James Lochrie On Selling His First Company For $400 Million And Now Helping Startups Scale Globally

James Lochrie achieved one of the biggest startup exits in Canada with his first company. Now he is investing in other founders to help them bring their world-changing ideas to life. The firm, Thin Air Labs, has invested in startups like Clinify, PayShepherd, Rehabtronics, and PhenoTips.

In this episode, you will learn:

• What Thin Air Labs has been investing in
• Board dynamics
• Growing yourself as a leader
• James Lochrie’s top advice for entrepreneurs
• Managing your balance sheet in the current banking crisis

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About James Lochrie:

James Lochrie serves as Managing Partner at Thin Air Labs. He serves as Advsior at Acuspire. He also serves as Investment Advisor at Child Health and Wellness Fund at UCeed.

James served as Board Member at Leankor. He was the Founder and served as Chief Executive Officer at Exhibition Capital. He also serves on the Board of Directors at InterGen.

James co-founded Envio. He co-founded and served as Chief Product Officer at Wave Financial. He also serves as a Capital Partner at Thin Air Labs. Earlier, he worked as Director of IT at Farm Business Consultants.

James is a successful technology entrepreneur who leveraged his accounting career into co-founding the global fin-tech startup Wave, where he was CTO and CPO.

James has a passion for the progress that innovation can provide and enjoys working with people who create sustainable businesses that solve real-world problems at scale. He also serves as Board Member and Advisor at Athennian.

Connect with James Lochrie:

• Crunchbase
• LinkedIn
• PitchBook
• Bloomberg

Read the Full Transcription of the Interview:

Alejandro Cremades: All righty hello everyone and welcome to the dealmakerr show. So super excited about the founder that we have today. He actually did one of the largest exits in Canada you know recently I think that we’re going to be really enjoying you know how that journey went and how everything came about. And then also what he’s up to now you know, really helping founders so without a doubt you know you’re all going to find this very very inspiring so without farther ado let’s welcome our guest today James lucky look welcome to the show so you were born and raised in Toronto.

James Lochrie: Thanks Ali Andrew great to be here. Yes, sir.

Alejandro Cremades: But you know definitely you know my grandparents I’m sure that you learned quite a bit there so give us a walk through memory lane. How was life growing up.

James Lochrie: You know I think ah you know in hindsight you look back after 50 years and and think about the challenge that people had to go through when they immigrated into a new country and um, you know it was really about you know what? my parents did well um, they they didn’t struggle but they they weren’t. Ah, they weren’t flush with cash so it was always a bit of survival and what I look back on now as an adult and and can see is the social structure that surrounds me as somebody that’s grown up in this in this country the support systems that I’m able to access they didn’t have that. Ah, they didn’t have that social. Um, the family and and everything else that helps you know, just people be more successful as they continue to go through life so they had to struggle through all that and I think that was you know one of the things that when I look back at was one of the great helps for me just becoming a resilient person. Is looking back at how they had to struggle through certain things that are you know, nothing terrible but it’s just the financial struggle the social struggles those kinds of things that they had to endure. Um I don’t have to do that and that is something that has allowed me to be able to look into the future and say I can achieve. Things I can try things I can take risks I’ve got support systems so I was really privileged to have that as a backdrop of something that gave me a value system that allowed me to to eventually get into the game ah of entrepreneurship and and take the risks that I’ve taken. So.

Alejandro Cremades: And we’ll talk about that in just a little bit but let’s talk about technology because it sounds like technology is something that really capture your capture your attention and day that was part of the studies that you did too.

James Lochrie: Yeah, really, it started in my own house. My dad was a software developer worked for the hydro company in in Canada or in Ontario and and there was a introduction of. Computers and technology into my life at ah, a young age. So I had that kind of lack of fear or or anxiety around getting into this stuff and fortunately when I was a young kid in between my home and my school there was a radio shack and that’s when the new the the personal computers came out the the t r s eight computer. And I used to go and sit there and just hack away a keys and try and figure out how to make video games on these machines and then just continue to do that in school as well. But school and I just didn’t it’s kind of like ah oil and water is is I did well in school but I just didn’t enjoy it and quite frankly I don’t think the teachers enjoyed me being there either very much. So I just had a hard journey through school so most of what I learned in technology was self-taught or taught in an informal manner and it it actually I think that was the best thing for me to have that type of ah a journey through the the introduction of technology in my life because it made me very self-sufficient. In how I approach those things and it made me very curious. It made me somebody that was not afraid of jumping into new technologies trying new things and seeing what fits what doesn’t so that that was kind of my I always. Ah.

James Lochrie: Enjoy technology and also hated it at the same time and sometimes it’s one of those things you know you’re on these platforms. It’s like ah how does this work and Zoom isn’t working um, but I love it and I hate it at the same time. It’s ah it’s quite a dichotomy with when it comes to tech.

Alejandro Cremades: So We think with University I mean you you drop out I’m sure that your parents were not very very excited about that and I’m sure that for you, you know that was the some uncertain times and you know in the end you know you,, you’re the kind of guy that thrives you know in a certain times. So I think that what what happened there. You know what happened there and also how was it for you to Navigate. You know all of all of that uncertainty.

James Lochrie: Yeah, it was difficult because you know when I’m talking about when I’m 22 23 years old I dropped out 3 times by then which is kind of a testament to um to my parents and their desire for me to get a degree and and what society was expecting of me. Um, but. After I made that decision that university was not going to be in my future. It really came down to how am I going to survive I started a landscaping company did that for about a year I really didn’t like it. There was just you know I kept burning my arms on exhausts and all this I just didn’t like it. It wasn’t my thing. Um. And then I got a job in an accounting firm and a very low-level job. It was one of those things I got my foot in the door and it was I just needed to pay the rent and so that’s what I did and I ended up staying at that company for 16 years and fortunately for me, it was about every three years I was able to advance positions and move into something new and exciting and eventually I I took a role in the technology team after spending a significant amount of time in in the operations of the accounting firm that switch enabled me to understand how technology. Worked in the operations of business and what I had learned previous was how business actually functioned how finances functioned how entrepreneurs thought and applying that technology with that perspective into ah into the accounting world was really a great learning experience and it.

James Lochrie: Took me on a journey where ah back in 2009 I ended up leaving the company and starting wave and it was based on a lot of the um, a lot of the learnings I had had over time around. Ah how how entrepreneurs think what the data looks like. How banking operates all of those things that I had learned in in both the operations and the technology role I was in allowed me to come up with these concepts around. Ah what wave eventually became ah and I don’t want to take all the credit for there was a great team of people that came up with all the products and. And enhancements and all the things that we have within wave today but it was really that starting point came from a journey of of coming through traditional industry and and then just figuring out some innovation.

Alejandro Cremades: Now you did spend quite a bit of time there I mean it was a little bit over 16 years before you know you venture out into into really taking a stab at on entrepreneurship. So sixteen years is is quite the time. How how old were you when when you gave your notice. Wow.

James Lochrie: I was 38 or 38 years old yeah yeah

Alejandro Cremades: And then what what do you think? what do you? why? why? I mean you had it in you I mean your your father Also ah you know had the bug as well as an entrepreneurial. So but they you had it in you. What do you think? what? what? What do you? think it took so long. Yeah.

James Lochrie: I think there is you know that’s a great question I struggle with that when I to be honest with myself with that question I think part of it is was fear of taking a risk I think the. Ah, the longer I stayed the harder it was to leave because of I had three young kids who were in private school they were in ski lessons. We had a nice home. All of the things that are the trappings of a job were at play there but there was another aspect of just. Personal confidence in being able to take that risk I think that’s another piece of it that I had to overcome and you know that sixteen years like I said I was very fortunate to continue to move in in roles and responsibilities and and the way that I was approaching the business I was in which gave me a little bit of that entrepreneurial. Ah, energy that allowed me to be innovative in certain sections but it got to a point where I kind of reached the top of where I was going to go and hit that ceiling and to burst to that next level I had to leave and I just got to the point where that was obvious I think I actually I remember sitting down and. Thinking to myself I’ve got about twenty five thirty years left of working in doing whatever I want if I stay in this job and I look back on 50 years working at this one 1 place I was going to be incredibly unhappy with what I offered the world.

James Lochrie: And I think that was one of the key moments where I was enabled myself to move forward.

Alejandro Cremades: So 2010 what what made it so obvious for you to take that leap.

James Lochrie: Um, I think there was a number of factors. There was the the kind of running out of headroom at the company I was in and that was ah a big motivator There was a desire for for more energy I wanted more energy in the things that I did so there was. There was an internal motivation that was percolating inside of me but at the same time I also noticed where things were happening. The internet was maturing. We were getting into the cloud-based products starting to emerge I had seen. 0 out of ah New Zealand had launched this online accounting platform Quickbooks online had already started but was a shell of what it is today and there was about a hundred other small little players in that market maybe 200 others ah small little players in the in the online accounting space market and. Um, we just came up with a concept that that allowed us to utilize all the technological advances and the migration onto cloud-based tools that was happening in the market to come up with a tool that really focused on the small micro-business owner. And ah, enable them to have features and ah and benefits that were traditionally only available to larger businesses that spent significant amounts of money on products and so we came up with this business model and concept that we thought would resonate to that group in the industry.

James Lochrie: And once we launched it kind of had a slow trickle of you know people coming in and then all of a sudden word started spreading and then it just took off it just word of mouth and um and just lack of different options in the market that serve those people. Ah, really just drove the initial growth of the company.

Alejandro Cremades: And what ended up being the business model of way for the people that are listening to get it How how are you guys making money there.

James Lochrie: Yeah, it’s a financial services company. So basically it was an online accounting. It is an online accounting platform that has all the bells and whistles on it. So it’s got the the general ledger and all the reporting and all that stuff that you you need to have with bank feeds and reconciliation. Got an invoicing platform receipt scanning bill payment those kinds of things and that was 100% free and that was one of the key things that made wave successful was we recognized where the product needed to be free and where we could make money off of it and so the first. Push into a monetization was payroll and so we we went into that first we should have gone into that second that was a mistake because it took a long time to to monetize that tool but that was kind of our our process bring on a whole bunch of business owners. Ah, have them use our free products have them use invoicing start adding on on things and so we started with ah payroll that was our first pay one then we added a payment system first using stripe then we built our own and that was the massive growth engine of wave. Later on we acquired a Neil bank and now we have full the banking function inside of it. So it really is an online financial services tool that small entrepreneurs can utilize in their business and we typically look at $5000000 revenue sizes probably our larger customer base.

James Lochrie: Ah, we’re typically in that smaller 1 or 2 employees now couple hundred thousand to five hundred thousand dollars worth of revenue. But we just do it at massive scale hundreds of thousands of millions of users.

Alejandro Cremades: And at what point do you realize this is taking off.

James Lochrie: There was one point when the Chrome store had just emerged. We had. We had gotten some momentum on customer acquisition through through search engines and and some marketplaces and things like that. But the Chrome store had come along. We threw up a ah listing on there because we just. Decided to span the world with you know our our brand and um, we started seeing quite a bit of traction coming out of the Chrome store and that was surprising to us and so we doubled down we made contact with them. We started building relationships with them. And then one day angry birds remember that old video game angry birds they they put up their first web. Ah, web instance of the game and it was on the Chrome store and so we had this massive angry birds banner and right below it was wave and we just saw an immense amount of customer acquisition come through that channel over a.

Alejandro Cremades: Yeah.

James Lochrie: Significant amount of time. Um, and so like half of our traffic was coming from there and we started seeing a thousand new businesses every day 1500 and it you know it was just this level of customer acquisition in this market that had never been seen before. And it was because we just had the right type of product. Free. Um, we had pretty good engagement of those free users and and we knew how to acquire them. We knew how to talk to them to get them to come and visit our site and that was really the the key to it was giving them a product that they. Normally wouldn’t pay for for free and then finding ways to monetize it on top of it. It’s pretty pretty straightforward freemium model.

Alejandro Cremades: And how much capital did you guys raise to date prior to the acquisition I mean Prior prior to the acquisition happening. How much capital was raised.

James Lochrie: And it was about a 100,000,000 us that we raised. Ah it was.

Alejandro Cremades: And that was a very interesting cup table 2 that you guys had you know first funds a strategics I mean how how did they all blend together and what kind of value were you able to to get from them.

James Lochrie: Yeah, you know it was um you know Omar’s ventures up here in Canada one of Canada’s largest venture investors was our first investor they invested in the seed round of the company and we were their very first investment ever. So we had this very young venture firm. And that was unique in that we actually had 3 partners sit on our board as they continue to mature what they were doing internally. Um they were changing people in and out so we had 3 people on the board through them. Great investors though. Really supportive 100% always there for us. Um. Then we had our series a and that was dev diet yulicar out of um strv who led that so crv is a I don’t know sure forty Fifty year old firm. They know how to do business really really? Well they have their philosophies. They stick to them every partner talks the same. And their ability and especially Dave Dev that’s ah just a beautiful human being his ability to be supportive yet very transparent in his communication. He wasn’t nice. He was supportive. And and that support was really based on his desire to see us be successful as a partner and ah that was you know, really a refreshing person to have in the boardroom and then we had ah chamath Palo Hapatus Fund Social Capital come in and lead the series. B.

James Lochrie: And so another first time fund at the time so there was a ah partner switch that happened in there as well and so having these dynamics at that level kind of play out with 2 first time funds and one very mature fund I would say having Charles River ventures in the middle of that sandwich was crucial to our success and devda in particular being crucial to our success and being able to keep the conversations flowing keep everybody on side. Everybody focused on what we wanted to do without the drama ah of uncertainty that happens in first -time funds ah, coming in sent landing on our table so that was really ah a great stretch and then as we got more mature we added strategics like adp the payroll company rbc of royal canadian bank the largest company in canada was an investor and in wave and australian national bank as well as a number of other. Ah. Ah, funds around the world participated in in some of our later financing as well.

Alejandro Cremades: And what did you learn there I mean some big names you know about board dynamics and then also managing effectively aboard.

James Lochrie: Yeah I think that that is something that you know when I look at Kirk. Ah my cofounder he was Ceo of the company. Um, he had to really ramp up in his ability to do that as the Ceo and and my role in that was to support him. As much as I possibly could to manage our board There’s a lot of big personalities on our board and it really came down to just having a mindset of this is our company. This is our company that we’re running that you guys have been invited into that we need your support. And ideas and your ah your feedback whether it’s critical or or not we need that but it really is our company and we’re going to tell you what we want. And then you can give us the feedback instead of you telling us what you want and us providing the feedback I think that was a big shift that happened probably halfway through the company probably into 152016 where I felt like um there was just a lot more. Um we had just more handle on the board just by changing that perspective. And of course adding in other people around the organization to help us manage the board with reporting and communication and and doing things the right way instead of us being first time founders trying to figure it out on the fly so that was also very helpful but you know I think board management once you get to that state.

James Lochrie: You know once you’re in the series C Series D level can become complicated because there are some big personalities that can sit around the table.

Alejandro Cremades: And let’s talk about the acquisition. You know, obviously for you first company first exit and obviously not just any exit. 1 of the largest there in cu 400,000,000 of an exit. You know, quite a quite an outcome so tell us give us an insider you know seat. On on how that you know ah came about.

James Lochrie: Yeah, we were um so it was h and our block that that ended up buying us in an all-cash deal and um, we had been talking to them so for about 8 years we had made that connection up in Canada first and then there was some dalliances with their Us. . arm over the years but nothing ever stuck. We couldn’t figure out how to work together there was there was an opportunity at one point but they chose another provider and all this stuff and that which I believe failed with that provider and then um, we were in market. And we were raising our series e with the idea of that taking us to a public exit and um that we had actually signed the term sheet with an investor I don’t remember who they are and I wouldn’t name them anyways. But we’d actually sign the term sheet and then the offer comes in. And there was this really unusual time that happened in the company where we needed more capital in the company to execute our plans and we also had this offer come in. So. We had this timing where we were like well we could say no to that forty million bucks that we’ve already got a term sheet on. But if the deal falls through we’re in big trouble. We’re we’re going to have to raise capital in a very short period of time.

James Lochrie: And so there was this dance around how we make this happen with h and r block and h and r block was a great partner through that in understanding where we were and what their interests were in us and they ended up taking the risk off the table for us and so they actually. Ah, came in and and made sure that we didn’t have any capital risk should the deal fall through and and then it was just you know it was about dotting the i’s and crossing the t’s at that point and you know there was some back and forth on price and all that stuff and all the terms but it was fairly straightforward I’m not sure Kirk would say the same thing. Ah, but from what but the seat I was sitting in. It seemed to go fairly smoothly with some some limited exceptions.

Alejandro Cremades: What said our long process. How long would would you say it took from beginning to end.

James Lochrie: I I want to say it was the end of March. So about this time in 2019 so about March Twenty Eight thereabouts 2019 and then we closed I believe it was June Twenty Eighth so but three months from from the time we we said yes to the oh what the interest came into the time we closed.

Alejandro Cremades: Wow and 1 of the largest exits in Canada like the son of immigrants. How incredible I mean anything that you did you know when when when everything was said and done anything that you always wanted to do that. You were able to do on. Ah.

James Lochrie: Of course, of course I bought a poker table for for my heads downstairs because I love playing poker especially with with friends in ah in a really comfortable Environment. So I got that all set up. But most importantly, that gave me. Firepower to be able to do what I’m doing now and that was to to continue investing in it with other entrepreneurs on the projects they were working on and that’s where I’ve applied almost all of my capital is into that you know sure I’ve spoiled myself in in little ways here and there but the the most important thing that I do. Is get out of bed and work with entrepreneurs. It’s It’s a passion of mine I Really enjoy it.. It’s something that gives me energy I Love being around them I Love working on the problems with them I Love working with my team and helping entrepreneurs and that. Amount of Capital allowed me to take risks in those areas and that’s where I’ve been spending my time since the exit.

Alejandro Cremades: So in 2016 you decide to move and basically you know you started you know taking a look at as you were saying you know at investing in companies and and 1 thing led to the next and here you are you know, right now with your next company which is a thinner laps. So um.

James Lochrie: Um, yes.

Alejandro Cremades: So basically in ah, in a nutshell so that the people that are listening. You know, really understand what you’re up to nowadays what is thinner Las what are you guys up to.

James Lochrie: We are a very early seed stage investor. We’ll invest in the seed stage as our first check will continue investing through the seed stage and we will will do pro rata on a series. A um. And that’s really where we focus on is helping entrepreneurs who have great ideas and just want a partner to help them build the business through that seed stage. Ah all the way through to series a and beyond and so that’s what we focus on is really just finding those great entrepreneurs who are working on game changing problems at global scale. And trying to find ways where our capacity or capabilities could help augment their success and that’s all we do is focus on the entrepreneur and their success and we take all of our ego out of it because the only thing that matters in the economics of our business is the success of our founders and so that means their personal success. You know with their families. We care about what’s going on in their lives. It means their business success. Are they growing you know I always talk to my entrepreneurs about the j curve of growth that happens in these startups. That’s also the j curve of growth that has to happen in the Ceo and founder team and and if it doesn’t. That’s when bad things happen. So it’s ah about helping them understand that journey while realizing it’s all about them. It’s all about their company. It’s all about their vision. It’s all about their team. It’s got really nothing to do with us other than the fact that we can help and capital is a piece of that.

James Lochrie: And we we think about capital as one of the tools in the toolbox that helps companies grow even though it is the the economic engine of what we do is making these types of investments. It really is only 1 piece of the pie and that’s. Something that I’ve learned through working with great investors over over the years is that it it really does take that extra step. It takes that you know empathy for the founder. It takes that support of the founder and that genuine like truly genuine desire to see them successful and you know it. Been fortunate to be surrounded by entrepreneurs most of my life and it just this comes naturally to me this is where I want to spend my time and so that’s what we do here.

Alejandro Cremades: So You are talking about great ideas and great entrepreneur entrepreneurs and obviously you are all about investing you know on those at a seat stage where both of those 2 things you know are combined and you know essentially they come together now what does a great idea look like. And also what does a great on entrepreneurp look like based on you know that pattern recognition that you know perhaps now you have after seeing so much.

James Lochrie: Yeah that’s that’s a tricky one. It’s ah you know there’s no magic sauce. They’re you know around figuring out. What is the perfect entrepreneur. Typically what we see in our entrepreneurs are like a huge amount of energy like that’s the the first thing. Ah, the second thing is a level of domain expertise around the problem set that they’re solving and a rationale for the reason for them to be the ones to solve it. You know there’s there’s typically a personal story there and then um, when you talk about um when they talk about their business There’s a way that entrepreneurs that I tend to invest in talk about their business and it’s about the future and it’s an opportunistic and optimistic future and instead of talking about the past or what the challenges might be. They tend to skip over those types of things and. And focus on what could be rather than what is or what? what what? the constraints of what could be might be so it’s really about that. Um, optimism. That’s really flowing from them that we recognized as one of the key components of great entrepreneurs. Ah, it’s not obviously not the only thing because people that are delusional like myself can be optimistic too. So um, but that’s kind of the the key thing when it comes to ideas though. It really is about. Are we doing a step change in function all right? So 1 of our companies is a cancer detection company.

James Lochrie: Ah, they’ve been working on this problem for 15 years recently come to market now proves in 24 countries and the step change that they’re bringing to market is it’s a blood test for breast cancer and it’s also one that can detect cancer at the earliest stages. So when you think about breast cancer and mammography and detection today we are leaving out a huge section of the population out of care. These people are taking this test and and creating a differentiated type of care that could happen in cancer detection and. That step level change in technology is what we’re looking for. We’re not looking for incrementalism. We’re looking for that next big leap and we want it to happen at a global scale having companies built in Canada you can have some kind of. Perspective around. We want to win our backyard or we want to be the best in Canada those types of things. Typically we don’t invest in those kinds of companies we look at companies that can help people around the world with their products or service.

Alejandro Cremades: I Love that now it sounds like you guys are pretty good when it comes to risk management and helping your companies you know mitigating with whatever is in front of them and and they’re risking or helping them to the risk the path forward. Right now there is a lot of stuff happening out there in the world. You know like a lot of uncertainty.. The macro environment is pretty rough So What kind of a do device you know can can you give to the people that are tuning in now and that are worried.

James Lochrie: Yeah, you know I think this comes down to what’s happening today is a lot about balance sheet risk right? And how healthy your balance sheet is versus the milestones you need to try and achieve to get to your next stage and over the past five is years excluding last year um there’s just been so much capital in the system. Whether that’s venture dollars venture debt other other types of debt that have kept a lot of companies very comfortable and comfortable in early stage companies isn’t necessarily a good thing and so. When I look at what we’re doing today versus what we were doing previously around balance sheet risk. That’s not that different today versus what we were doing before because when you’re investing in the early stage a lot of times you’re making investments and you’ve got maybe twelve months of runway eighteen months worth of runway somewhere in that ballpark. But the milestone you need to achieve is so significant product market fit or a huge technical challenge that you have to overcome or a regulatory hurdle that you have to meet those big big chunks are are really hard to do in short time periods. So balance sheet management is something that we really focus on in the early stages and. Just managing your balance sheet to that mixed investment milestone. So that you’re not caught short and the only difference today versus what we’ve been doing previously is the expectation is that your your balance sheet needs to last longer than it did before because capital isn’t necessarily as available. So. It’s really just about timing that we think about.

James Lochrie: We’ve been scared of this stuff like from the beginning so you know the the fear that’s hitting the market. The uncertainty that’s hitting the market over the last year is something that we deal with every single day and we’re used to it so it really is just about ensuring you’re doing the right things. At the right time and making the right decisions when it comes to capital risk.

Alejandro Cremades: So obviously you know at this point in the game. You’ve seen a lot. You know, not only as an investor but also as an operator as a founder yourself I guess if I was to put you into a time machine James and I bring you back in time to that moment where you were thinking about taking the leap at 38 years old and you had the opportunity of having a chat with that younger self and being able to give that younger self one piece of advice before launching a business. What would that be and why give me what you know now.

James Lochrie: I you know I knew this question was coming the the 1 thing that I would say that I look back on and say I could have or should have done differently. It was very personal. It was look after yourself in balance with looking after your business. And when I say that I mean all the things from you know I neglected my exercise I neglect neglected my sleep I neglected my um, my nutrition I neglected my friendships I neglected my marriage I neglected my children at’s on top points. Ah, it’s trying to figure out how to create more balance and. That was one of the things as a more mature person now I look at and really structure my day around is making sure that I am the best version of myself every day that I wake up and have those things working for me because when they weren’t working for me into business. It just creates this. Drag on you and and I recognize that now that was probably one of the larger things I struggled with unknowingly during the build out of of the early stages of wave as I just worked my tail off just trying to achieve and neglected everything else and that was 100% the wrong thing to do. Um, and it just wasn’t something I wanted to repeat so that’s the one piece of advice I would give is just to find that balance and it doesn’t have to be equal. You have to give yourself a little bit to make sure that you’re you’re showing up for yourself.

Alejandro Cremades: Wow that is that is very profound James now for the people that are that are listening that will love to reach out and and say hi. What is the best way for them to do so.

James Lochrie: How you can reach me at James at thinner labs dot ca I’m on Twitter James Lockry um that’s probably the best way to reach out.

Alejandro Cremades: Amazing. Well hey James thank you so much for being on the deal maker show. It has been an honor to have you with us today.

James Lochrie: Um I appreciate it their Honors mine. Yeah.

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