Dr. Eric Whitaker On Raising $190 Million To Bring Healthcare To Underserved Populations

Dr. Eric Whitaker has gone from physician to private equity and is now a three-time startup founder. His latest venture, Zing Health, has attracted funding from top-tier investors like Town Hall Ventures, Leavitt Equity Partners, Newlight Partners, and Health2047.

In this episode, you will learn:

• The advantages of gaining better talent by using remote workers
• M&A deals
• How to handle running out of financial runway
• Eric’s top advice before starting a business

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About Dr. Eric Whitaker:

Dr. Eric E. Whitaker is trained in Primary Care Internal Medicine and Preventive Medicine. He is a health policy expert and a licensed investment professional.

Dr. Whitaker has served for more than 30 years in public and private roles to develop innovative healthcare solutions for medically underserved populations, with a focus on startups and technologies to improve operational efficiency and clinical outcomes.

In 2021 he was named by Modern Healthcare as one of its Top 25 Innovators (population health).

Connect with Dr. Eric Whitaker:

• Crunchbase
• LinkedIn
• Zoominfo

Read the Full Transcription of the Interview:

Alejandro Cremades: Already hello everyone and welcome to the deal maker show. So today we have a really incredible founder I mean someone that has done it so many times that I kind of like lost track. You know how many businesses you know he has been involved with but nonetheless you know super inspiring I think that we’re gonna be learning a lot.

Alejandro Cremades: You know from all the good stuff that we like to hear which is around the deal making side of things around making a difference. Ah, but but again I don’t want to make anyone wait any longer. So let’s welcome our guest today Dr Eric Withtaker welcome to the show.

Dr. Eric Whitaker: Now. Thanks a lot I like Andro it’s It’s great to be here with you.

Alejandro Cremades: So born and raised in the south side of Chicago you know that’s a challenging place. You know to to grow up in you know so I love to hear you know and and I’m sure that the listeners do give us a walk through memory lane. How was life growing up.

Dr. Eric Whitaker: What? Well you know sasad I often say is a beautiful place to grow. But but as you you your words challenging you know so when you hear stories about violence and Chicago the south side is a large part of what that takes place now. But. The the folks who emerged from there I would say who are successful are scrappy and and they know how to make something out of nothing.

Alejandro Cremades: Now in your case, you know it sounds like you went to University you know you went to University which which was you know, quite incredible, but but more than that you know you decided that the medicine you know side of things becoming a doctor was the calling. So How did that. You know, come Knocking. You know to you at what point do you really realize hey I think that this is my path to follow.

Dr. Eric Whitaker: Well, you know I and not unlike a lot of people from the South Side. You know I played basketball in high school and college and I was fortunate to have a ah a great school basketball coach. Who said that you’re not going to be successful in Basketball. That’s what he told our whole tape. But you can use a basketball as a pathway to education and that can transform your life and so I knew that from the time I was a junior in high school that I wanted to become a physician the thing I also learned at that time was about Public Health and I knew I I didn’t want to be a doctor for 1 on 1 patient.

Alejandro Cremades: And obviously you know working you know as obviously the specialty here internal medicine. Um, but you worked in different hospitals. So what? what? What would you say? you know what? what did you learn and what did you saw you know during this experience of going from one hospital to the next

Dr. Eric Whitaker: For all of my career but rather to be a doctor for populations and and so a lot of the work that I’ve done since I I started practicing medicine you know I did some practice 1 on 1 but but most of it was focused on caring for populations.

Dr. Eric Whitaker: In yeah.

Dr. Eric Whitaker: Yeah, 1 1 thing that that I think is is been instructive for me is that I’ve I’ve worked only in public hospital settings. So San Francisco general hospital out. Ah and the bay area which was ground zero for h I v when I went there to to go train. So learned a lot about you know, caring for vulnerable hyv patients positive patients and then came back to Chicago and and worked for about a decade at cook county hospital which is one of the largest public hospitals I saw ah you know in San Francisco that’s a public hospital that works. Like it’s supposed to does a great job at Cook County Hospital not so much and and learned some of the the things that can be a challenge to to practice in that setting but also um, you know learned a lot about the patients that are there and and the needs that they have. Oftentimes go beyond just medical care that can deal with food security or transportation or other things that that are now called social determinists of health.

Alejandro Cremades: Now 1 thing that is very interesting here is the shifting years in your career because here you are you know a doctor doing stuff you know around internal medicine and as as you were saying like being involved in different hospitals seeing different things.

Dr. Eric Whitaker: Home.

Alejandro Cremades: First time right there in the battlefield you know dealing with people. Why did you decide to transition over to private equity because it’s just so different.

Dr. Eric Whitaker: Yeah, well well yeah, you know the thing that ive found is people with the sort of knowledge that I’ve garnered hard on experience that I’ve gared with these populations working in these places were absent and and in the for profit sector and so. I I was lucky that I was I I started the first black men’s clinic in the country that ended up getting a lot of national attention at the time in the late 90 s and became the state health commissioner of Illinois and and got to see health care from a systems perspective. And you know the policies that are made that impact people so bringing all of those experience to the for profit sector I think has been quite helpful as as we established the the company I’m now the the founder and executive chairman of zinc health.

Alejandro Cremades: And we’ll talk about this company in just a little bit but you know obviously you have different you know, big success stories. You know that and that I like to touch on you know, real quick here. So when you transition over to the private equity side. You were able to see also the investment side of things and you know.

Dr. Eric Whitaker: Yes.

Alejandro Cremades: What was but you know some of the those patterns on what’s Good. What’s not so good when he came to an investment or anything that that really armed you with with a worldview that then allowed you to really go at it as an operator and to perhaps you know like apply those listeners that you saw from the investment side. Into now being a founder yourself and the first company that you did that was Symphonic Health. So How did Symphonic Health I Guess I Guess what was that experience that you were able to get you know on the private equity side and then at what point do you realize? hey you know now it’s probably the time for me.

Dr. Eric Whitaker: And.

Alejandro Cremades: To make this shift and and it’s my time to shine as an entrepreneur.

Dr. Eric Whitaker: well well the symphonics health was the first for profit venture that a partner and I started and so you know anybody who knows me before 2012 would say Eric Whitaker started a company and and and what I’d realized like looking back over my life. I’d been entrepreneurial and and government when I started project brotherhood. The black man’s clinic I’d been entrepreneurial and and then the not-for-prot sector and then the question was could I bring the values that I I’ve I’ve ah had all along to the port for profit sector and so. I think that you know I came with a perspective again and work in all these places and and and automatically by by coming from where I come from I’m one of the experts if not the only expert in the room about the life and experience of the populations that that I care to reach. You know those who are most vulnerable and underserved in medicine. So so the you know at some point um you know and and probably in 2012 I I decided that I could raise money and and really put in the place. The ideas I had on the forprofit sector. And and try to make an impact on on people’s lives that way. Well symphonics health was a company that we started it in 13 and we sold it in January of 2016. Um, and it focused on.

Alejandro Cremades: So what was that impact that you guys made with symphonic helps.

Dr. Eric Whitaker: Medicare part d which is federal health insurance for pharmaceutical products for drugs and we started from scratch and and grew that over a 3 year period to 48 States 420,000 clients and and 2,000,000,000 in drugs spend. And we so we sold that to United Health group and and we impacted low income populations across the country. You know in terms of how to get high quality drugs to people who who really needed it.

Alejandro Cremades: And also a 50 next return for investors. So not bad. You know for being the first for profit the company that you were doing.

Alejandro Cremades: Oh yeah, one ah hundred percent now now I guess saying in this case, you know for you, you know one thing that is very interesting is is your first company is your first baby I find that typically founders that go at it for the first time.

Dr. Eric Whitaker: Ah, that that that that that’s so you know I think people in an investment world would call that a home run. Yeah.

Alejandro Cremades: They become very much attached to the business. They think that they are the business. Ah and it takes a little bit longer to perhaps you know, go after the exit in your case, it took no time I mean it was 3 years I mean would you say that maybe this was because you already had a good understanding of what the full cycle of a company would would look like.

Dr. Eric Whitaker: And.

Alejandro Cremades: Ah, so result of your experience being a private equity investor before.

Dr. Eric Whitaker: Yeah, you, you know the you know I’m I’m one of those who would like to be financially Successful. So I can write checks to things I care about and and really as you mentioned there’s a full cycle in venture Capital or private equity that. Part of that cycle is exiting and so I never had any illusions that I would own this business forever. Um, you know the the you know being able to exit allowed me to to write checks to institutions in the African American Community I care About. Um, to be able to support the the academic institutions that made me who I am and also hopefully as I continue to move forward. Be able to see new businesses and be an investor in other enterprises.

Alejandro Cremades: And I guess one one of the things I mean when when when you take a look at yourself right? and and and you’re able to look back and and the days you know, growing up in the south side of Chicago and now how far you’ve come you know and you were you were talking earlier about checks that you’ve written.

Dr. Eric Whitaker: And.

Alejandro Cremades: You know that they that 2 2 things that you care about what would you say you know has been a check that you’ve written and and and as an example and perhaps the one that has moved you the most.

Dr. Eric Whitaker: Probably probably you know I talked about playing basketball and I went to a catholic school on the southwest side of Chicago called St Rita and they gave me a scholarship to come there and you know I was in the top honors class there. They also my younger brothers 3 years behind me. Went to the same school and so being able to write a check that supported 14 students in my mother’s name. Ah you know I would say is 1 example of of a check that it was phenomenal to give back to an institution that made me who I am so. So you know my wife and I and donate a lot of money to scholarships and to to African American Museums and and other institutions we think are important you know throughout the country.

Alejandro Cremades: That’s amazing now talking about your wife talking about your wife because the next day business that you actually started. It was with your wife and that business. You know it was next level health you know another another you know, big success there and so what.

Dr. Eric Whitaker: That’s right.

Dr. Eric Whitaker: That that.

Alejandro Cremades: So tell us about how obviously you know at this point you were coming out of Symphonic Health You know you did that exit. So how did the idea of starting this next company come about and and with your wife I mean that’s that’s risky.

Dr. Eric Whitaker: What? Well you know in that business we know who’s boss ah that you know my wife was that she was the Ceo of the company I was a founding chairperson and you know, but what we saw a void here in Illinois. Um, for a firm that was founded by african americans to really address medicaid and again on the south and side of Chicago and also on the west side of Chicago that that company was ah um, only based in cook county. But for the time that we we owned it.

Dr. Eric Whitaker: Um, you know we we were able to get it to about 300,000,000 in revenue and and had 65,000 clients. Um, yeah, we decided to exit it. Um, you know, mainly because some and and this is one of the lessons you learned along the way one one of the. The the the we got a lender who had rights over what money we could bring into the business and and they wouldn’t let us bring in money from outside parties. So we had an investor that wanted to put $100000000 in the business so we could take it beyond illinois to other states. And and this lender which was a large incuent insurer didn’t want us to do that. So so they said no and so we you know we we exited that business because it wasn’t in a situation where we could grow it the way we wanted to. And as my wife would tell you she would say if you can’t grow. You’re dying and so so we we learned a lot of great lessons that have been applicable to being successful in zing health and and a lot of the the team we built in next level. Now is with me in our third company zing health.

Alejandro Cremades: And 1 thing that is very interesting here that I’d like to double click on is you know there’s a book is called a founder’s dilemma and it’s a wonderful book and on that book it talks about building a company with a family member now I find that when you build a company or when you start a company like in this case with your wife.

Dr. Eric Whitaker: A.

Dr. Eric Whitaker: Yes, yeah.

Alejandro Cremades: You know it’s It’s you know, having that tough love and and and being able to share things the way that they are right? so that the business is effective and the business is successful. Sometimes it’s not easy because you don’t want to hurt you know each other feeling. So. How did you guys go about establishing that level of communication within the business outside of the house.

Dr. Eric Whitaker: Well I think what I said earlier I wasn’t joking that business. My wife was in charge of I was available to offer advice and counsel and and and I really didn’t offer advice unless ask. You know? so so ah, you know you know you can you can have 1 leader at at a time and and ah but you know she needed help in terms of fundraising which you know I’m a peculiar person I love fundraising I love the the chase of money I love trying to figure out who has it and how I can get it.

Alejandro Cremades: That’s my yeah.

Alejandro Cremades: Ah, alright.

Dr. Eric Whitaker: To help support my efforts My my wife doesn’t like that as much and so so you know one one of the other things is that you know I leaned into where my passions are and and I mean she used me in that way and and but but make no mistake about it. It was my wife’s leadership in that that Endeavor. And I was a part of helping to be successful, but but you know I was on her team that not this wasn’t a a co C L situation.

Alejandro Cremades: Not saying Cro I mean she definitely led the ship you know in the best way you know that one could think you know leading that to over 300,000,000 in top line revenue and then you know to a beautiful exit so in your case, you know an entrepreneur always an entrepreneur Eric.

Dr. Eric Whitaker: Oh yeah.

Alejandro Cremades: You know? So obviously you know the next company came knocking and that’s what you’re up to today which is your latest company sing health so walk us through the sequence of events that needed to happen for you to bring this company to life.

Dr. Eric Whitaker: Well, well we talked about symphonics which was so-called medicare part d pharmaceutical insurance I had a 2 year noncompete for that company and so as I started looking at at spaces that were adjacent. To medicare part d I started looking at what’s so-called medicare advantage to health insurance and that’s of a federal government program that you know ah people pay into medicare their working lives and then when they get to 65 they’re eligible to have health insurance traditional medicare just as a pair they bills come from doctors and health system the federal government pays the bills medicare advantage is a subset of Medicare which I think is a superior product. And offers not only paying bills but you get hearing dental vision and a whole lot of other services like transportation or or ah have a food card or over to counter benefits that I think is superior to traditional medicare and when I looked at ah. Program only 19% of African American Medicare beneficiaries were opting to go into medicare advantage. So I saw ah the potential of really trying to improve access to that program through education for the african american and hispanic populations.

Dr. Eric Whitaker: Um, but but also for those who that 19% who had elected to go on medicare advantage they were having poorer health outcomes than other populations even when they selected it and given my my ah experience and my team’s experience in Medicaid and in and medicare part d I thought I could build a company that could do a better job in getting health health outcomes for diverse populations and so in 2019 we started seeing health focusing on black and brown seniors focusing on the the things that are important to maintain. 1 ne’s health like transportation or food and and we started only in cook county at that time and we we started offering insurance in 2020 only in Cook County today we we’re in Illinois Indiana and Michigan and in 21 counties and we ended up acquiring another company called lasso health that’s in 34 states and in the district of Columbia. So so we’ve expanded our footprint across the country but and the core products focus on black and brown folks in lasso healthcare. Um, most of the members in that that business are rural health individuals. So we’re we’re focused on the urban and rural challenges that that our members have in those those 2 areas.

Alejandro Cremades: So for the people that are listening to really get it. What ended up being the business model of seeing health. How do you guys make money.

Dr. Eric Whitaker: Well, you know the federal government gives us a certain amount of money per month per every individual that’s that’s enrolled in our plan that my mom could become more if you have a chronic disease like heart disease or diabetes. Ah, and so we get like so let’s just say if we get $1000 a month for a given individual that means we get 1200 to $12000 a year for that individual and we have to manage all a health care cost within that $12000 if we. Are able to do that on average we we make money if we can keep the cost of care less than $12000 a year if we if the costs are more than $12000 a year. We lose money and so we’re at risk and so so the the incentive for us is to. Do all of the things that are helpful for keeping people healthy out of the emergency room and out of the hospital because that minimizes the cost that that are are are born every month for that individual and and if we do a good job of that we we make money.

Alejandro Cremades: And how much have you guys raised to date for the company.

Dr. Eric Whitaker: Weve rerised a $90,000,000 again. We started in 2019? Um, and it’s a mix of of you know we had a seed round of $3000000 we have had what I call a. And I so so should say for the $3000000 you know we had 3 3 silicon valley venture capital firms that were part of that raise we then had ah another um of $5000000 we raised what I which I call a seed plus round. And then we had a private equity round so we didn’t follow the seed series a series b series c sort of you know trajectory we we raised the 150 man dollar private equity round and then in November of of 2021.

Alejandro Cremades: So I mean I’m hearing a lot of transitioning here from Vc to private equity from private equity to Vc what why going from one to another and then also what has what what is different when you go out and raise money from let’s say ah Vc or racing from a p.

Dr. Eric Whitaker: When we acquire Lasso Health care we raise another 25 ish um you know from a couple of venture capital firms and and and that total to one hundred and ninety million dollars

Dr. Eric Whitaker: A.

Dr. Eric Whitaker: Yeah, what? what? I would say venture capitalists like to break new ground and try new business models. Yeah, you know, really push the limits and and they get rewarded more you know with ah greater returns by taking that risk. On breaking new Ground private equity firms and my my experience um, are used to having a businesses with proven business models and and and there’s been some tension with our company in that regard because there’s you know we’re trying to develop. New marketing for the African American and Hispanic populations that haven’t been done in this product before ever and and so for venture venture capitalists are more tolerant of risk and knowing that some stuff is going to work. Some stuff is not going to work. Um the the private equity folks are more like. Well you said it was going to work and and they have a higher expectation that when something happens that they’ll get a certain result because they’re used to dealing with more mature companies with more matureture business models and and and so so I found that in our and our experience.. There’s been some tensions particularly when we’re trying to do groundbreaking things that have never been done before and and like I said and some of it doesn’t work the venture capitalistic. They they have very expectation that some things aren’t going to work. Not so much for my my private equity backers.

Alejandro Cremades: And then growing via M and a you know as you were saying you guys raised the last tranch to um to acquire this company. So how do you? How do you think about M and a on the buy side to grow faster.

Dr. Eric Whitaker: Well well you know one one way that we have sales is through third party brokers and and they’re attracted by you being a bigger entity that has ah a national footprint as opposed to. When we started. We were only in three states. So if you’re a ah ah big broker and you have salespeople across the the country you want to utilize those salespeople you don’t want to only have have folks be targeted to 3 States when you could have ah you know sales and and. 40 states and so by by going through mergers a merger and an acquisition that ah that allowed us to get to scale and and get the attention of those brokers much sooner than we would have if we were just grown in ah in a ah in a smaller footprint. The other byproduct of that business was that it actually was profitable when we acquired it. So that means that we had to raise less money because that business that we bought actually was profitable from the time we bought it whereas our core business was not and it’s still not. So so it it it gives it. It allows us to raise less capital and have more runway to grow the company.

Alejandro Cremades: And it sounds like you guys are growing this nicely too. You know you are at a hundred and thirty five employees which is great I guess a hundred and eighty five wow so so

Dr. Eric Whitaker: Ah, 8085 employees yeah we’re were in and in the thing that’s interesting, interesting since covid you know we we were requiring everyone to live in Chicago since covid we now have 185 employees in 32 states so we’ve been able to.

Alejandro Cremades: Wow.

Dr. Eric Whitaker: To attract talent from the best talent for for from all over the country and we have a season team that we we have no right to have but for the fact that we’re able to attract talent wherever it it happens to be located.

Alejandro Cremades: So imagine you were to go to sleep tonight and you wake up in a world where the vision of seeing Health is fully realized what does that world look like.

Dr. Eric Whitaker: E.

Dr. Eric Whitaker: You know? Well right? right? now we have roughly about 10000 customers. Um, and you know I would love to see us at 250000 customers across the country and and you know and that’s these things tend to grow slower. But but you know I could see us having the scale. Um and also be a ah ah model of what can be done for diverse populations so that other health insurers have to pay attention and and still what we’re doing to to you know, keep pace with us. And so we would have a ah multiplier effect throughout the industry because we’re doing novel things that impact diverse populations that others aren’t doing.

Alejandro Cremades: And you know what 1 1 thing that I keep hearing you know here as as as you’re speaking Eric is saying how fast you adjust you know to whatever you know is in front of you and they obviously you know that’s something that that you talked about you know when when how you adjusted to the remote. You know work environment and and to now having people in different states and then also to the way that you dealt you know with raising capital also in covid because I mean the remote stuff is coming out of covid so how was that experience of of raising money. You know.

Dr. Eric Whitaker: Yes.

Alejandro Cremades: In Covid where you really need it because you guys were like really running short on runaway and most importantly, who do you think that you needed to be in the moment of. In a moment of uncertainty like that to be effective and not get too much in your own head.

Dr. Eric Whitaker: Well as as a ah leader I had to have every conviction that we could get the money raised you know and and I often tell about how we almost went out of business 4 or 5 times during covid. Ah, and you know you know and and before covid started. We were due to to get a $40000000 check in in January of of Twenty Twenty covid hit actually we were supposed that we we made the deal in January Twenty Twenty we were supposed to get a $40000000 check in and March of 2020 which is exactly when covid hit and so we were expecting that check and and then we were told by the the check writer. You know we want to take a pause but while we see whether or not the world is falling apart or not and and that check didn’t come until um. May so we went from March to may without the the check and and when it came it wasn’t $40000000 it was $18000000 and we were down to $300 in our bank account when it finally came 3 $ 300 and I you know I would go in my office.

Alejandro Cremades: Wow.

Dr. Eric Whitaker: And and we had 30 employees at the time payroll was $100000 every 2 weeks and I would call for dollars to get us to the next payroll and and Alejandra I walked out of my office one day and there were 6 of my my staff in a circle praying. Because I I hadn’t told anyone that we had financial difficulties and I went over and it’s like what’s going on. They said we’re praying that you make payroll and and I said I said you all know and they said of course we though because I would go by office I didn’t share the burden of not having the money. Ah, but.

Alejandro Cremades: Ha Ha wow.

Dr. Eric Whitaker: Our team believed in us so much that that you know people were working with you know and and doing doing things for our members our our patients despite the fact that we didn’t have money but I would raise money. Every every payroll to get to the next payroll until we we got the $18000000 in in May of 2020 and you know those employees will walk through a wall for this company. You know? So so we you know we’ve we’ve been through some hardship.

Alejandro Cremades: That’s how amazing.

Dr. Eric Whitaker: And and we know there’s gonna be additional hardship and and we also know we’re gonna get through it So we we have a profound belief in the destiny of this company and and everyone here is run in the same direction to get to that destiny.

Alejandro Cremades: That’s incredible now imagine if I was to put you into a time machine Eric and I bring you back in time to that moment where you’re maybe like now a private equity investor and and wondering you know what you could do of your own and maybe start your own company. If you could have a sit down with that younger self and give that younger self one piece of advice before launching a company. What would that be and why given what you know now. So.

Dr. Eric Whitaker: Well, you know, um the the lessons that I learned from next level. Um, you know that that I brought over into zing was the importance of having enough capital at the beginning of the journey because you know what. Yeah I ended up. Ah you know and my wife and I signed a deal. Um, you know that ended up being a challenge for the company but it was one of those situations where we signed a deal on December Twenty seventh that had the the language that allowed someone to determine and what capital we could bring in. But if we hadn’t signed that deal January First we would have laid off 250 people and and so to my younger self I would always urge you know, get enough capital at the beginning so you’re not making decisions under duress that could. Yeah, alter the the trajectory of your business and and so so you know and that’s why I think fundraising is so critically important and also making sure you have the right partners who are who are willing to go to and go to go to the the mat with you and and help you build this sort of company that you want to build. Be you know, having the right partners and financial partner is critical to success and and that that’s one of the things that you know I have great partners now that when when I have a problem. It’s their problem too and they want to help solve it in in the best ways for all of ah, all of all concerned.

Alejandro Cremades: So let’s say throw a bonus a bonus you know thing in there imagine if you could go even earlier in time you know perhaps to that moment where Eric was a young kid you know, growing up in the.

Dr. Eric Whitaker: And.

Alejandro Cremades: In the streets there of the south side of Chicago and you know seeing all the challenging you know things around you if you could have the ear of that younger you know self of that of that Eric of that kid and and give that younger you know person you know that younger self. 1 piece of advice about life because you’ve come a long way. What would you tell that that kid in the south side of of Chicago.

Dr. Eric Whitaker: A.

Dr. Eric Whitaker: Well this is advice I give to my kids and to other kids is develop strong networks nurture them. You know be be someone who’s ah who helps networks thrive you know help other people. Because what I found is you know it circles backs around back around and when you need help you can get it like ah Zinc would not exist. But for the networks that I’ve been building for last 30 years the the initial team I told you earlier I have a team that I don’t deserve. For this company at its sides and because of the the people I was able to tap to come with me on this journey are my co-founder and chief operating officer is a guy named Garfield Collins who is a phenomenal operator. And he fills in. He’s smarter than me in every way I would ever want in operations every person on our team is smarter than me at what they do, but they wouldn’t be here if I didn’t have the vision and and I could raise the money to put the vision in place but but the network. Makes all the difference in the world being able to to call people for advice and say hey this is the problem that I’m seeing how did you deal with this or hey I need to raise money. Do you know this person because other thing that invent your capital particularly in raising money.

Dr. Eric Whitaker: People want to have a warm introduction to the venture capitalist. They don’t want someone who just shows up. They want to be vouched for they want you to be vouched for by someone that they know and trust and so I you know I you know we have 7 venture capital firms on my cap table and that’s really because of. Relationships that I’ve nurtured over three decades.

Alejandro Cremades: That’s incredible. So for the people that are listening that will love to reach out and say hi. What is the best way for them to do so.

Dr. Eric Whitaker: Yeah, you know I’m on Linkedin um, and and you can certainly find ericke whitaker on Linkedin with zing health and you know that that’s probably the best way that I actually meet people is through Linkedin.

Alejandro Cremades: Amazing. Well hey it has been an honor to have you with us. Thank you? So so much for being on the deal maker show today.

Dr. Eric Whitaker: Well the thanks! Thanks! A great bunch and thank you for helping deal makers become better. So thanks a lot for your work I Lara.

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