Idriss Al Rifai is the co-founder and CEO of Fetchr which is an international express, mail delivery, and logistics services company. The business has raised so far $100 million from top tier investors including New Enterprise Associates (NEA), NGP Capital, Winklevos Capital, and Mobility Ventures to name a few.
In this episode you will learn:
- How he started the business without being able to get a bank account
- The big differences with starting a business in Dubai
- Near business death experiences
- What you do when your $400k funding round falls through 2 days before closing
- Surviving 100 investor rejections to land $100M in funding
- How incredibly big and fast Fetchr has grown in just 2.5 years
- Why he suggests you read some startup horror stories before you start
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About Idriss Al Rifai:
Idriss Al Rifai is an entrepreneur passionate about disrupting the Middle East retail market with technologies and customer-centric services that enable the growth of e-commerce in the region.
Idriss Al Rifai has developed and optimized a last-mile delivery solution specifically for the e-commerce needs and requirements in the Middle East.
In 2012, Idriss Al Rifai founded Fetchr which has evolved to become a full end-to-end logistics solution, backed by technology, for e-commerce companies, regional players, social media sellers as well as SMBs in the MENA region.
In addition to its B2C and standard C2C deliveries powered through its app, Fetchr also recently launched an on-demand delivery service, the first of its kind in the region.
Fetchr is also the first company in MENA to raise $52M in funding to date ($11M Series A and $41M Series B), led by a top tier Silicon Valley VC, New Enterprise Associates.
This opened up the doors for other startups and entrepreneurs to receive funding from outside the region. Idriss Al Rifai goal is to empower all deliveries through technology in emerging markets.
Previously Idriss Al Rifai worked for MarkaVIP, a leading eCommerce player in the MENA region, where he headed the operations and built an in-house logistics department for the company to expedite deliveries.
Prior to this Idriss Al Rifai worked as a consultant at Boston Consulting Group (BCG).
Idriss Al Rifai holds degrees from the Institut d’Etudes Politiques of Paris (Sciences Po) and the University of Chicago’s Booth School of Business.
Idriss Al Rifai is also a Rath and Fulbright scholar and Endeavor entrepreneur.
Connect with Idriss Al Rifai:
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FULL TRANSCRIPTION OF THE INTERVIEW:
Alejandro: Alrighty. Hello everyone, and welcome to the DealMakers show. Today, we have a very exciting founder. I think that we’re going to learn a lot about startups in the Middle East, and then also there will be quite a few exciting stories, near-death experiences for sure. Without further ado, Idriss Al Rifai, welcome to the show.
Idriss Al Rifai: Thanks, Alejandro. Thanks for having me.
Alejandro: Half French and half Iraqi. Tell us about the combo there.
Idriss Al Rifai: My dad is Iraqi. My mom is French. We left Iraq when I was three years old. We went to France, and then we stayed there, and I was raised in France.
Alejandro: Raised in the South of France. Typically, I interview founders that are coming right from consulting, or they’re coming from investment banking or venture capital. Here, we have someone that was a former pro basketball player and then also went to the Special Forces. What a crazy combination. Tell us about these two experiences.
Idriss Al Rifai: I would say a very untraditional background. Yeah, I started in the Ministry of Defense for a couple of years. Then, I went to the Special Forces for three years. I’ve been deployed in 13 countries, mostly across Africa. Then, I joined the personal staff of the Minister of Defense. Did my MBA after that and then went to Dubai. Like you said, I’m a big basketball fan. I was a professional basketball player, but just professional to be like a bench-warmer, as we say. I was sitting all the way at the end of the bench, but I could say I was pro. It was a fun time, but when I realize I could never make it to the NBA or even the EuroLeague, I’m like, “Okay. I have to find something else.”
Alejandro: That probably gave you the team effort mentality, and that combined with the Special Forces, what an incredible combination there. What were you doing in the Special Forces?
Idriss Al Rifai: It’s nothing like in the movies, but it was a lot of intelligence, which is a big word for saying being in the middle of random places and trying to understand what is going on. You have to understand, when you hear about countries or conflict, there is a lot of very different types of information, and you don’t know what’s right and what’s wrong. Therefore, sometimes they do send missions, what we call fact-finding missions to understand what is going on. We go there, 20 bodyguards, and I talk to like ten people a day. Then, I write reports at night, don’t sleep, and eat whatever I can find for a few months. That’s basically what it is. It’s a lot of survival more than anything. Definitely, no comforts. Definitely, being by yourself and make it a success.
Alejandro: Oh, for sure. I’m sure that you probably have been able to learn a lot from that, especially now as a founder because, as a founder, it’s all about survival and all about being able to be with uncertainty.
Idriss Al Rifai: 100%.
Alejandro: What did this experience teach you about dealing with uncertainty?
Idriss Al Rifai: I think the biggest thing that I learned from this type of experience is — in a way, Special Forces, and like a traditional army, which is very hierarchical and everybody knows what they’re supposed to do, Special Forces is a lot more of a patchwork of people. We typically have teams from different countries that have different agendas. They’re not here only for the mission, but they have their own mission inside the mission. That’s one that you have to understand and get people on board. That’s one. Two, I find it interesting because, Ulli, I’m the only officer, and everybody else is not an officer. Obviously, they know a lot more about survival than I do. It’s very much like a startup where the CEO doesn’t know what the head is doing, and he’s trying to surround himself with a team that knows what they’re doing in their field. It’s about leading by empowering; this is what I would say, and this influenced my type of leadership with the guards, too, like letting anyone run with it. The job of the CEO, at the end of the day, is to enable everyone within the organization and find money, and that’s it.
Alejandro: Understood. Then, you did your MBA. Then, after that, you decided to go to Dubai, and then you did some consulting. I really love what consulting gives you, which is very much being able to break big problems into small problems and then tackle those. I’m sure that this experience as a consultant taught you a lot. What were some of the insights that you got from this experience?
Idriss Al Rifai: Very true. Personally, I needed some kind of stamp that this guy is not too weird, and he can be corporate because, obviously, my background was so diverse and so weird. That was one. Two, to go back to your point, I think breaking big problems into small ones is one. What I found that I used the most for my consulting years, in a way, is the story writing. As a founder, you tell a lot of stories to investors, to people you sell, to your first clients, to your first customers, to people who want to leave their job to take a pay cut to join you. It is a lot of selling, I think. So, being able to put everything into a story that is compelling that convinces people, I think it’s very important to get that for a startup.
Alejandro: Let me expand on that. I completely agree with you that it’s all about storytelling. When it comes to storytelling, what would you say are the key ingredients that make a story compelling?
Idriss Al Rifai: Key ingredients. There is quite a lot of emotional intelligence in it. So, basically, the ability to see the situations not through your own eyes but through the eyes of the people you’re talking to. I think that’s very important. There is quite a lot that needs — people get drawn a little bit by passion. Maybe I’m wrong, but that’s just my take. I think passion draws passion. I think that people get convinced if you see passion. I think the passion that you can convey throughout the message, which is both the combination of excitement but also being very structured. Now, you break down what your startup is trying to do is very important when you try to pursue people.
Alejandro: Got it. Then, after consulting, you decided to join the world of startups, and that was with Marka. How did this happen?
Idriss Al Rifai: That was when I was a consultant. I liked it, but I didn’t love it. It was very interesting, to say the least. It was okay. I knew I needed it. It’s the type of medicine that you need to have because you know you need that. When you play sports, it’s like the time you go to the gym. Nobody loves it, but you know it’s going to make you a better player. That was a bit like this. I knew I needed it to polish a lot of my skills. I was quite raw. But I really wanted to join the startup world. When I was doing my MBA, I met a couple of entrepreneurs. I did a couple of classes. I remember my best classes were entrepreneur selling, entrepreneurship strategy. Some of these classes were steered quite a lot inside me, so I knew this was what I wanted, and I was just waiting for the next right opportunity. Back then, I started talking to a VC from Hummingbird Ventures, a great guy, Barend. We started literally bouncing off ideas on what should be the next startup. He told me, “There is a startup that we funded. A great guy. They’re looking for a COO. Would you like to join?” I’m like, “Actually, you know, why not.” Looking back at it, honestly, for all the people that are listening that want to jump, it’s just my opinion, but I think it’s great to start the entrepreneurship path by joining a scale-up because, at least for me and maybe because I’m French, or maybe it’s just me, but I felt like startups were so well-oiled like a machine, and they knew what they were doing, and they were going in the right direction, and it was working because they were stronger or faster. That’s not the case. Startups are ***** inside. It’s very difficult. What is working one day will not work the second day. Nobody understands. I did not understand hypergrowth. Like, 40% monthly growth like companies that literally triple in size in four or five months. It’s mind-numbing to see and to understand the fact that startups do not have everything figured out. I felt for me, it broke the myth, and I needed this to actually jump on my own, looking back at it, because I realized that startups are not perfect, and therefore, I’m okay to do something imperfect.
Alejandro: Got it. Now, you got this experience, and you were with Marka. It basically gave you the insights into what hypergrowth looks like, how to approach it, and so forth. Then, there was probably a time when you said, “Now I think I’ve got this. Now is my chance to shine, and here’s the problem that I’m going to be tackling. What was that like?
Idriss Al Rifai: Honestly, it was not that positive. It’s not like I work one day, and I’m like, this is my chance. Honestly, I started this company because I thought that nobody listened to me. I was one of the biggest clients of [11:53]. I’m not going to say names, but basically, the regional [11:56] that we have in the Middle East, and they were just not even listening. It was like they didn’t care. I could not walk away because they were the only game in town. So, I was in a position where “I’m being killed by a business.” Somebody was supposed to help me, and that company does not even care that it’s killing me because he knows I don’t have another option. I found out it was completely unfair. I think this was the unfairness that drove me to start. I’m like, “Okay. You think nobody’s going to actually hurt you? Let me see what I can do.” Literally, I started this because I was ***** off on the fact that there were no solutions for anyone, and nobody was building one. So, I started it.
Alejandro: What was that day where you said, “Okay. I’ve got to take being so ***** off internally, and protect this externally, and do something about it. What happened?
Idriss Al Rifai: First, you’re an entrepreneur, Alejandro. So, I think the good thing about entrepreneurs is that they’re a little bit cuckoo. They’re really crazy. They think they can disrupt industries even though what they have originally is not disruptive. Let me come back to this. I think there are a lot of self-fulfilling prophecies that go into building a startup. It’s like you do understand the shortcomings of the market. You do understand the competition, so you have an edge here, but you have quite a lot of people who have the same knowledge. But it’s your willingness to change things, that self-fulfill itself, that makes you grow. Looking back at it, if I had somebody pitch to me saying, “You’re going to disrupt giants, multi-billion-dollar businesses that are already present in 150 countries, I would have said, “You’re crazy, man. You’re nice, but you’re crazy.” But I think you need this to be able to get started on a business.
Alejandro: Yeah. Once you said, “Okay. I’m going to go about this. I’m going to do something about it.” How did you go about getting that founding team, the people on board, and the execution of this?
Idriss Al Rifai: There are two things that describe the beginning are people and money. On the money side, I put all my money in, family’s money, friend’s money. It’s like it’s a crazy bet, but at the end of the day, they’re following. I, personally, think that it put a lot of pressure on me, but that’s another problem. That got sorted for a few months. It’s funny how the type of skill set changes. Obviously, the type of people that we’re recruiting right now are people we’ll put in early on. We wanted the perfect Swiss knife. The guy works 18 hours a day, who can be marketing in the morning, customer service in the afternoon, and deliver packages in the evening. Obviously, it’s completely different after that, but you need people that are as driven as you, almost like who are possessed with the business. I think I would trade 100% early-stage skillsets for passion. You need somebody who is passionate first, and then you’ll see if it rounds up.That’s the whole thing about like the book Good to Great, and that kind of stuff. There are a couple of things that are not 100% correct, but what I love about it is the fact that you do not ask what you’re going to do. You just get on the bus, like that kind of stuff. I think if you’re the driver of the bus, you do not care how the people are going to work together. You just need to regroup people that are extremely motivated that are willing to go to work with you no matter what it takes.
Alejandro: Yep, and I remember that book, too. As Jim Collins says in the book, it’s all about having the right people seated on the right seats of the bus, and eventually, if that’s the case, you will find your direction toward success. I love that.
Idriss Al Rifai: Yep. I think I learned something similar is like when you’re asked to be on a rocket ship, you don’t ask which seat.
Alejandro: I love it! It totally makes sense. Idriss, in your case, what ended up being the business model, so the people that are listening get it?
Idriss Al Rifai: If you look at last money in the emerging markets to make it very simple, there are two key problems. It’s not like in the West. There are two things that you need to understand. 1) There is no address. As crazy as it seems, whether you’re talking about Dubai, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, Egypt, there is literally no address. The way it works when you buy something online is that you literally describe your address in the address form based on the landmark. You say, 711 on this area, second street on the right, third house on the left. This is how things are being delivered. Then you put your phone number, and the driver calls you. That’s one: lack of address. 2) Cash on delivery. Eighty percent of transactions are cash on delivery. You should look at juniors fighting for IPO. You can see that it’s even higher in most of the countries: 90 to 92%. But if you look at emerging market as a whole, you’re talking about 90% emerging market. So, that’s two. 3) You’re talking about emerging markets where 80 or 90% of transactions happen on smartphones. Only 10 to 20% are on the desktop. So you have this landscape. That’s what you have. Then you have the DHL, FedEx. Again, I’m not blaming them. It’s really not my game. But you have the DHL and the FedEx of this world that at check-out ask for delivery address even though there is no address for four billion people in this world. We felt that there was something that was disconnected from reality, so instead of that, we’re like, “I don’t care about your address. Why do we care about addresses, while we or whoever just ask for GPS? We do not care about where you live. The only thing we care about is where you’re going to be when you want your package delivered. Obviously, it creates a lot of difficulties on the backend, making sure that the routing position is correct and that you can actually find the customers. But this is my job. This is not the job of the customer. My job as a delivery company is not to pin down the customer for six hours to make sure that I can deliver his package so we can get the COD, cash on delivery delivered. I think the equation was wrongly stated. Instead of that, we wanted to put the customer back into the driver’s seat. We’ll find you. Just share your GPS. Then, the whole technology stack allows for that, and therefore we can find the customers a lot more than what FedEx and the DHLs of this world can. Therefore, we serve eCommerce better. The non-delivery rate, which can be as high as 25% in some of the markets, so think about it. Twenty-five percent of the transactions do not happen because I cannot find the customers, which is crazy. But for us, it’s about four to five times lower in some of the markets. Basically, we enable eCommerce through [19:19]. That’s what we do.
Alejandro: In your case, you also didn’t find a bank account. What happened there?
Idriss Al Rifai: That’s for the company. Right?
Alejandro: For the company. In your case, talking about not being able to find stuff, you couldn’t find a bank account because here in the U.S. or everyone who is tuning in from maybe San Francisco, or New York, or wherever you are, things are done a bit different. In your case, tell us about the experience with the bank account. What happened there, Idriss?
Idriss Al Rifai: Again, I’m not blaming. There are quite a lot of things that banks could be doing, especially in the business they’re sitting on tons of liquid assets. But that’s another story. From a bank perspective, I do understand, because think about it. You have one guy that comes to your office one day, like this entrepreneur and says, “I want to open a bank account, and every day, I’m going to bring a couple of hundred thousand dollars in cash, and I’m going to bring that cash to different accounts. I’m going to wire that domestically and internationally.” I do understand how a bank could be about this. But the reality is, this shows how disconnected they are with reality. I went to six banks. I got six noes. You have to understand that I started the business already without a bank account. So when clients wanted to pay us, I had to give them my own personal bank account. Think about how I look now. Just stuff like opening a bank account was very difficult. Then I managed through a connection of mine to trust me that I wasn’t doing anything shady. Then we had two bank accounts.
Alejandro: Just like with rents. Tell us about the rents. What’s going on with the rents?
Idriss Al Rifai: Yeah, rents. Again, one of the things that are very interesting in the Mid-East, and especially in Dubai, is that you have to pay your rent upfront for the full year. So, it hurts quite a lot of your cash flow, so think about it. You just entered the office, and then you have your first $200,000 in the bank for pre-seed funding. Then you realize that 30% is gone, just based on your rent. Nothing fancy, just an office, and there are some rules as to how small your office can be, and 30% of your pre-seed funding is gone based on the rent. It’s crazy, but you need to have that discussion with your investors and tell them this is how it works. It goes even like I was telling you earlier, where one of the crazy things, as well, is that even when you grow the business, it makes no sense. For example, we’re in the Free Zone in Dubai. The number of visas — obviously, you need a visa to work. This is how the Mid-East works. If you do not have a visa, you cannot be in the Middle East, let alone work. First, you get visas to be able to grow. We got refused. A couple of our visas got turned down. Then I went to the Free Zone and said, “Why are you turning it down?” They told me, “The number of visas that you can have is related to how big your office space is.” I’m like, “Just think about my business. My business is in careers. I’ve got people in the cars delivering stuff.” The guy understood, but he could not bend the rules. We literally had to increase the size of the office for no reason other than getting visas.
Idriss Al Rifai: As you know, nothing is black and white. I’m not saying Dubai’s the worst place to start a business because it’s not. There are just a couple of things that aren’t right. But this thing makes no sense. You just realize, “How can this make sense?” But that’s how it is.
Alejandro: Perhaps it was something that was applied to other businesses that were not necessarily hypergrowth or in your segment. I know that on the fundraising, it was a bit shaky for you guys, and I know that, as you were saying, on the seed round, you got the friends and family, so I’m sure the holiday dinners turned a bit to the valuation of the business. But on the Series A, that’s when you guys finally open it up to sophisticated folks, and I know that you had quite an interesting story there that happened with a VC the last minute. Tell us what happened.
Idriss Al Rifai: Again, the VC ecosystem in Dubai is still in its early stage and compared to when I started the business like seven years ago, there has been a lot of change. What happened seven years ago almost killed us literally. I remember having discussions with my co-founder and my people at the time. We were crying. What happened is we did a 1.2 million dollar raise for a seed, and we got about half of it but already hit the bank. Actually, it was already spent. Then, we had this VC from Dubai that came on board, and I said, “You seem interested, but we need to re-negotiate all the terms.” Obviously, not in my favor; it goes without saying. So lowered our pre-valuation, different types of rights, class of shares, all of it. Anyway, we changed the whole agreement, the whole term sheets, everything. Then two days before the wiring, they decided to pull out. 1) I didn’t have that money. 2) The whole round crumbled, so all their 400k, they were syndicated around that lead investor do not count on them, and obviously, they all fell apart 100%. But then, you go back to your earlier investor and say, “By the way. Let’s go back to the earlier terms,” which is a very tough conversation to have, if not impossible. It’s like the triple effect. What happened is that I had to go back to France. I had to ask for a loan which I got. It was a crazy story, and by the way, just to get the loan. It was my second loan back in France. I put that back into the business, and now we could survive two more months.
Idriss Al Rifai: It was close to Christmas, and I was stressed. We didn’t have enough money to pay till the end of the month. It was the second month in a row. I remember my mom actually put her money in. She worked all her life and didn’t save a lot, so she put 60% of her savings. Again, do not do that at all. But she put 60% of her savings, which was like 45,000 euros, into the business so I could survive one more month. As of today, it’s still one of my biggest regrets because I think even though — now, she made 12x. It’s good. But because the result is good, it doesn’t mean that it was the right decision. It’s called survival buyers. It was the wrong decision to take her money, and I can’t even think about what would have happened if I had lost it. So, we survived another month, and then NEA came aboard with the Series A. I’m grateful to NEA. They were Scott and all these guys. They just believed in me, believed in the business. They were like, “Yeah. You’re going to figure it out.”
Alejandro: How do you get, for example, like a VC that is in the U.S., NEA, Top Tier VC here, and very, very respected. How do you come, let’s say, from abroad, from a completely unknown market to them because perhaps they didn’t invest in it? Maybe they were up-to-speed. They researched it and all that good stuff. It was the first investment. How do you really get them to trust you and to build that type of relationship to say, “You know what? We’ll make our first investment.”
Idriss Al Rifai: First, this is extremely difficult. Second, I’ve been lucky. Let’s put the facts, and then let’s put 80% of luck that came into this because let’s not pretend everything is because of hard work. But it starts with this. I went to the Valley literally in an accelerator program. I went there and met somebody who became my co-founder. Her name is Joy. Then, we pitched NEA together. It was, never invest [28:25]. Like any other investor, let’s not blame them. They have so many opportunities like 100 meters from where they are, so why would they invest in a 17-hour flight, especially in a Series A funding. But, at the end of the day, we hit it off. I hit it off with the whole partnership. I hit it off with Scott and a couple of partners. They actually increased the maximum amount that they could invest in what they call Risky Investments. They did it; they took the lead. Since then, they’ve been an incredible helper. They’ve been helping me. They structured my Series A. They led my Series B. They led my convertible notes. They’ve been with me since we crossed paths. Then, my second mistake was I thought that having NEA would make everything easy. Big mistake. The fact that I got NEA does not mean that I was not rejected a hundred times from all the VCs. All the [29:30] VC’s rejected me, including the U.S., Europe, and in the Middle East. So, the fact that we got a couple of investors that came in shows it’s a 1:10 ratio. Everybody’s impressed by the people I brought on board, but everybody should see the 90% of the others that refused.
Alejandro: I hear you. Here, in this case, you guys raised close to 100 million, and you guys are on a really incredible path. How big is the business for the people who are listening to get a sense of the size?
Idriss Al Rifai: We grew 105 times in the past two-and-a-half years. We’re close to 5,000 employees, 4,700, I think the last count. We did close to a billion-dollar GNV, slightly higher last year.
Alejandro: That’s amazing. One of the questions that I typically ask is, let’s say you go to sleep tonight, Idriss, and you wake up in five years; so, it’s been a long snooze.
Idriss Al Rifai: I can’t wait.
Alejandro: Then, all of a sudden, in five years, when you wake up, you wake up in a world where the vision of Fetchr is completely realized. What does that world look like?
Idriss Al Rifai: It’s a world where addresses are irrelevant.
Alejandro: Okay. Would you mind expanding on that?
Idriss Al Rifai: Yeah. Just think about it. For all the people in the Valley or in the U.S., you have to understand that four billion people do not have addresses. They buy something online, and the first thing they have to fill out is the address. It’s just not made for that, literally. It’s like you’re trying to buy shoes, and you can only buy one shoe. It just doesn’t make sense. It doesn’t fit the reality of the world. I’m trying to make the requirement for an address for eCommerce delivery not only unnecessary but irrelevant, thereby solving the no-address problem and the mobility issue. Because even in the West, why can’t you receive a package if you’re at Starbucks for two hours, or anyplace? Why do the logistic companies have to go with a physical address that does not move while we will find you wherever you are. I think there is something fundamentally wrong about it, and I think probably our kids or the kids of our kids will smile at the idea that a package has to be delivered to an address rather than to where they are now because this is where I want it.
Alejandro: I hear you. Absolutely. Now, you’ve been at it for quite a while. You guys started in 2012, so a lot of stories, a lot of ups and downs, a lot of successes, a lot of, also, breakdowns that led to breakthroughs as we’ve covered. If you had the opportunity to go back in time, Idriss, and have a chat with your younger self, with that younger Idriss that was about to make the jump from that Marka startup where you were working, to build your own. If you had that chance to have that conversation and give that younger Idriss one piece of advice before launching a business, what would that be, and why knowing what you know now?
Idriss Al Rifai: Man! I would have a serious discussion about whether you should start it. That’s first. It takes the toll. Maybe because impassionate or maybe because I’m who I am. When I’m in something, I’m 100% in it. I remember the days when I was just tired of people seeing me as the company and do not even see me as a person. Like 95% of the people you meet, they do not meet you; they meet the CEO of Fetchr. It’s like how you started disappearing, and how everything gets absorbed in your startup. You can always see the good side of it, and often, it’s depicted as such like you need to be passionate, blah, blah, blah. Even the words of Elon Musk, the guys work 17 hours a day, seven days a week. At the end of the day, you have no other life than this. Are you really ready for this? Are you ready to put everything at stake? Are you ready to fail because most likely, you are going to fail? There are studies about this that if you look at probability and different incomes and all of this, probably you’ll make more money if you stay in consulting or definitely if you stay in banking. Do not go into a startup if you think what’s driving you is just that you want to become like a millionaire. It just makes no sense. I think we build so much of a story around entrepreneurship because of movies, and we only want to know about the guys that have been successful that we tend to forget the hundreds of people who have not been successful. Or the guys that have been successful now, but have failed so many times. If I had to give advice to myself, I would say, do read some horror stories because this is the most likely scenario.
Alejandro: I love it. Idriss, for the folks that are listening, what is the best way for them to reach out and say hi?
Idriss Al Rifai: You can reach me through Twitter. I’m @idriss_alrifai at Twitter. You can find me otherwise on Fetchr. There is my email address.
Alejandro: Amazing. Idriss, thank you so much for being on the DealMaker’s show today.
Idriss Al Rifai: Thanks a lot, Alejandro. It’s a pleasure.
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