Greg Mulholland On Raising $75 Million To Build An AI And informatics Platform For Creating Cost-Efficient And Performance-Oriented Materials

Few stories in the world of technology and entrepreneurship demonstrate resilience, constantly reinventing technology and lessons learned from hard-fought battles better than that of Greg Mulholland, founder of Citrine Informatics.

Greg’s story is a valuable resource for entrepreneurs facing similar challenges in building a lasting company in an old-line industry like chemicals and materials. Citrine has attracted funding from top-tier investors like DRIVE Catalyst, Innovation Endeavors, DCVC (Data Collective), and Universal Materials Incubator.

In this episode, you will learn:

• Greg Mulholland’s journey reflects the power of blending technical expertise with business acumen to drive sustainable innovation in materials science.
• Citrine Informatics evolved from a consulting-based firm to a SaaS platform, enabling clients to use AI and data science for materials development.
• The chemicals and materials industry’s slow digital adoption posed challenges, but Citrine built trust through early consulting, leading to scalable solutions.
• Greg emphasizes the importance of trust in investor relationships after narrowly avoiding a catastrophic deal due to altered terms post-agreement.
• Greg’s vision for Citrine focuses on leveraging custom-tailored materials to enhance sustainability and performance across industries.
• COVID-19 forced Citrine to downsize by 40%-50%, teaching Greg the importance of lean hiring and maintaining efficiency.
• Greg’s focus on continuous learning, guided by mentors and advisors, positions Citrine for future growth and industry leadership.

 

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About Greg Mulholland:

Greg Mulholland is the CEO and co-founder of Citrine Informatics and is a recognized leader in the use of digital tools and digitization practices in the development of next-generation materials and chemicals products and the creation of next-generation business models in the industry.

Greg has over a dozen years of experience in the chemicals, materials, and software industries and has led functions across nearly every part of the business, including strategy, finance, marketing, product, and industry leadership.

At Citrine, he has built a diverse, world-class leadership team that has defined the Materials and Chemicals Informatics industry globally.

Under his leadership, Citrine has been recognized as a WEF Technology Pioneer, a member of the Cleantech 100, the World Materials Forum Startup of the Year, and CB Insights AI 100 in 2017 and 2020.

Greg holds a BS in Electrical Engineering and a BS in Computer Engineering from NC State University, an MPhil in Materials Science from Cambridge University, and an MBA from Stanford University.

Connect with Greg Mulholland:

• LinkedIn
• TheOrg
• Crunchbase
• ContactOut

Read the Full Transcription of the Interview:

Alejandro Cremades: All righty. Hello, everyone, and welcome to the DealMakers show. So today we have a founder. you know It’s going to be quite an exciting conversation. We’re going to be talking about all about having an impact you know with the company, thinking about reinventing constantly the technology, also thinking about the you know staffing, how to go about that, you know how to navigate the different cycles, especially what happened you know to them you know during COVID.

Alejandro Cremades: as well as productizing. you know How to think about productizing when you’re thinking or you’re starting more in a way that perhaps is not the scalable way, but it gets you into different paths. and Lastly, we’re going to be talking about funding, fundraising, and some of the events that they run across, especially with bad actors that put them in a tough situation, you know negotiating you know terms. you know Already after having signed a term sheet and more you know when they were in diligence, but again, you know building, scaling, financing, and all of that good stuff. so Without further ado, let’s welcome our guest today, Greg Mulohang. Welcome to the show.

Greg Mulholland: Thank you all. ho It’s a pleasure to be here.

Alejandro Cremades: so Originally born in Kentucky, but you moved quite a little bit you know with the family. so um How was life growing up?

Greg Mulholland: I had a great life growing up. I came from a pretty technical family. My my dad ah ran chemical plants, ah making vegetable oil of all things ah for for a good chunk of his career. And my mom was an industrial engineer who who turned into a a technology teacher. And so I was surrounded by this understanding of heavy industry, but also understanding you know kind of what the next generation technology looks like ah very early on and and came to love both of those things, which is what led me ah to the chemicals industry.

Greg Mulholland: over over many, many years.

Alejandro Cremades: And I mean, computers too. you know I’m sure that they having your mother there you know what ah was a big influence.

Greg Mulholland: It was. you know From her, I learned a great level of curiosity around ah digital technology. and And that led me to ah head to, I went to North Carolina State for for undergrad and studied computer engineering and really found myself in a position where I was i was excited about computer architecture.

Greg Mulholland: I wanted to learn how to design processors and and and actually did learn how to design processors. But my big challenge there was I didn’t love it. I really wanted to be down more in the fundamental science. And so i I moved into transistor theory, moved into transistor design, and then realized that was just a material science problem. So started in the materials industry and and actually went and got a graduate degree in materials. And so it was a a lucky combination.

Greg Mulholland: Being able to learn physics and chemistry but also with that computer science and computer engineering grounding that allowed me to to do what I do today Yeah, so I was I was lucky I was I was studying at North Carolina State and ah Was about to graduate and I had applied for the the Gates Cambridge scholarship and That’s a story for another day But had gotten pretty far along in the process and had an opportunity to meet a professor at Cambridge that I was really excited about working with

Alejandro Cremades: And how do you find yourself in Cambridge, all of a sudden?

Greg Mulholland: ah didn’t end up winning the scholarship, but ah was at that point really emotionally committed to being there and so, ah because I had the opportunity to go I took it and ah really it was a was unbelievable academic community, but it also was a group of people that was similarly curious. It was a ah really special place to be to learn material science and to think about how data analytics could play a ah role in that space. and And believing at the time, I mean, now it’s it’s sort of common sense, but at the time that that materials informatics or or using data in materials was going to be a very um important technology.

Alejandro Cremades: So then ultimately, you know, you come back to the U.S. and then essentially you went into a same semiconductor company. So why did you chose that path?

Greg Mulholland: Yeah, you know i was I believed at the time and still do to a great degree that the the sustainable future of the planet and frankly our ability to support you know a growing population of middle class required electricity and ah electricity efficiently delivered. That was really kind of what was very important to me. And so i hadd written I did my master’s and was working on solar cells and then I came back and worked in power electronics.

Greg Mulholland: And so specifically, I was looking at um you know how do we make more efficient power devices, like you know the power bricks on your computer. You notice they’ve gotten smaller. That’s the material I was making, was the material that enables the power brick on your computer to get smaller. um It also is notably more efficient, wastes less power.

Greg Mulholland: And so it was a passion for me. It was it was this idea that we could make a change in the world. um And it was a huge technology challenge, but that made it all the more fun. You know, it’s it’s not ah we’re we’re not doing easy things. We want to do hard things because they’re interesting.

Alejandro Cremades: So why pausing the professional career and going back to studying?

Greg Mulholland: Yeah, you know, at that at that time, I was at this relatively small company. um They were in the 20s and 30s while I was there. um I i was became the senior most person without an MBA or a PhD. So the writing was on the wall for me that I kind of ah probably hit the end of my time there. And I also realized you know I wanted to learn the business side of things. I learned the technology, um but I hadn’t fully understood what it meant to take a technology to market. And so I applied to a few different programs, but so but ended up at Stanford for my MBA. um And you know it was it was ah being an engineer.

Greg Mulholland: Going into ah an MBA program is a super interesting thing because, ah you know, there are engineers there, but it’s certainly not the majority. And so learning to learning business culture, learning business language, you know, the math skills were never a problem, but a lot of the other stuff I had never seen before. And so.

Greg Mulholland: I was able to open my mind. I was also able to meet a really important colleague. um I met a guy who was actually, even before we started, ah his name is Dr. Bryce Meredith. He had finished his PhD in machine learning for material science, and then was at Stanford to ah to get his MBA.

Greg Mulholland: And we had this we had this immediate connection. you know i I was ah kind of the guy with the industrial problem, and he was the guy with the academic solution. And and when we sort of figured that if we could push the problem and the solution together and make the meat in the middle, that we could have something really special. And so the summer between our two years of business school, this is in 2013, we actually built a machine learning system. And we worked with a group at University of California, Santa Barbara. we They had a bunch of data about a certain class of materials known as thermoelectrics. And we were able to use these machine learning approaches to invent an entirely new class of thermoelectrics. And it worked. It worked experimentally.

Greg Mulholland: And so at that point, first of all, nobody publishes science papers out of business school. That was kind of fun. But we also knew that we had a technology here that was really revolutionary and and could bring a lot of new thinking to an industry that that was really able to benefit from new thinking.

Alejandro Cremades: so then So then what happened next?

Greg Mulholland: So we we because we were in the Stanford ecosystem, um we were relatively quickly able to raise money. We had a ah couple professors that we’d worked with closely who knew us and knew our business um and knew what we were trying to do. And so we we raised ah an initial note of about a million dollars. At the time, that felt like a lot, though. ah in the In the history of the company, certainly only a starting point. um But it gave us the the space and time to to further develop the company and develop the idea.

Greg Mulholland: And so in 2014, we went full time, then we graduated and ah started to hire our first few folks. And as we did that, um we realized we needed to take this product into market in a pretty weird way. um you know we We had sort of been surrounded by people doing the lean startup method or some you know related idea of we’re going to take something in the market and get the market to tell us what we want.

Greg Mulholland: In our case, we were going into the materials and chemicals industry, which is not known for being particularly digital. It’s not known for being ah particularly able to adopt new technologies, at least not of the digital variety. And so we had to basically, and we refuse to call it this at the time, but basically formed a consulting firm.

Greg Mulholland: we ah We had people that would deliver our software, that we would use the software on their behalf, and then we would help them invent new sustainable high-performance materials and chemicals. They’d own the IP, we’d own the software, but we still had to do a lot of the digital work. And for the next five years, that was our growing business. We were essentially essentially a consultancy, which is not what any of us wanted to be, especially our investors, but it’s what which’s what the market needed at the time.

Greg Mulholland: um and that was a

Alejandro Cremades: So how do you go how do you go from from from the consulting you know aspect to all of a sudden than productizing the operation and making it scalable?

Greg Mulholland: Yeah, go ahead.

Greg Mulholland: Yeah, you know, it was it was really We didn’t really want to. I mean, it was always the vision, but there are lots of visions where you realize the pain to get to the vision is is just so high that you don’t even want to go there. um and And that’s where we kind of had gotten to. We had realized that um the consulting model worked. We knew we wanted to move to software, but we couldn’t do it until we had several of our customers approach us and say, we cannot do business with you anymore.

Greg Mulholland: And the reason we can’t do business with you anymore is that we are one of the largest companies on planet earth, and you have 17 people on your team. and so you’ll never service us. It’s just physically impossible unless you have a scalable software platform, in which case we are interested. And so we heard this from a few different sort of mega companies and we realized that it was both a more scalable model and one that we could execute on because the market had changed. Now these companies were starting to think at least a little little bit digitally, never perfectly, but a little bit.

Alejandro Cremades: So for the people that are listening to to get it, what ended up being the business model of Citroen? How do you guys make money?

Greg Mulholland: Yeah, so we’re a little bit unique. um the The world of materials and chemicals informatics, often called materials informatics, um using data science to invent new materials and refine them, um there’ve been a lot of companies that have started and died over the years. um Most of them have tried to use a royalty model, where if you invent something using our platform, we get 2% of gross sales for several years or something.

Greg Mulholland: Citrine has never operated that way. And there’s a lot of reasons for that, but we offer a SaaS platform that companies use to invent billion-dollar materials, and we just get software fees. That might seem crazy, but it’s it’s how we ensure that our customers are some of the happiest customers in the world. And then, of course, if they need help, we have a professional services team. But we are at our core, the SAP or the sales force of the materials development process. Your data lives with us, you use our AI, and you invent your new thing.

Alejandro Cremades: So then in this case I mean you were alluding to earlier you know on the capital raise I mean you guys have raised a quite a bit of money. How much capital have you guys raised to date and what has been the experience of going through the different cycles.

Greg Mulholland: Yeah, we’ve raised just shy of $75 million dollars in the history of the company. um And we are it’s it’s it’s been super interesting. I mean, I’m sure all your listeners know that just as a venture community, ah we have gone through many different phases since 2014 and 2015. We’ve had moments where things looked like they were taking off. We were seeing companies get funded you know just with incredible, incredible volumes of cash. um And then we’ve gone through periods where things have been have been tougher.

Greg Mulholland: I think we have sort of gotten lucky, um and and i I say this only in hindsight, um that when things were really, really hot, we raised pretty modestly. um And it was partly because people didn’t understand the industry and partly because I think the the ah market is something that people take time to understand overall.

Greg Mulholland: um But it also means that as as things have softened a little bit in in recent years, we’ve been able to continue to maintain our valuation and and be in a position where um you know we we have a sustainable business on our hands. And that’s maybe the most important thing to me is you know we’ve had venture capitalists push us, especially before they invest, um push us to really go big and make a big investment. And it’s either you know go big or go home.

Greg Mulholland: And that’s that doesn’t really work in the chemicals industry because you’re gonna end up going home. you You have to be modest and and be careful about what you what you do in an old line industry like chemistry. um And so we’ve actually been very diligent about growing ourselves and and not, frankly, running ourselves out of capital as we’re learning the market, growing the market, and becoming the leader of the market.

Alejandro Cremades: so then So then I know that there was quite a a bit of experiences there that were not as easy with investors. I know that there was one in particular where it was all the way to the to the wire and with say you know bad actors there you know when it comes to agreeing to terms, renegotiating terms later on, indeligence, putting you guys against the um the the the wall you know really when it comes to a runway and options. So what happened there with you guys?

Greg Mulholland: Yeah, I mean, you know, we’ve had and it’s funny because in general I’ve had very positive experiences with investors but I’ve worked with enough of them now that you’re always going to have some tough ones. um And we did have and ah a case where an investor was a um offered us a term sheet, um and it was very explicit about each of the key terms as as many of your listeners will know these things aren’t hard to read.

Greg Mulholland: um And when we got the um the ah the formal docs back, and I make it a point to read at the docs myself, um we got our counsel to do it too, but I’m i’m always pretty pretty careful, we noticed that some of the definitions had changed. And the definitions changed and changed in such a way that we would be um They would have worked really against us. They would have dramatically decreased our valuation in ah in a future state um when this person or when this when this firm would have had an option to invest further in the company. And and that actually probably would have ceded control into their hands. And it was difficult because this was this was in a period where the company was running low on cash.

Greg Mulholland: um we needed to be um in a yeah in a particularly ah We need to be particularly careful. um and Fortunately, our our existing investors at the time ah were able to rally around and help us so we could step away from this this relationship because it was one where, you know I think think in hindsight, um I would have I should have and and now do get to know investors better ah before I expect accept terms from them because you know these are long-term relationships. They need to be built in trust. And and I don’t know what happened on their side. i don’t Maybe it was done all in good faith, but it had a very bad faith effect on me. And I want to make sure that I can always look someone in the eye and know that they are not going to try to pull anything um intentionally or unintentionally. And I’m very lucky that my my current investors are that way.

Alejandro Cremades: So how are you able to ah go back to the investors to be able to turn things around and not to find yourself in a situation of catastrophe?

Greg Mulholland: Yeah. i mean you know our our What I would say is is to any founders that are listening, you know investors are your best friends and your worst enemies a lot of times. right you know They’re always pushing you to be bigger and better, um but they’re also extremely um ah you know that they have their own They have their own expectations and desires as well. um In this particular case, I developed a very strong trust relationship with a couple of our largest investors, and I was able to go to them and be very transparent. It was not a time for me to play games on the back of other other games. It was a time for me to say,

Greg Mulholland: This is the situation we’re in. This is what I fear will happen. And let’s come to let’s come to a plan together. And so that’s what we did. And they were actually able to, they had reserves and they were able to put together a small and modest, um but but reasonable round for us that was able to bridge us to the next phase of the company. And I’m i’m grateful for for their support during that and and during many other times.

Alejandro Cremades: So how do you how do you go about really finding those investors that ultimately are going to be there, that they’re going to have your back, that are going to be supportive during those times? you know what What have you learned about filtering investors that are going to be there for the right reasons?

Greg Mulholland: Yeah, you know, I think ah obviously, maybe maybe not obviously, ah the first conversation I have with an investor is always really revealing. um Did they look at the materials I sent ahead of time? Are their questions well-reasoned and are they clear or are they just the same questions they ask to everybody else?

Greg Mulholland: um are they ah Do they have a perspective on the industry, on our industry, um that is consistent with my own? And do they want to build the kind of company I want to build? um There are lots of companies and investors that would push us push us to go you know work and make chemical weapons. you know that That’s a thing that people do um and is a real risk with AI. We will not do that. That is off limits for us in every way. um But then the next piece is key. Always do reference checks.

Greg Mulholland: I don’t hire an employee without doing reference checks. i don’t I don’t bring on an investor without doing reference checks. And especially for ones that will have some sort of control position in the company, I need to have an understanding of not just Not just what went well, don’t don’t just give me your best portfolio company CEO. Give me one that you went through some struggles with because it’s it’s really in those moments when things are tough that people show their true colors. And so ah I would say i’m like I don’t have any investors around my table that I’m unhappy with, um but I have a couple in particular that have been ah both personal and professional supports to me ah in really big ways. And I know that I can have straightforward conversations with about what’s best for the company and and best for their investment.

Alejandro Cremades: So let’s talk about now you know continuing in the um path of talking about people here. and I know that during COVID there were some bumpy times ah for you guys. what What happened there and how did you mitigate um some of those same hurdles?

Greg Mulholland: Yeah, so so you know we we were entering a period, you know we went through this transition that we’re talking about to to being a software company in 2018 and into 2019. And we were getting a lot of positive signal for the market and thought we were about to grow very quickly. And we hired effectively to that level. We we were our largest we’ve ever been at the end of 2019, early 2020.

Greg Mulholland: And of course, I think we all know what the early part of March, 2020 looked like. It was ah an economic disaster. And the chemicals industry really felt it badly, mostly because you can’t make chemicals without being together in person. And so a lot of these companies virtually shut down. I mean, they were still operating, but it was they were not investing in anything. And so we had to cut the team by nearly 50% at that time. It was maybe 40% or so. i don’t I don’t remember the exact number, but it was a a really, really big cut.

Greg Mulholland: And we did it quickly. We we made we made a move in April. um That was, you know, I think ended up being a thing that was really helpful to us in making it through that time. but But it really etched something in my brain. And and we’ve had we’ve had to do some some right sizing a couple times since. And every time it’s it’s etched deeper, which is We really, really need to make sure that we only hire the people that we absolutely need on this team. There there should be no luxuries until we’re incredibly profitable because you know it’s nice to have those things, but when the bad day comes, you find your tank out of fuel pretty quickly.

Greg Mulholland: So there was a and and an Apple earnings call a couple months ago. um maybe It was even but just a month ago. ah The Apple CFO um said, made a comment about having the right number of people. And he said, if you have the right people, you don’t need very many of them. and And I’ve come to believe that very strongly. It’s a really, really key thing to hire the right team, build the right team, support them with everything you have, but don’t bring on an extra five people because one person isn’t doing so great. Go find the right one person and make sure that they’re able to execute for you.

Alejandro Cremades: So obviously, when we’re thinking about investors, people, customers, they’re all betting on vision, right? So when we’re thinking about the vision here, and imagine you were to go to sleep tonight, and Greg, you wake up in a world where the vision of of the company, you know, of Citroen is fully realized. What does that world look like?

Greg Mulholland: Yeah, it’s where materials are a a ah lever of design, a design ah design feature of every product. you you know ah yeah When Apple releases a new iPhone, they release a new material with it almost every single time. Titanium was last time. They did some other aluminum stuff and magnesium stuff in the past. the key But but they’re they’re sort of special in that.

Greg Mulholland: And increasingly, what we’re seeing is materials, you know, the metals we use, the plastics we use, the glasses we use r ah are really sort of need to be custom tailored. We’re really pushing things that hard. And so just like you don’t you don’t design a car just by making the car, you design every part digitally first. We need to design our materials digitally first. And what that means is more sustainable materials, cheaper materials and more performant materials so that our cars are lighter, they get better mileage. Our phones are better. Our textiles and clothing are better. Everything is better because it’s tailored to its use case and we take less of a toll on the planet.

Alejandro Cremades: So we’re talking about the future here, but I want to talk about the past and doing so with a lens of reflection. If I was to bring you back in time. And let’s say I bring you back in time to that moment that you know you guys were at Stanford thinking about you know that company that you were going to build. And let’s say you’re able to show up you know right right there on the spot then and be able to have a conversation with your younger self, with perhaps your co-founder, and being able to provide one piece of advice before launching a business. What would that be and why, given what you know now?

Greg Mulholland: I think it would be to say, trust yourself. um There have been lots of times where I’ve had a particular view of where I thought things were going. um Even things like technology, where where that was not my expertise, right? you know I have some i have technology background, but I’ve had technical people on the team that specialize in that all the way along. And there are certainly times where I look back and I say,

Greg Mulholland: I knew better than to allow us to make a decision in that way. And I knew where the industry was going. And I ceded control. I put it in somebody else’s hands too early. And I think now I found a much better balance. um I have debates with my technical team. Even when I’m not going to make the final decision, we push each other in a productive way because I know the industry. I think I was a little too soft at times.

Greg Mulholland: That’s not to say you can’t be soft. I’m not somebody who believes in sort of founders make all decisions. I think that’s ah that leads to its own set of challenges. But I do think having great people around you and then pushing them harder and harder is a good lesson and one that I think we would have benefited from ah years ago.

Alejandro Cremades: So obviously you’ve been at it now for 11 years and ta obviously you guys have gone through different cycles in the business. How have you gone about to being able to develop yourself as well as the company was growing?

Greg Mulholland: Yeah, you know I’ve gone through ah periods of faster learning and slower learning. And I therere the you know i think ah there have been some really hard periods where I’ve learned a lot. um and And that’s maybe the most, the periods of most intense learning. But I’ve gone through phases. There was the technology learning, there was the market learning, and there was the leadership learning. And then finally, probably the strategy learning phase.

Greg Mulholland: um I work very closely with a couple of advisors and and mentors, call them coaches, one in particular that is and it’s kind of my go-to guy to talk things out because what I’ve learned is nobody has all the answers, but the people who have the closest thing to the answers are the ones who’ve done it before. And you know so I use use this person, his name is Tom, we we talk all the time and I’ll say, hey, I’ve got this ah HR issue or I’ve got this strategy issue or I’ve got this question or I’ve got this pesky customer, I’ve got this other problem

Greg Mulholland: How would you think about it? And he doesn’t give me an answer. He starts a conversation. And that’s the thing that feels best is is not getting to the answer. It’s understanding how to think through these problems in the future. And if anything, what I’m most excited about as we take citrine to the next level, because we are kind of getting through the current phase of our growth. um my My most exciting thing about that is to learn a new set of things. What happens? how do we How do we go from being the best in our industry to being a profitable company that can really step on the gas from a growth standpoint? And I’m ah i’m i’m really looking forward to that moment because it’s right around the corner for us and it’s a um it’s one where where new problems that I’ve never seen before will crop up and I’ll learn from those too.

Alejandro Cremades: Absolutely. Well, Greg, for the ah people that are listening that would love to reach out and say hi, what is the best way for them to do so?

Greg Mulholland: Email is best, it’s just greg at citrine.io. um Feel free to ah to reach out. ah we’re We’re doing exciting things in chemistry and materials and artificial intelligence. And so if you’re interested in this space, we’d love to hear from you.

Alejandro Cremades: Amazing. Well, Greg, well, thank you so much for being on the dealmaker show today. It has been an absolute honor to have you with us.

Greg Mulholland: Thank you, Alejandro. It’s been a pleasure.

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