as well. But it was a very nescent industry and um so we spent an entire year trying to raise money you know for that company and it was in 2007 2008 things were pretty hard to raise money time. It was video challenging time to raise money. And um, and I was forced to essentially pivot you know because the iphone you know, launched and became popular and this one I told ah one of my partner that hey let’s pivot you know have ah you know I ah um, you know have a gaming background because I was ah you know? ah.

Joe Bayen: I was Ceo at at a company called infisio games. You know right before launching ah ics more more that was really the pivot. So from you know we went from um from allegriic to um infusio games and then I left infusio games to launch ics more so that’s the. You know that’s a little bit of the the story here and then because of that experience you know I had a a gaming background and I decided to launch to essentially launch a video games for Iphone and that was in 2008 and um, you know from that point on. Ah, something. Ah pretty ah, you know not only video video games and apps and um in two thousand and Eight eight you know ah we were on the verge of launching 1 app called I bubblebble you know which was a bubble eds. Ah right? You know that were that was representing. No um, Palin ah Obama Mike Cain and whatnot and we’re playing on setting those bubble heads for a dollar or pop and we were rejected by Apple you know they? ah they said that you know they didn’t allow caricature back then and of course I was really upset. And I ended up by. You know my business partner told me that Steve Jobs usually rep replied to his email and I email directly Steve Jobs and explaining why we should be allowed and he replied to me with a a one lineer saying ah you should spend your time writing better apps boof. That’s it.

Joe Bayen: So we got rejected and we’re a little bit devastated from that. But that rejection led us to ah focus on ah you know first of all developing pure purely developing game and essentially led us to also pivot. Towards launching freeappaday.com. So if you had been successful with those bubble ads bubble heads would have never landed with free app aday dot com which became of one of the largest Ios app marketing platform in the world. You know we ended up with 12000000 users $80000000 in revenue in 3 years we worked with ea. Zinga. Ah Groupon you name it anyone who’s anyone you know was ah working with with us at at 1 point and we were leveraging push notification to promote apps in the app store. So you know developers came to us and we sent a push notification to our audiences and that the app lend. On top of the app store often number 1 within that 67 hours really great business. You know did really well for three and a half years until Apple decided to change the rules of the app store to prevent apps from using push notification to promote other apps so we went from. Ah. Generating half a million two million dollars a month to nothing pretty much instantly. So um, that was that that unfortunate, you know you know story. But again, that’s what ended up leading us to eventually grow credit. So.

Alejandro Cremades: So always see you know you guys were doing pretty well. But then all of a sudden like almost overnight you know you guys need to shut down the business I mean I’m sure that that was very difficult for you I mean how was that to process because I mean from.

Joe Bayen: Um, yeah.

Alejandro Cremades: Doing very well and then all of a sudden like you find yourself like oh my God you know like now we have nothing we’re shutting down What’s next. What am I going to do walk us through through how was that emotionally for you as well.

Joe Bayen: Ah, emotionally, that was ah, extremely tough. You know, keep be mind you know? Ah I’m a competitor I like to be number one and I went from being number 1 to 0 you know? So even though, what’s amazing is the fact that even though financially I was completely. Um. You know say financially you know, mentally it was devastating I couldn’t sleep for so for 6 for foring six months you know I had nightmares waking up you know thinking? no that didn’t happen. It was mentally one of the most challenging. Ah. You know in you know, keep in mind that also our platform was helping in the developers get their paid apps promoted that their apps wantedd for free, not for free or for gp we we had the rev share business model where we enabled ind the developers to really make a lot of money through us. And we also had enabling kids with no money to get paid apps for free. So it was a good mission. It was not only about me and the company doing well we were helping ah literally we helped over over 3000 developers you know promote their apps generate more income. And millions of the kids millions of kids around the world get paid up for free. So it was devastating the mission because the mission ended the mission that was doing a lot of good ended. That’s why it was also devastating. You know, but.

Alejandro Cremades: So Obviously you know, ah you either succeed or you learn So I’m sure that the and lessons that you took from you. You know were really valuable and especially for what you ended up doing with grow credit now grow credit which is your baby now What you’re pushing a Rocket ship. You know you guys say have gone through multiple. Iterations and multiple pivots to be able to to adjust to to to where the market or what the market was requesting from you. So How were those ah transitions you know for or those pivots for you to be like okay I think we got it now.

Joe Bayen: Um, yes.

Joe Bayen: Ah, that’s ah, that’s a great story. So um, so really quick right? You know grow credit started as a pivot of you know it was four pivot. We went from lenny credit to um. Ah, Len Bike to ah credit plus to draw credit and and it’s been a 10 year long journey 10 years of my life. You know in the entering the tenth year you know the way it it started was you know when.

Joe Bayen: Free appate ended I ended up but working as an eirr at Science Inc the Vc fund in Santa Monica famous frotic sidsf funded dollarship club and doing really well with liquidquor death. You know as of late you know and in 2014 I mean I was there because you know they did not. They did not have a lot of expertise with ah you know mobile ah mobile as or mobile like acquisition on mobile so I was helping them on that front. But while I was there I was just learning how the company was structured in the sense that they were really good at hiring a lot of great talent. And that’s the biggest lesson that I’ve learned from ah Science Inc is the importance of ah, really hiring the best of the best to be surrounded by the best of the best. So in 2015, you know something? ah 2014 fintech became very popular with acons venmo.

Joe Bayen: Robin Hood and whatnot and this when I thought about how can I leverage fintech to help my younger self you know because when I moved out here I had no idea about credit score credit card firecode nothing you know I was offered a card at Miami I used the card I was late here and there without understanding the consequences of being late. And when I had to buy my first car of course had terrible credit score very expensive and and it took me overall four or five years to build to reveal my credit so that left Bitterer taste in my mouth and only that I thought it was because I was a foreigner that I was in that predicament but that wasn’t the case. A lot of my american friends. Also had no clue. You know the you know banks give them you know credit cards like candy they used it. They were late and everybody had to start from from ground 0 and that had to work hard to revealil their credit and I thought we could do better so I launched Lenny credit in January of 2015 and and and and with the goal was to extend micro loans to students and millennials and to offer them credit score education and free fico score I was able to partner with Fico and again to offer a consumer s free Fico Score and free credit scorecation. And we were able to extend the microlines of 100 ah of a hundred dollars up to $500 you know to our consumers and we noticed that a small dollar loan was powerful enough. You know to boost credit score predicts pretty significantly.

Joe Bayen: For consumers who you know had no credit or thin files. So ah, you know the the platform did well you know the bank of Joe was financing the loans because I mean I was completely new I had no experience in the in ah in lending even though I was a finance major no experience in like in landing or banking I was a really clean state. Which was actually an advantage which really enabled me to create because I didn’t know what was good or what was wrong. So I was really going there in a complete with a complete blank slate. You know? Sadly, we were too early for the market and banks had no idea of what we’re doing. We were leveraging a plaid. To underwrite consumers. You know, leveraging their banking and account transaction history. We were very early with that that method of underwriting but by the time we needed to scale and raise debt financing. You know? Ah, we didn’t we didn’t have any takers. You know, really banks were. You know, wanted us to have a longer portfolio history before extending us. You know a line of credit or at that facility and a ran out of cash. This was ah one of the toughest you know, ah time of my life. You know in 2017 I just sleep completely right out of cash. Um. And it started with ah a you know when we worship super when we had the opportunity to both raise a um, a large seat round and ah and and and a large ah debt financing round disaster really happened. You know I met you know I connected with the mockcubin.

Joe Bayen: You know in um, in a January of February February of 2017 and he was we were talking for eight weeks he was on the verge of investing you know in Lenny credit and right before we were supposed to sign the deal on my birthday mind you. Which was april eighth by the way two days ago you know is you know he pulled out we had around I thought about $8000000 in a combination of um of equity and debt round and we ended up with nothing I mean 0 and the reason why pullout was is a good experience for. For our listeners here is the fact that I trusted experience over my instincts and that which was at the time I realized that you know you instincts are most of the time right? You know our Vp of finance wanted to change the terms of the deal at the last minute and I didn’t think it was a. A good idea for a variety of reason it was just like a really a change of thing for 1 point or 2 but something insignificant and um and when and I told I don’t think it’s right, but she had a decade more than a decade of experience. You know, making those deals so I basically um, you know I was scared fear. And that’s the case where I was feared to make mistakes. No. so so um and the learnings that fear is dangerous. You know if you um if you you know because I was scared to trust myself and I you know extended my trust to someone that had more experience and as a result you know when my Mark cuban heard.

Joe Bayen: That but that small change he decide to pull out you know, but the mystics was mine mine my own because at the end of the day I’m the Ceo I’m the founder you know at the end of that I’m responsible for this but the learnings from that experience is that you have to trust your instincts all the time you know? So um, but.

Alejandro Cremades: Um.

Alejandro Cremades: So I mean you guys ended up doing pretty well because I mean you fair raise day about 120000000 and that’s a combination of both equity and debt so walk us through how for a business like grow credit. You know how you go and how you think about.

Joe Bayen: Um, yeah.

Alejandro Cremades: Debt versus equity and how the process of raising money for both works.

Joe Bayen: Yeah, so um, yeah, we ended up raising. Ah you know, following that that story we ended up raising one hundred and twenty million dollars our last round was led by Usa where we raised $20000000 from them. You know our equity around was led by arena investors they’ve been fantastic with us and the way. We are businesss the you know the debt facility is mainly airmarked you know towards our lending operations. You know that’s really where we’re using the fundts to be able to scale up this seamlessly without having to raise an equity around and and the the equity is really leveraged. You know towards growth and um. And of course you know, ah business operation hiring and whatnot so that’s how that’s the the mix the debt you know to ah to equity makes you know 1 score really earmarked for grade the team marketing and the other one is to really scale the the lending operations.

Alejandro Cremades: So as obviously when it comes to investors. Um, vision is a big one. So if you were to go to sleep tonight Joe Bayen and you wake up in a world where the vision of grow credit is fully realized what does that world look like.

Joe Bayen: So the world looks like we are embedded in all fintech most fintech apps all fintech apps and within ah and within all banks and that vision is already materializing. You know, um, we completed a partnership with Wells Fargo it was in the you know it was ah featured it was ah in the news. Um about two months ago as I mentioned Usa that ah led our series a around. We have another massive insurance companies that we sign a marketing deal with. You know we um have another massive mortgage company the two the biggest mortgage companies that also signed a deall with us and the pivot that we did we grow. We went from being a b to c b two b b two c platform. Transforming into a b two b two c platform. You know we developed an api where our bank partners you know and finex can offer our loans. You know to you know their user base and help them establish and build credit at the same time again. What is unique about grow credit is the fact that. We have a free plan. We are enabling consumers to build and establish credit by leveraging the Netflix account hulu accounts and you know and and their cell phone plans and most importantly, we’re able to do it for free. You know if you have a Spotify account Two Nine nine

Joe Bayen: We are enabled. We are enabling consumers to establish and build credit which is massively important you know in the United States and we’ve been able to extend that capabilities to of to all our partners who are integrating you know the grow the grow api within their their platform and most importantly in terms of creativity. We launched pay. We’d grow which is essentially paypal for subscriptions that builds credit and is a completely novel ah system which enables subscription to become a dual um purpose to to basically have a dual purpose. Ah, service in a sense that now you know when users sign up for Netflix I mean soon for Netflix they will be able to instantly build credit with a Netflix account and that’s completely new. Never existed before and we have some ah major partners that we where where we work expected to launch you know over the coming months and now. Yeah so that’s the 2 novel way basically pay power for subscriptions and embedded ah credit building you know for for for for ah banks and fintech. So. That’s the the 2 areas that we’re expanding in and that’s and we’re already getting a lot traction and. And now. Yeah, we expect that you know we did ah and we did the next decade we should be pervasive everywhere.

Alejandro Cremades: So let’s say now you know I’m able to bring you back in time I put you to a time machine and I bring you back to the moment where you were thinking about the jumping ship and and starting your own you know company. You know, obviously what ended up becoming icsa mobile but let’s say you’re able to. Sit down with that younger Joe and you’re able to give that younger Joe one piece of advice for launching a business but will that be and why given what you know now.

Joe Bayen: Um, giving what I know now. Um you know the you know Network I mean ah the networking the network earlier you know, um, the idea that you cannot do it Alone. You know, having a strong ah environment a strong support. An amazing group advisors as early as possible will make a huge Difference. We were able to get there later on. But if I had had the net the network that I have now. You know things would have accelerated at at a much faster Pace. So having a strong network of smart you know individuals who already had the experience that you ah that you need you know to scale your business is massively important and it requires a lot of time and dedication to build that network. So. Focusing a lot of time into convincing you know, ah you know industry leaders in the industry that I’m trying to get involved with to join our journey so doing that sells jobs that sells job actually has a multiplier effect over time. So That’s really one. Thing that I would ah that I would tell myself and now also um ah what else I would you know?? Ah oh yes, Um, yeah, embrace it to not stressing as much.

Joe Bayen: To embracing the downs understanding that the lows are the greatest opportunity for growth. You know if I had known that you know it would have ah you know I would have lived ah past one hundred years or past a hundred probably but. Having that knowledge that the stress is an opportunity you know embracing there’s ah, there’s a ted video that I highly recommend our listeners to ah to go to called you know, um, how to make stress your friend. You know, understanding that video will really teach. You. How. Seeing observing stress as an ally have a multiplier effect on everything that you are attempting to accomplish stress is here to help us. It’s not here to destroy us in hip. It’s here to really make us alert and actually also make us extremely creative and on that fraud. Pay. We grow came from stress because we were we we didn’t have enough our funding. We didn’t raise enough you know and ah we need to find a way to bolster our growth and that stress that pressure you know, led to pay we grow that pressure that stress. Also led to freeappate.com you know now pressure and stress also led you know to ah ah to grow credit and let me buy you know and understanding that stress is actually your ally and setting up system to really.

Joe Bayen: Manage stress effectively in in my case working out a lot running a lot you know, meditating a lot and reading a lot educating myself a lot and so that’s really um, you know what I would teach my younger self.

Alejandro Cremades: I love it so Joe for the people that are listening that will love to reach out and say hi. What is the best way for them to do so.

Joe Bayen: They can go to ah to Linkedin you know at you know ah Joe Biden you know I’m the only one on Linkedin. So I’m easy to find there. You know on um, ah, Twitter as well. You know on um on Instagram same Joe Biden you know we have a. Ah, medium where where I have a lot of ah a post on that on culture which has been ah, a critical part of our of our we haven’t had a chance to talk about this but culture has been a critical part of our um of our efforts about growth and I have a lot of ah content. You know, talking discussion in our culture on medium and um, yeah.

Alejandro Cremades: Amazing. Well hey Joe thank you so much for being on the deal maker show today. It has been an honor to have you with us.

Joe Bayen: And um, that’s it. Yeah.

Joe Bayen: Um, yeah, thank you.

*****

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