Doug Brien has gone from success in the NFL to kicking his first business through a billion-dollar IPO. Now he’s working on an even bigger vision to bring peace of mind to others, for which he’s already raised $200M. His startup, Mynd Management, has acquired funding from top-tier investors like Lightspeed Venture Partners, Canaan Partners, Invesco Real Estate, and Jackson Square.
In this episode, you will learn:
- Growing through economic crises and rising interest rates
- How Mynd Management works
- What a business really is
- His top advice when launching a company
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For a winning deck, take a look at the pitch deck template created by Silicon Valley legend, Peter Thiel (see it here) that I recently covered. Thiel was the first angel investor in Facebook with a $500K check that turned into more than $1 billion in cash.
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Moreover, I also provided a commentary on a pitch deck from an Uber competitor that has raised over $400 million (see it here).
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About Doug Brien:
A former Super Bowl-winning NFL placekicker, Doug Brien got his start in real estate following the collapse of the housing market in early 2009, when he and Colin Wiel began buying single-family homes to renovate and rent out.
Together, they were able to scale up their company in an industry that had been the domain of smaller players, building a $3 billion portfolio with over 17,000 single-family rental homes that attracted institutional investors and competition from private equity firms.
With the success of Waypoint Homes, Wiel and Brien defied critics to put the single-family residential sector on the map as a profitable and scalable financial asset class.
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Connect with Doug Brien:
Read the Full Transcription of the Interview:
Alejandro Cremades: All righty hello everyone and welcome to the deal maker show. So I got to tell you I’ve done hundreds of those episodes but I’ve never had a super bowl winner you know turn on entrepreneur that is now and he’s sick on you know, successful venture. So. You know it’s gonna be quieting a hell of episode so very inspiring. So again, we’re gonna be talking about building scaling taking companies public and all of the above so without furtherdo. Let’s welcome our guest today dougryan welcome up to the show.
Doug Brien: Thank you Alejandro great to be here.
Alejandro Cremades: So originally born in New Jersey but it didn’t take long until you landed in the bay area so give us a little of a walk through memory lane. How was life growing up.
Doug Brien: Yeah I mean I had a ah great childhood I I thought I love new jersey until I went to California and then I realized I never wanted to live on the East Coast again so I know you’re sitting there in Connecticut today. So no offense.
Doug Brien: I’m sure you like California too. Um, anyway I yeah I moved here when I was young and yeah I mean really I mean I I had an opportunity to move around the country when I was playing football but like I mean I grew up in the East Bay went to school at Berkeley I mean i’ve.
Alejandro Cremades: Ah.
Doug Brien: First job was in the bay area. So I’ve I’m a kind of a bay area native.
Alejandro Cremades: And how do you get into football.
Doug Brien: It’s a good question. Um I was a soccer player soccer was my life. Um, my goal was to play in college and um I went to ah a high school that was really great at kind of every sport but like. Was known as a football powerhouse. It’s called Dala Sal there’s a movie called perfect effort made about it the um head coach had a winning streak thing was 146 games. It’s a longest win streak of any sport at any level in. Bob Lattiser is the head coach and he was just this like legendary amazing coach and they had a soccer player that kicked my scene my junior year and when he left my dad just had this idea like you know Doug you’re always the one that takes the. Penalty kicks and the direct kicks and you have this big leg and like what an amazing experience. It would be to play for Bob Latticer for 1 year just what an experience and so I went out there and I was just I basically said hey can I try out and they said sure. And they brought me out to kick a p so like you know it’s a twenty yard field goal and I just kind of tapped it through the uprights and they said is that as far as you can kick it and I said no, you just had kick it through the uprights and so I did and they said oh well, you know, usually you kick a ph kind of.
Doug Brien: You know, 90% like let’s see how far you can kick it and so I backed up and I kicked it over the track and over the scoreboard and they’re like okay you got the job and so I played I didn’t know what I was doing but I could kick it far and so I had an opportunity to walk on a cal and they basically said to me Like. We think you have talent and potential but we have an all American who’s a junior learn if you take his position when you when he leaves you’ll get his scholarship and that’s what I did.
Alejandro Cremades: And how does that land you in the Nfl you know i’s say quite a quite a insane you know journey I mean the Nfl and also being a super bowl winner. So how did that transition happen.
Doug Brien: Yeah I don’t know I mean I feel extremely blessed. Um, you know I think it starts with great parents and great role models like people to learn from I mean I’ve worked really hard and I don’t know I’ve kind of my whole philosophy has always been. Take 1 step at a time work like control. The controllables be disciplined outwork people work smart think of creative ways to to do things differently or better than others and I mean really kind of by doing that I mean I I walked on. I learned I was patient when I had the opportunity I seizedize the opportunity I won the starting spot. Um I quickly set my goals from like being the starting kicker to being the all pack 10 kicker was the pack 10 those days and so just you know each. Consecutive step by the end of my junior year I was like I could kick in the Nfl like I think I could kick in the Nfl like I can do this like and then yeah, all of a sudden it was like I was getting interest and attention from Nfl teams and before I knew it. You know I got a call one morning I mean I knew I was kind of in the discussion for a draft but literally call from the 49 ers at like 8 a m in the morning and they said we just drafted you with our eighty fifth pick and the draft and I was like yeah floored.
Alejandro Cremades: That’s amazing I mean the um, the roller coaster of emotions and I think that this has served you very well to prepare you to become ah a founder of a hypergrowth company. You know now but being a place Kicker. You also go through tremendous amount of pressure I mean all the eyes are on you in the stadium to make sure that you’re getting that kicked you know through through through leg goal that you get the point. Ah how how how is that roller coaster of emotions too like mentally what what does that put you through. Okay.
Doug Brien: Yeah I mean it’s everything you just described in more because the truth is I mean I’m not saying anyone who’s interested in starting a business should go like learn how to play kick I’m not saying that but like there’s something unique about the isolation of that role like. In those days like nobody knew how to kick like I didn’t have a coach like they didn’t no one could really teach you how to kick so that meant you had to go figure it out on your own and tap your resources and get creative and figure out how to teach yourself and so very isolated. No one’s saying like hey Doug you need to go out and. Practice today. It’s like get up go out practice when you don’t feel like do do all the work and so you know to survive like at the time I mean there’s 32 kickers in the Nfl I mean’s it’s the best 32 in the world and it’s like getting there is 1 thing surviving is a very different. It is hard to survive the average career is less than 4 years and so everything that I put into and I invested really I mean everything like I mean this goes wet way beyond being all in on your craft. And there was just an approach that I developed that allowed me to you know, survive and thrive for 12 years in the Nfl and I just found like the the founder ceo journey like very natural I mean I was fortunate and that you know.
Doug Brien: I went to a good school and I paid attention and I engaged and I learned and then I got an Mba when I was playing I was always very interested I would I would say I had an entrepreneurial itch and as soon as I kind of put myself in a position to try something. It was just like. I mean the pressure like the pressure I’m used to It’s like binary. It’s success or fail. There’s nothing in between and you get 1 chance. The thing that always stood out to me and you know hopefully as a perspective maybe that others don’t understand as well. But it’s a perspective like. And field goal kicking I got one chance I got one moment of truth I made it or I didn’t what’s always been so remarkable to me about kind of business is like you get so many chances like something doesn’t work like try it again. Bring in different resources talk to different people try a different approach like. You get so many different chances to get it right? like I always felt like this is so much easier than being a kicker not that it’s easy but easier from like a pressure perspective and staying even keeled not too high, not too low. You know as your company grows you have to be that like steward that person that everybody’s looking at for like you know, optimism and confidence and assurance. And yeah I mean to me it was like the ultimate training ground for being an entrepreneur.
Alejandro Cremades: And one of the things there that as you were talking and about having that shot I mean you, you’ve gone through you know, different Situations. You know situations of near death experiences with your companies and and you know when you have that shot you know and you got to get the point too. You know. I’m sure that you learn how to quiet the voices. How to quiet the mind How to quiet the what Ifs and and what have you learned about that. Okay.
Doug Brien: yeah yeah I mean you raise a good point There’s so many dimensions of what I learned but it’s like you know I used to have this approach that when I stepped on the field like there’s a whole process on the sideline getting ready to go on the field for a kick. But as soon as I stepped on the field I turned my brain off like all thinking was all about just doing the process that you know the letting the preparation that I’d put in just come out because there is no room for thinking. There’s no room for thinking about. The externalities you know the consequences in terms of missing or making the wind the cold the field the other gigantic 11 people standing seven yards away from you like literally talking smack saying you’re going to miss like there is no room to. Even acknowledge any of that and so yeah, when I’ve gotten into some tricky business environment I mean it’s true like I can just naturally shrink the universe into like okay, what’s the next thing. What’s the next thing I can control and it’s like. I’m not worried about things I can’t control I’m not worried about other things people are bringing up. It’s like what’s the next thing I can do now do I do I make it happen does it work. That’s a separate thing but if it doesn’t I move on to the next thing and I really I think am well trained at like just.
Doug Brien: Not letting nonessential external factors distract me.
Alejandro Cremades: Now you want the super bowl and day one of the things that you know is out there and is that most athletes end up going bankrupt. You know they are partying they’re wasting all the money. Ah now one of the things that you did and and that you alluded to is you got your Mba. Ah, you were studying you were paying attention in class. So what do you think you know I got you into that path you know versus the path of going to nightclubs and spending all the money on on on nice you know looking cars.
Doug Brien: Yeah I mean I think that’s where um, you know the environment you grow up in the family you grow up and I just was very fortunate to have um you know parents that could afford to educate me. Um, educate me themselves. Um, model model of the way right? and it’s like in one of my years with the saints that was the team I played with the longest I was elected. Um, the the union rep. So so the the nflpa is the players union. Every team has 1 representative and 1 of the jobs of the Union Rep is to get as many Nfl player as many players in the team to opt in to the 4 1 k plan now this 4 1 k plan like if you lined up a hundred wealth managers and you described it. For example, the Nfl matches your pretax dollars 3 to 1 like it would take exactly 5 seconds for every one of them to say you should do it yet. It was like a 40% participation rate and so I spent a lot of time focused on that but also just understanding other people’s circumstances and it’s like. I could kind of see why they might not opt into it and the point I’m making is that like they just grew up in a different environment. They did not have somebody that modeled the way like I had and so I really don’t think of it as like you know, a judgment I’m I’m just making the point like.
Doug Brien: I was very fortunate and was shown that those things are important and so I you know I did them.
Alejandro Cremades: So out of all things you know after your career you go into private equity private equity more for investment around real estate. So how do you land there.
Doug Brien: You know it was a family friend that I’d been investing with and you know I’ve always prided myself on being a student of the game whatever game I Was playing was gonna be a student of that game. So what does that mean to be a student of the game to me being a student of the game means like you’re a sponge like you’re absorbing things you are like scouring the universe for morsels for nuggets that I can learn and absorb and just you know. Have that growth mindset every day get a little bit better and so I started investing with him then I started saying like hey we’re looking at this deal can I travel with you to go look at the property and then it was like hey can I intern you for for you. You don’t have to pay me like I’ll just. What can I do to be helpful so I can be a sponge and learn things if it would just put me in a really good position to where when I retired in 2005 I was thirty five years old never had a real job in my life I actually still don’t consider myself ever having a real job but at that time. It was just easy to go work with him so I joined him as a partner I was you know in fun I was doing fundraising to to bring more money into the into the company but like I learned enough about the asset class learned enough about his business to be able to go in and.
Doug Brien: Contribute and make it a pretty easy transition for me.
Alejandro Cremades: So at what point do you realize I think I’m ready to start my own thing.
Doug Brien: It was when so we were raising money and doing value-add apartments. So you know raising you know 3 to $10,000,000 buying you know, apartment units or buildings. You know, 2 to 400 units that. You could reposition hold for cash flow and we would buy apartment buildings. You know, like in those days maybe like a 5 cap five and a half cap meaning the unlevered yield was five five and a half and that was about when the foreclosure crisis was was kind of in full swaying. So by 2008 I mean the banks were just. Trying to give away these homes in parts of the bay area where I live and I know the area as well. Prices had literally fallen like 70% in some areas and so I started to sniff around and I realized I could buy a house in Pittsburgh or Antioch or richmond or valleo like not that far from. You know the core. Not that far from subway and it’s like a 10 cap and then I started asking around like why? Ah why is nobody buying these houses as rentals I’m trying to buy apartments and I’m competing for them and trying to pay a 5 cap. It’s like why would I do that. And the conventional wisdom from the real estate experts was it’s too hard to manage single-family homes they’re scattered you. You know you don’t have one central building where you can create some economies of scale and I ultimately just kept asking questions and really knew enough to be dangerous.
Doug Brien: And decided. Okay I’m going to give up this apartment gig and I’m going to go start buying houses on my own because I can’t see I can’t understand why nobody else is doing this.
Alejandro Cremades: And obviously that they ended up becoming the company that you would start which is waypoint and in Essence I mean the company was same quite a ride quite the journey because you ended up taking the company public is that right.
Doug Brien: Yeah, we took the company public. We went from literally buying houses with our own money running out of our own money raising high net worth money raise money from every friend and family and their friend and family and their friend and family and their friend and family I think. Like 130,000,000 of high net worth money then institutional capital and then a partnership with Starwood Capital and Barry Sternlicht and a a reef that was called Starwood waypoint we bought 17,000 homes in seven and a half years and then ran that reap for 2 years and merged it with colony american homes.
Alejandro Cremades: And what was the um, the journey like that experience of taking a company public.
Doug Brien: Um, I mean amazing experience. I mean I would say my takeaway as I sit here today is like you know going public and ringing the Bell. It sounds great and it and it is. It’s It’s a really cool. Milestone I Always say it’s It’s like winning the super bowl of you know, being an entrepreneur and that’s the moment but at the same time It’s It’s a very hard and expensive process and it creates an entirely different dynamic for a company and so I Think. You know, smart Entrepreneurs Smart Ceos Go public for very specific reasons and and they know what those reasons are in advance and they prepare their companies for them. Um being public is just is is hard and the market wasn’t quite ready for what we were doing. And just because it was a new asset class we had grown so fast like we weren’t totally ready for it and so it was just ah ah a 2 year journey. We grew a lot but still were subscale and that’s why we ended up merging with colony to create a 35000 home portfolio company.,
Alejandro Cremades: Because ah at the peak. What what ended up being the valuation of the of the company at the peak first.
Doug Brien: Um, it was a little bit of it was like a billion one Enterprise value.
Alejandro Cremades: I mean that’s pretty remarkable hey do who would have who would have thought it from kicking the ball to hey to kick the business all the way to Ipo. That’s amazing. So so now in this case, you know for you, you know there were a few near death experiences that you experienced with with this company. Um, and. And 1 of them. You know was say cutting it very close. It was surrounding obviously financing events. But what happened there on that near death experience.
Doug Brien: Yeah, so originally we were going to go public on our own and um, we were all teed up and actually like having pre-meetings and this is when um Ben Bernanke basically so like said like we need like. We need to start raising rates and the entire reit market when he said those words in 2000 I think it was 2013 the whole reit market sank by like 25% so like literally after those words came at a. The federal reserves chairman Ben Bernanke it was like the the ipo was off but the reality was the way the business was constructed. We were like a shark we had to keep eating. We had to keep buying money or buying properties. To buy new properties and grow and to support the organization we built. We need to raise capital and at that time private equity was hard to raise for single family because prices had gone up so much you couldn’t get a clear 20% I r we thought the public markets would provide us cheaper cheaper capital and it could have in theory but the market changed and so we very quickly had to pivot to looking at m and a opportunities looked at a bunch of them ended up partnering with Barry Sternlicht at Starwood and creating a reit.
Doug Brien: But in between all that we also had ah a debt facility that needed to be refinanced and we got stood up at the altar by a bank that I’m not going to mention their name because ironically they’re now an investor in my current company. But. They made life very challenging for us and we had to go raise 25,000,000 in like two weeks to like basically keep the lights on we had like less than two months of capital and so those 2 things like kind of ah a bank financing catastrophe along with a capital markets catastrophe like.
Alejandro Cremades: Oh my god.
Doug Brien: I mean there was like four to six months of just like I mean I don’t know how much you can see my gray hair but it like quadrupled in like six months and everything they said about being a samir samurai you know warrior and being super focused as being a kicker like that tested my skills like.
Alejandro Cremades: I Kind of either.
Doug Brien: Nobody else I mean nothing else could.
Alejandro Cremades: Ah, yeah, no kidding no kidding. Well hey you know obviously remarkable journey ringing the Bell You know all all the all the all the good stuff that any founder you know could have ever or could ever dream of now Now in this case as they say once an entrepreneur always an entrepreneur. So um. In 2007 in 2016 you know is when the ah another opportunity comes knocking and it’s time to ah to get at it Again. So what? what happened there.
Doug Brien: Yeah, so the whole goal like once we got into waypoint homes. We realized you know single Familymi rental is such a big market. Um, it’s absolutely going to become institutionalized. You know there’s like 16000000 single-family homes at that time and we had this idea that. Someone’s going to own and manage a million homes like it’s going to happen. It might take 10 years it might take 15 might take 20 but like why wouldn’t that be us like what like we should be because my partner call hims an engineer like we came in like. It was very clear like there’s a tech play in single family like no other real estate asset class. You had to build your foundation on like twenty first century technology and the truth is with waypoint we created a franken system of existing technologies that were created for. Multifamily other asset class get just nothing about the software that any company was using was specifically designed for single family at scale and so when it was clear. We’re going to do the merger like we we just started talking about I mean. I got offered you know a role to go on and you know potentially lead the company and sounded great but it just that’s not where my heart was it was always on creating and so we kind of stuck to this idea like okay.
Doug Brien: 17000 homes like it was a lot three and a half billion dollars worth a home 17000 homes but like that’s nowhere near a million like what do we need to do to get to a million and we realize we’re spending half our time raising capital we’re operating on a. A technology infrastructure that is not going to scale to ah scale to a million what if instead of focusing on raising capital to buy real estate what if we raise venture capital and build an operating system for the industry so that future investors don’t have to go start a waypoint. They can just say hey we want to deploy capital in single-family. We can you know use mind leverage mind so we’re ah ah, end to end full service tech enabled operator. It’s our own people process and technology we help retail and institutional investors. Um, buy properties renovate properties finance insure and we do all the property management all in 1 um, operating platform and so the whole idea was if we follow this like asset light model focus on scalable technology and use of data. Like that’s a better path to get to a million and so we decided like hey let’s learn I mean it’s the classic like serial entrepreneur kind of building on an idea and it was like waypoint homes was version one we had success but learned a lot about what real success could look like.
Doug Brien: And so mine was all about part 2 how do we take everything we learned bring in the best people we’d met along the way and build something that could be bigger and better and so I’m proud to say like within the last year we passed way point where at 18,000 homes now we have a full you know. Operating platform that we do all of our work in we have about 800 people on our team and um, continuing to to grow. It’s a very challenging environment but you know we’re continuing to to grow and still I mean literally our our beehag. Our our vision is to power a million homes that has not changed that. That’s the north star.
Alejandro Cremades: So for the people that are listening then to get it. What is the business model of mine. How do you guys make money.
Doug Brien: We we’re fee for services so we act as broker. We earn a brokerage fee. We renovate homes. We get paid a fee to renovate those homes we get financing and insurance fees. And we get fees to do property management so you can use it most use us for everything but you could use us for 1 thing or another and we get paid a fee for it. We raise venture capital we’ve been fortunate to have you know, attractive multiples on revenue that have led to you know, increasing value over time for.
Alejandro Cremades: And and then also talking about venture capital how much capital have you guys raised today and what has been that journey like on raising the 200,000,000
Doug Brien: Our investors.
Doug Brien: We’ve raised about 200000000
Doug Brien: Um, it’s been. You know it’s raising capitals. Never easy. Um, but I would say like if you were kind of plot each financing like there’s been some that were a lot easier than others. Ah, we had won particularly hard financing our series C we were just like the market was changing in terms of what series CInvestors wanted to see and the truth is we just weren’t quite there. Um, we close the deal.
Doug Brien: One week after the Nba season was canceled in covid and we counted that we had 136 nos one hundred and thirty six different investors said no but.
Alejandro Cremades: Wow.
Doug Brien: We raised $40,000,000 Wells Fargo led her around great inside participation. Um, and we were very fortunate to have some investors that like even though the numbers they were the the market was looking for weren’t exactly there. They saw our vision they they. Understood what was happening in single family rental and I think they understood and appreciated our our vision.
Alejandro Cremades: Do you think that they also perhaps the fact that you were at it now for the second time and that with your previous company. You had a you know some serious success. Do you think that that was helpful. You know when racing money.
Doug Brien: No question about it.
Alejandro Cremades: Especially broadly at the earlier stages where they’re betting on you in the future now. So.
Doug Brien: Yeah I mean there was a bet on my partner and myself and the team we we built like I mean it all goes hand in Hand. It’s like Okay, why were you able to build a good team well because we’ve had Practice. We practice like we’re. Students of the game and we could attract good people and so I mean that stuff all creates a virtuous snowball that can roll down. Yeah.
Alejandro Cremades: So so when we’re thinking about vision here. Obviously you know is something that you know those investors and the 800 employees that you brought on board. You know I’m sure that they were very very excited about let’s talk about the vision here. Imagine if you were to go to sleep tonight. And you wake up in a world where the vision of mind is fully realized what does that world look like.
Doug Brien: Yeah, so it’s this you know the the name mind comes from what I think is the ultimate emotional goal of investing in real estate and that’s peace of mind right? So what is peace um like what what has to happen for peace of mind to be felt like It’s not to make people rich. Although you know investing in real estate can do that but like the vision of the company is really about peace of mind and I talk about a million homes but like the truth is you got to earn the right to be big. You don’t get to a million by saying I want to be a get to a million. You get to a million. By creating peace of mind 1 investor at a time. So what does that mean they’re getting the financial outcomes they want from their property. They’re getting a partnership that allows them to have a partner that kind of like handles all the heavy lifting. The hard work associated with investing and be able to enjoy the fruits of your labor and live the life that you want. Maybe it’s I want to spend more time working. Maybe it’s I want to spend more time traveling. Maybe it’s I want to spend more time with my family like. That’s the peace of mind that real estate can create I was very fortunate because I I got to try it and live it at a pretty young age and investing in real estate’s hard I think it’s like 10000000 americans invest in fee simple real estate and one hundred and eighty million invests in the stock market. Why.
Doug Brien: Because it’s hard So how can we by leveraging technology and data at a platform approach make it easier for people to do it so that we bring in more real estate investors so that they can create wealth over time and ultimately peace of mind so they can live the lives that they want and have.
Alejandro Cremades: I love it now. Let’s talk about the past but let’s do it with a lynch of reflection. Let’s say I’m able to bring you back in time to that moment where you know you were finished with your Nfl career you were retiring. You were 35 you were getting now into the.
Doug Brien: Financial freedom.
Alejandro Cremades: Real state you know investment you know side of things and and learning about it and then you started to perhaps wander you know at 1 point there you know that you were going to do something of your own. Let’s say you were able to sit down with that younger self at that specific moment in time. And you’re able to give that younger self one piece of advice before launching a company. What would that be and why given what you know now.
Doug Brien: Yeah, it’s a good question. Um, so I’m gonna give you a funny answer which is not my real answer but like I always get asked like how did you? How did you know to start buying like I think everybody during the foreclosure. How crisis saw like the opportunity to buy houses. But nobody did like why did you do it and you know we did it pretty aggressively but man the truth is like I would have put more into it. We should have bought more houses. That’s not my real answer. Um, although I would have done that I would have liked to done that um real answer is I Just think you know the thing I said to you in our in our. Pre-interview about like my real passion is is finding the one plus one equals 3 magic on teams right? So to me a business a company. It’s a team. Um I I was very fortunate to play on some amazing teams with amazing leaders. Both coaches and captains and just leaders and like I’ve seen how that puzzle can be put together. It’s never put together the same every team every company has its own dynamic and ah and it’s um, it’s magic to try to find it. And it can evolve over time like you gotta It’s never set in Stone.. It’s always that magic and I’ve just found that Um, as a leader as I’ve gotten to know myself better I’ve become a more effective leader and more effective.
Doug Brien: Finding that one plus one equals 3 Magic. So My simple answer would be go to therapy start therapy earlier like I mean I sort of got to midlife crisis Fifty s when I realized like I I have to do this. As opposed to being more intentional and more aware at an early age because I think when you increase the ah awareness of yourself. It allows you to see others and it’s kind of a simple statement to say like you know so people want to be Seen. You need to see other people but like what that means is highly subjective and to me people were kind of a means to an end for like my goals and Ambitions and I just I think I could have been I could have made a better impact on on the people around me. I could have built more successful companies created more magic if I would have known myself better and therefore been able to like see other things in people and help them be the best versions of themselves and created a better better Team. So Go to start therapy.
Alejandro Cremades: Wow I Love that. So.
Doug Brien: Sooner rather than later read Eckhart Tolly like there’s lots of ways to do it I mean it’s not therapy is just I think very valuable but like you know, be a student of the game of yourself but like try to understand yourself read read.
Alejandro Cremades: Now for the people that are listening dog that will love to reach out and say hi. What is the best way for them to do so.
Doug Brien: Educate yourself.
Doug Brien: Um, yeah, so um, I mean I’m I’m on Linkedin. My email is dug at mind mynddotceo not super active on Twitter Social Media I’m I’m busy and I don’t know I just I like to. Just not super into it. But um, yeah, email me reach out through mind. Yeah I love to talk to other entrepreneurs I’ve been involved with ypo for coming up on twelve years now and really love collaborating with and learning from other leaders. There’s always so much to learn.
Alejandro Cremades: Amazing! Well hey doc thank you so much ring on the deal maker show today. It has been an honor to have you with us.
Doug Brien: Yeah, really great to meet you all Ajandro and I’ve heard lots of great things about your show so honor to be on it myself hope hope we can do it again someday.
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