James Tan On Taking His Last Company Public And Now Investing In 4 Of The Biggest Startup Unicorns In Asia

James Tan has gone from startup founder to operating an $80M venture capital fund to fuel the growth of other early-stage ventures today. Now on his third fund, he’s already helped create four unicorn companies. His investment company, Quest Ventures, has funded ION Mobility, Carousell, Carro, and Hepmil.

In this episode, you will learn:

• Network effects
• Fundraising and pitching investors
• How to pitch your idea to James Tan’s latest fund

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About James Tan:

James Tan is Managing Partner at Quest Ventures, a top venture capital fund in Asia. Prior to this, James was co-founder and COO of 55tuan, a NASDAQ-listed e-commerce group that grew to more than 200 cities and 5,000 employees across China.

James is a board member or angel investor in top-tier startups in Asia, such as 99.co, Carousell, Carro, Ethis, Glife, and Shopback.

James serves on several non-profit organizations. He is Chairman of the Action Community for Entrepreneurship – Singapore’s national voice for entrepreneurship; and the Social Impact Catalyst – Southeast Asia’s largest youth network for social impact.

He is a board member of the Applied Innovation Institute – global leaders in industries, government, and academia for business transformation; and Sports Excellence Business – helping athletes excel in life after sport transition.

James is a former Chairman of the Business Angel Network of Southeast Asia – Asia’s oldest angel investment network.

He has been a guest speaker at Asia-focused and private equity events such as ITB Berlin, Private Equity Insights, Stanford-PARC Digital Cities, SWITCH, and World Islamic Economic Forum. He has guest lectured at universities including Fudan, IE, NTU, Tsinghua, and UC Berkeley.

James was recognized as an outstanding overseas Chinese by the Overseas Chinese Affairs Office of the State Council of China. He is a recipient of the Alumni Award from the University of South Australia.

He received scholarships from both Beijing and Singapore governments for his MBA from Tsinghua University in partnership with MIT. During the first dot-com era, he studied and dropped out of computer science at NUS to work on two-sided markets.

For leisure, James enjoys photography and has been featured in ComputerWorld, Readers’ Digest, and commercially represented by Liaison Agency. He backpacks Asia and volunteers in marine conservation as a PADI scuba-diving instructor.

Connect with James Tan:

• Crunchbase
• LinkedIn
• PitchBook
• Bloomberg

Read the Full Transcription of the Interview:

Alejandro Cremades: All righty hello everyone and welcome to the dealmakerr show. So today. We have a very exciting guest. We’re going to be talking about going to both sides of the table you know from being a repeated entrepreneur several times building scaling financing and exiting now to investing in. Over a hundred companies. You know very interesting you know also the unicor that they have as well as portfolio companies. But I think that we’re gonna be learning quite a bit and we’re gonna find this very inspiring I’m sure so without farther do let’s welcome our guest today James Sta welcome to the show.

James Tan: Thank you very much for the invitation Ali.

Alejandro Cremades: So born in Singapore so why give us a little of a walk through memory lane. How was life growing up.

James Tan: Ah I witnessed a lot of changes in the last ah 3040 years Singapore is really really change and really from many of our neighboring countries is a combination really of the hardworking people that we have. And then a lot of opportunities that came out we and asked capitalizing on it.

Alejandro Cremades: I mean no kidding I think that over the course of time I mean Singapore right now there’s a lot of innovation going on in Singapore so I think that what what do you think I say feel that I mean obviously you grew up. You know, being part of that too.

James Tan: Um, Singapore wasn’t really in the radar at all twenty years ago as an ecosystem for startups much less venture capital or any of the tech stuff that we now pretty much take for granted and so we have really been putting a lot of effort into growing this ecosystem. And so it is done by a combination with a combination of startups and institutions of higher learning like schools government agencies coming together to remove impediments to growth andro, encouraged growth or so corporates coming in with proof of concept or corporates coming in with their corporate venture funds. And last but not least the few that I’m currently in risk capital the angel investors and venture capital firms that are investing so all these 5 pieces have to come together and I’m very proud that Singapore has ah made these 5 pieces come together. Um, effectively and so we are now the number one ecosystem in Southeast Asia. And easily top 5 in the entire Asia.

Alejandro Cremades: Now 1 thing you know that is very interesting here for you is that you know as part of your studies you did combine not only computer science but then also the business side of things you know I find that those are the best things you know and when you are able to find someone that masters both you know he can be very dangerous when it comes to business. So how did how did you come up with the ad or or why did you thought that combining those 2 you know would be a good way to go. So.

James Tan: I will hesitate to say that combining means that we are masters of both Sometimes it can means that we have masters of none or we just really script the surface of each one I think is it is important. Not then as it is now that computing. Ah, doesn’t function by itself. We need to know what’s the market value and so the business aspect is extremely important and then from the other side if you are just a business ah major businessman with no technical skill set or operational skill set to really call your own then I think it’s also a scary place to be in. So I think company combining both. Not just computing and and and and business or maybe psychology and economics and so on you get a mix of 2 2 sectors that can interact with each other and hopefully some sparks come out of it.

Alejandro Cremades: Now for you two I think that you trouble quite a bit you know, ah you were studying I mean you went to Australia you came here to the us you were in Singapore in China so what do you think that opened up for you in terms of um, you know perspective and way of thinking. Okay.

James Tan: Ah, coming from Singapore the number 1 thing that really opened up for me was the myset shift in terms of not just doing something for 1 city or 1 country but really going out and going to a large market or if it’s disparate markets like Southeast Asia is or Europe is. Then 1 thing or have the myset to want to go beyond just your comfort zone your home market and to go into the bigger region itself that is the number one my myset shift I would say the number 2 thing is to really be open to and the trips. And the exposure to Silicon Valley and to maybe the overall broader us market were really eyeopen and inspirational back then when you saw first stock com boom and then fast forward to asecond.comboom it really was inspirational and really resulting me doing what I’m doing right now.

Alejandro Cremades: So then and we’ll talk about that in just a little bit because I mean that switch you know going from one part of the table to the other is quite interesting but I guess you know one thing that you know is true is that you dropped out of school I mean that’s that’s pretty unbelievable, especially you know like there where the culture is very much about. Partying and you know and and and and going to a corporate job and and very conservative in that regard I’m sure it was not an easy you know conversation with your parents.

James Tan: Oh yeah, it was not an easy conversation I with with the parents I will say that for the first ten years after I did that. Ah it was ah continuously being hop upon and you gotta be my dad I have a really reasonable first exit and ah but he is still hop upon. And as an asian is is something that I think we have to deal with um I remember when I left the university and there was a stack of a mariculation cards is a stack of cards which cuts so few in the entire university you know know so I like to think back and say that I was courageous. But maybe then there was a mix of just a bit of maybe optimism plus foolishness that really result in me taking that step to say okay, it’s time to tap into the.com boom and not missed. It.

Alejandro Cremades: And it was a good step because I mean first company first exit. So what were you guys you know doing there with the business and then at what point you know that’s you know, ah getty images. You know, come knocking to ah get the company acquired.

James Tan: So we are in what we call a 2 wo-sider market so we have something on one side that people want to sell and then someone on the other side wants to buy and so in ah creating the marketplace that we did international marketplaces came into southeas Asia looking at opportunities in Southeast asia the broader region and said that. We want to be here. How do we be here and we were very nicely positioned at that point in time as an acquisition target for them.

Alejandro Cremades: So then tell us about that process at all I mean what did you learn and and how how fast how quick and because I mean it was your first fixxi your first process and money process. So I’m sure it was nerverfracking.

James Tan: Um, it. It was ah it was nerve-racking. It was also quite a fast process. Um, we started a company during the.comboom but we also saw hit during the.combust so it was ah and you you got to remember remember Twenty five twenty years ago in Southeast asia there was no viable venture capital scene or startup scene and so to raise capital would have been impossible and since we are functioning as a marketplace in Southeast Asia and therefore if we were to pitch the same story to a european vc or a usvc chances are they will not understand it anyway and so we were pretty much on our own and so it was a pretty quick process also primarily driven by us wanting to make sure that we have a good outcome looking at the the bus that was going on around the world starting from Silicon Valley and second thing that we really really learn is that we are not equipped to scale a company to a super huge size like what we are familiar with today with uber and carol cells that we have and so on so we were not and despite the fact that now we are very. Comfortable with backing young startup and thinking that they can scale to huge companies at a point in time as someone running a startup with no heroes to look up to in this region and no viable case studies and so and you know everything was true pc magazine if you recall Cnec there wasn’t tech crunched inspirational stories like this.

James Tan: We were filling the stones as we crossed the River as ah of our one of the more famous Politician would call it. So yeah, use the learning process.

Alejandro Cremades: Hey well you know, no money raised. You know all exit all money for your guys is pocket for the founders I’m sure that you know getting that money. Especially since you started this company in your early 20 s feel pretty good.

James Tan: It felt good but don’t forget that we talk about how in the first ten years of of my life after I left ah your university. My parents was still hopping on it despite the exit. So.

Alejandro Cremades: And well I well I’m sure that they were happy when you invited them for dinner. So let’s let’s let’s let’s switch gears here to the next thing to the next company that you did so five five so how did the idea because I mean as they say once an entrepreneur always an entrepreneur. So once the transaction happen. Then what were the sequence of events that needed to happen for you to to go out it again with five five

James Tan: Yeah, so five five is a story that took place in in china now rather than singapore and so the the learnings from this experience ah was that I needed really to be in a much larger market a market that also has a viable. Ah, ecosystem that support us in terms of risk capital like vc firms and also I went there because I wanted to study. So remember the hopping and so I took a scholarship over and and went over to tim hu university in china and mit to get my masters. And along the way from my fellow co-founders who are interested in the 2 side of marketplace again and so with the reemergence of another dot com boom in when 2009 2010 and that was when we started five five

Alejandro Cremades: And what ended up being the business model of five five how are you guys making money first.

James Tan: So ah, in short it started as a groupon and became a farm table so well, it’s a long journey over several years before it became what it is um as a marketplace or as a 2 wo-side market. We are doing something that we have been familiar with. Someone wants to sell something on 1 side in this case is so familiar discounts and so on and people on the other side wants to buy something and we provide a platform that ran across a whole China to provide yeah such services to consumers.

Alejandro Cremades: And and also 1 thing that is very interesting here I’m sure that a lot of people are going to be um, wondering because marketplaces they not easy. You know it’s like starting 2 companies at the same time, especially if you have the 2 wo-sided as you were alluding to. You know, a lot of people. You know they talk about that is the chicken and the egg right? and and I and I’ve been building you know marketplaces too in the past and is I you want to you want to shoot the chicken and step on the egg. You know that’s the frustration that sometimes it creates to build those now I guess in this case for you. You know how? especially for the people that are listening. How did you guys go about having that liquidity in the marketplace. So that people were able to find what they were looking for in a short period of time to really create that retention.

James Tan: I think I think you’re absolutely right that we are trying to do 2 things at the same time building 2 companies at the same time and then getting things frustrated on one or the other and then also trying to figure out which one will really move the needle and and create a fly wheelel effect. So for us. He was really on provisia providing the dukes. That people really want. Um so the deal that really kickstar the whole thing for us was because avatar the movie. The first. The first movie was launch at a time and everybody wanted to catch it and we managed to get super fantastic dukes and so that really created the the ball rolling.

Alejandro Cremades: So at what point do you realize hey I think we’re into something here.

James Tan: Ah, when when we roll something like say avatharas or something else and we realize that he was being step up within 1 or 2 days sometimes even faster and then there was a first indication that we are doing something right in the city that we were in which is beijing. And then we of course started the experiment with you know? yeah 400 cities in China so we started the experiment experiment with other cities and we realized that there were and a good word of mouth and so on people familiar with the kind of our business model and. That really got the bar ruling in replicating the business model to other cities.

Alejandro Cremades: And how that’s typically like people talk about this a lot on on Marketplaces Network effects you know what? what were the network effects that you guys were seeing and then also how do you define a network effect.

James Tan: So for us really is whether within the first three months ideally within the first three weeks but we’re the first three months of operation in any city is it able to pay for itself. Um, so when in expansion and now from the yada side of the table as a Vc. While we are avocating fantastic grove and and going to new cities and new countries I’m very very mindful that we also got to control the amount risk that we goes into expansion and so the risk that I undertook and that we control at that point in time was about how much do we spend on getting a city really. And so they functions by myself. That’s a fly view. People are calling in to want to be featured and so on so for us timeline basis. It was based on 3 monthss and then cost basis or financial basis. It was based on cost recovery. Can we cover the cost of those people that we hiring in the city marketing guy operational guys and so on within three months Oftentimes it took faster than that because there were more used and then then we called pushup per day and there’s just a lot of people who want to get a good deal in China.

Alejandro Cremades: So so in this case being ruthless when going against the competition. What can you tell us about that.

James Tan: Yeah, so I think entrepreneurs maybe now part of the world in Southeast asia ah tend to be more gentleman and ladylike when they are dealing with their fellow competitors I mean on stage and in a environment where it’s public. Of course be be be nice about it. But in the business world. Ah, competition is like being on ah and a better few and this is ah this is ah idiom that’s been around for a long time because people tend to forget that if you are not a number 1 or number 2 or even number 3 then you are pretty much going to lose and when you lose it’s not just about you losing. Vcs lose whatever they’re put in and your staff your hundreds and thousands or thousands of staff are now wondering why are they our job and it’s totally up to you.

Alejandro Cremades: So I guess that the that brings me to the question of work life balance. What are your thoughts on that.

James Tan: World balance is ah something wow is important. But I think if you are a founder running a startup a you show of course encouraging your employees but as a founder running a startup you can only either make things cheaper than your competition which is generally a large corporate out there. Ah, you do something faster than your competition again your large corporates out there and so they don’t work these large corporations don’t work on Saturday and Sunday they definitely don’t work you know on night to nine on or and two nine pm or late and like that’s where you can come in and you work harder and you work faster you work longer hours and. If. All everything comes together and you’re going iing. You are definitely in a better position than the corporateperts they are trying to disrupt.

Alejandro Cremades: And what was that the what was that process of capitalizing the business because obviously with this company. It was a little bit later on and I’m sure that the ecosystem was a little bit more developed. Ah so what was that way of capitalizing the business prior to taking the company public.

James Tan: Ah, we were the system ecosystem was definitely much much much more mature and being in China itself. It was definitely much more mature in terms of venture capital funding and also private equity funding. So all our funding rounds for venture capital. Ah, before we took it public on this day.

Alejandro Cremades: And and how much capital did you guys raise prior to the ipo.

James Tan: We raised about 40,000,000 um in total.

Alejandro Cremades: Okay, and then and then why did you decide that it was time to take the company public and especially in Nasdaq you know being in China. Yeah.

James Tan: So um, naste is the mecca for tech companies around the world and for chinese companies with foreign capital the logical places to go public would be the us markets or markets like Hong Kong and even Singapore. And so it was very natural for us to consider nasteck as an option because it’s the mecca and because of foreign capital in terms of why we decided to take it public at that point in time I think many people fail to or many entrepreneurs fail to understand that there is a window of opportunity when your. The industry that you’re in and the company that you’re doing can be well understood and well covered by the market at large the analyst and the new Joe Public who buys the the equity of your company and once you miss that it’s going to be a tough sell because now you’re up against the new trend. So anyone going public right now. Have to deal with say an upcoming trend of Ai and so that window ahs are strongly encouraged to understand and and understand where the window is and to well have an exit event ah during the window.

Alejandro Cremades: So I guess you know the yeah we we were talking about it earlier too on fundraising. What is that mentality of no one Owes you anything when going through the fundraising process.

James Tan: So um I when I was in China and I’m in Singapore and by berf. So when I went to China there were some um, actually many of the Vc funds. There were run by Singapore ins and Hong Kong and so on. And so ah, 1 thing that really struck me was that it doesn’t matter whether you’re from the same country or same hometown. Your business must work at the maximum that the guy or the lady from the same home town will take a courtesy meeting but otherwise everything is still back to how good your company is how good your team is and so on. But really no one knows you’re living. And so when we are now on the other side of the table looking at the use and whether they are from Philippines or whether they are from Malaysia it doesn’t matter whether they are from the same home now. The business must work.

Alejandro Cremades: So so so in this case, you know for you I mean it sounds like the company was doing pretty well you know I it’d speak. It was a 500,000,000 valuation which is incredible. Ah, but eventually you know like you you you really start to think you know about. Something else, you know which is getting to the other side of the table and and really making investments I mean you you made domain investments. But 1 thing led to the next and then all of a sudden you know you’re here you know leading quest ventures which is the venture firm that that you started so how did the idea come about. Ah, and yeah and and and and what are you guys doing with quest ventures.

James Tan: So quest ventures started also in Beijing. It was during the time of five five when we were going out to do merger and acquisitions to also do roww apps into five five and so it was used pretty much as a vehicle for that and when we went outside of China. Ah, it was a modelt that really didn’t work as an operating company trying to use a Vc firm to do acquisitions because there’s no rollup to be done and so when cres ventures really function as a normal vc firm outside of China itself and today I’m based in Singapore using this same vehicle. To do investments and we are lucky to have had the backing of so sovereign well funds into our main Vc funds and along the way several other vc funds to invest into the potential of this region.

Alejandro Cremades: Um, how many how how how much money do you guys now have on their management.

James Tan: We have closed ah about 80,000,000 I hope that we will pass that very soon. Um and so cross ah tree funds.

Alejandro Cremades: And you said eighty eighty million Eight zero okay 80000000 okay got it now in this case, you know for you guys. What’s the um, you know how how did you develop an investment thesis for the for the operation.

James Tan: Yes.

James Tan: Um, our Tcs has stayed the same in the last ten years where something mass web events obviously so the companies that we look at must have the 3 following characteristics and the characteristics are scalability. So. The first thing is ah can if you can work in a place like Singapore. Can it grow from $1000000 to say $10000000 and if you know and if you the second one will be replicability. So can this same thing from singapore be taken over to another place like kaollopo manila and and do the same thing one to $10000000 and how many of such cities are there because. Doesn’t make sense to just have as singapore and coal lompo and that’s it it needs to be beyond just this few. Ah first year cities so that’s replicability if we can take it to other cities and last but not least a large internet community and so while this last center soundite isn’t everybody on the internet nowadays. ten years ago it wasn’t the case ten years ago we were looking at can xiaomi come and deploy or sell moreship android phones so ten years ago there was that um today we are less concerned about the pervasiveness of the internet and availability of people. You know, getting on the internet. Um, now we are more concerned about their ability to spend and how what do they want to spend on so these tc sets are more or less ah guided us in the last ten years we have done about 100 plus investments.

Alejandro Cremades: Um, and how many investments have you guys done too late.

Alejandro Cremades: How many unicorns out of those.

James Tan: We have 4 unicons out of them so pretty proud of the results. But it’s also really because ah we were early in the game you think I like to think that we understand this this region well enough and so even until today my passion really lies in the early stage. Companies and the founders coming to meet us rather than the late stage b and c and d kind of firms that come in me because the early state confirms which we back ten years ago eight years ago and so on not today uniconns and while the challenge is always in us and the kick and the excitement is really us to Can we find the next unicon you know in a year’s time 10 years ‘ time.

Alejandro Cremades: I mean out of a hundred you know plus investments for unicorns is a pretty good day hit batting batting average. So I guess for finding for being able to identify those unicorns early on. I mean now that you have 4 right? and and and I mean it’s not like one I mean once you’re lucky as they say twice, you’re good. So when you have 4 I’m sure that you’ve been able to see a pattern now with within all these founders that they had or the market or the way that they were going about things. What were those 3 you know, perhaps top 3 ingredients that you saw repeating on those 4 unicorn companies.

James Tan: Okay, um, I’ve been following your show so a lot of it actually is similar to what your um, all your other guests are are talking about so number one is the team itself. Ah, but the team is ah fineless unless I define what the team does the rooflessness. Desire to get things done no matter what comes and so whether it’s against competition against regulations so that they can get a job done and being in Southeast asia or even Asia itself you can imagine. This ah, especially the one ah going against assisting bureaucracy or regulation is something that is tough to do and so the tenac tenacity really what we boil on to ruthlessness to get things done and the third one would be really just work hard. Um. The founders that we are back. There are consistent that that of the the unicons ah consistently those guys who at they are working hard at 5 am m or they are still pinging at one two a m and so on I don’t I don’t advocate that you sleep late and so on I’m sure they sleep got 6 hours and 8 hours it’s just that. Every available minute neurals. They are thinking about how to make their business better because it translates to can can they provide a better working environment. A better company for their company for their employees who trust them and follow them so team rooflessness.

James Tan: And really just being hard working.

Alejandro Cremades: Amazing. Well hey I guess for many founders that are going to be listening that are going to be. You know, ah excited about the idea of pitching you you know, maybe an idea for them to is to schedule the email they emails to send automatically at 1 a m. Ah. There we go there. We go a good tip there guys now now one thing here you know obviously on the on the other side of the table being a Vc. Ah, it’s it’s much harder to raise money than raising money for your own company. Why is that the case. Okay.

James Tan: Um, for Vc firm. Um, yeah I think the the mentality is definitely not that of a startup founder where you are trying to raise funds every eighteen months or so and if you fail and you know you fail as a founder but for a Vc firm. We need to raise funding that lasts for 10 years so you can imagine investors or lps into us have to lock in for 10 years and they are pretty much trusting that for the next foreseeable future 3 to 5 years of active investments. Their quest ventures can spot the right things because it’s pretty much a blind pool. That they imagine that you have to you have to identify the right hec or have the right theses have a potential pipeline of maybe not even the next few years but maybe just the next one year and then you do the same good job again for a second and third and forfi and 50 and so on. So it’s much harder. And for investors to keep coming back and say I will support your second fund I’ll support your third fund and so on these are necessarily entities or people with deep pockets and so the usual injur investors or high level of individuals usually don’t cut it beyond the second or third funds that we run and so we are ah blessed. That we are supported by a fairly large institutional investors and so email funds.

Alejandro Cremades: And and 1 thing there that you’re alluding to is that you know on the deal flow side on the pipeline. You know those those lps those limited partners that are typically investing in your in your ge’s funds. They’re looking for for an advantage when it comes to that. Pipeline of dealflow I mean that pipeline that is going to give you access to this unicorns that nobody else is going to gain access to I mean how do you guys think about pipeline and creating those channels so that you’re able to gain access to those deals before anyone else.

James Tan: Um, after having been in this business for 10 years I the best companies really come from Referros is refers mostly from fellows less so from vc firms although they are as important and then the last of obviously will be call emails so the on the side.

James Tan: I’m very very proud to say that whether the founder has failed or has succeeded with us in the last ten years we are still in touch in some way and we do community events to continue to engage our entire ecosystem of founders. Ah, hundreds and hundreds of them not just in Singapore but in you know in jagata in in Philippines in Malaysia in Vietnam and so on so that they are continually plucking to what we do and you know when they if they fail and they start the next thing I’m very proud to say that so far we have also been able to support them. In their next journey because the departures have somehow also been quite amicable and then of course least when people talk to them and new entrepreneurs talk to them. The refers come out with so that’s that’s a very very important source with us and remember I go back to the you you go back to my passion area which is engaging with young founders. And so even as we are all growing old and then you remember that we all grew all together that kind of connections and memories is just not not possible to find if you are you know, but 1 brand new fun coming in. So I think we have a natural advantage there just because we are early in this. Ah. What is pretty much the world’s fastest growing region.

Alejandro Cremades: And imagine you were to go to sleep tonight James and and you wake up in a world where the vision of quest ventures is fully realized what does that world look like.

James Tan: Wow. Okay, um so vcs in this part of the world is pretty young if you look at ah established companies like sooa they are 50 years old I don’t intend to work 50 years before we become what is. What is so pretty much a household name where entrepreneurs are concerned I think currently we are as household as you can get in some key markets in Southeast Asia we are also as household ni as you can get in parts of central asia so my idea will be. We are household nim. For sure in these 2 big regions and then hopefully we are also somewhat household names in the other potential regions that we want to expand into.

Alejandro Cremades: So then so then I guess you know you see now different experiences that you’ve had multiple companies that you’ve started um multiple companies that you have invested in tons of unicorns as well that you’ve seen.

Alejandro Cremades: If you had the opportunity of go back or of going back in time James and I put you into this time machine and you’re able to go back in time to that moment where you were dropping out from school and you were having that tough chat with your parents and let’s say you were able to have a chat with your younger self. And you were able to give that younger self one piece of advice before launching a business. What would that be and why given what you know now.

James Tan: Do it earlier drop out earlier. Do the thing earlier raise funding earlier. Yeah, don’t have the distraction or something else in my case, the distraction or so studying. There was a distraction so just focus on it. And perhaps you have been a much big outcome.

Alejandro Cremades: I love it. Well James for the people that are listening especially for the founders that will love to pitch you. What is the best way for them to reach out and say hi.

James Tan: Ah, we are conductible on our website wwwresers.com or you can email me james.panatrejust.com

Alejandro Cremades: Amazing! Easy he enough? Well hey James thank you so much for being on the deal maker show today. There has been an honor to have you with us.

James Tan: Um, thank you Ali! Thank you.

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