Dhimaan Shah On Raising Close to $100 Million To Build The Hamptons Of India

In the bustling streets of Bombay, amidst the vibrant tapestry of culture, finance, and ambition, a dream was born. This dream would eventually transcend borders, continents, and expectations, manifesting into a remarkable tale of entrepreneurship, resilience, and vision.

At the heart of this narrative lies Dhimaan Shah, the founder of Isprava, whose journey from the corridors of investment banking in New York City to the serene landscapes of Goa depicts the essence of chasing one’s dreams against all odds. Dhimaaan’s company has attracted investment from top-tier investors like Symphony International Holdings and Burman Family Holdings.

In this episode, you will learn:

• Dhimaan Shah’s journey underscores the importance of pursuing entrepreneurial dreams fueled by passion and purpose, transcending the confines of conventional career paths.
• Isprava’s innovative business model, blending equity financing and SPVs, exemplifies how creative approaches can revolutionize traditional industries and unlock new opportunities.
• Prioritizing customer satisfaction and integrity, even in the face of challenges, is paramount for building a resilient brand with enduring loyalty.
• Isprava’s ability to pivot and thrive amidst the uncertainties of the COVID-19 pandemic highlights the importance of adaptability and agility in navigating turbulent times.
• Isprava’s unwavering commitment to quality and excellence sets it apart in the competitive real estate market, resonating with discerning clientele seeking unparalleled luxury and craftsmanship.
• Isprava’s vision extends beyond luxury homes to fostering vibrant communities and sustainable development, emphasizing the transformative power of social responsibility.
• Dhimaan Shah’s journey reminds us that success is not achieved overnight but through perseverance, resilience, and a steadfast belief in one’s vision, even in the face of adversity.

 

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About Dhimaan Shah:

Dhimaan Shah, based in Mumbai, MH, IN, is currently a Founder at Isprava, bringing experience from previous roles at StyleCracker and HSBC Global Banking and Markets.

Dhimaan Shah holds a 2004 – 2008 BA in Economics from Northwestern University. With a robust skill set that includes Financial Modeling, Management, Valuation, Corporate Finance, Strategy, and more, Dhimaan Shah contributes valuable insights to the industry.

Connect with Dhimaan Shah:

• LinkedIn
• Crunchbase
• RocketReach
• YNOS

Read the Full Transcription of the Interview:

Alejandro Cremades: All righty hello everyone and welcome to the dealmaker show. So today. We have a very exciting guest. You know I guess that they you know it’s really building something incredible. You know in India and again going through the story of building scaling financing. You know in this case, you know there’s like a very interesting approach where. There’s a play here of equity and then also special purpose vehicles sbbs we’re going to be learning about how he left his job as an investment banker overnight. Basically you know like what happened you know with the yeah with. With with with a breakdown that they had you know in the business on how they use that you know ultimately to inspire you know and to really build a fundamental building blocks of the business. Also why you know on how they brought a private equity firm to really help them. You know in the journey. Ah and many other stuff like for example, covid how it affected them. But. Again, we are going to be having a very inspiring discussion today and without further ado. Let’s welcome our guest today demand shah welcome to the show.

Dhimaan Shah: Hi a andro. Thank you pleasure pleasure to be on.

Alejandro Cremades: So originally born in India so give us a walk through memory lane. How was life growing up over there.

Dhimaan Shah: It’s amazing. India is an exceptional place I grew up in Bombay in India bombay is you know one of the biggest not oneoff. It is the biggest city in India so you know bustling it’s ah it’s a huge cosmopolitan city. Um, a lot going on so you get a lot of exposure very early on in life right? You’re you’re exposed to finance, you’re exposed to business. You’re exposed to art. You’re exposed to culture. You have people from all over the world coming in and out. Um, so so really, really just a fabulous experience growing up in Bombay and growing up in India in general. Ah, very very exciting place to be and it always was right through the 90 s.

Alejandro Cremades: So then so then walk us through how you know it was you know that changed from being in India all all Asa to finding yourself in Chicago you know I mean that’s a quite the ah quite the shift.

Dhimaan Shah: Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. So you know like I said grew up in Bombay and wanted to study abroad and do my undergraduate abroad. It’s quite common in India for ah, you know students to go abroad to study. And you know so went to northwestern university in Chicago. Um, for my undergraduate um I studied economics and ah from there moved on moved to New York I graduated in o eight actually which is a funny funnier and and and moved on to New York where I worked as an investment banker with hspc for a few years. Ah, very interesting time obviously to be a banker and especially as an analyst. It was a very very exciting time. So I was in New York from you know, 8 till ah 11 um, and then you know resigned ah and and moved back to India because I was always clear that. I wanted to do 2 things. 1 was start my own business I didn’t know what it would be in and the second was do it back in India you know the country has so much potential and ah the journey so early here that you know I wanted to be 1 of the first to ride the wave so moved back to India and started. Started the business.

Alejandro Cremades: So then so then let’s talk about this is specifically because you know you resigned I mean you you were an investment banker. You know New York City you were doing pretty well because investment bankers do very well in New York city ah and then all of a sudden you know you decide to resign you know, almost overnight you know and and leave that behind. So.

Dhimaan Shah: Yep.

Alejandro Cremades: But trigger that.

Dhimaan Shah: You know again I think 2 things. Oh well, three things right? I think number one was this this desire always actually for for several years even through high school to be an entrepreneur I I loved it. I wanted to be an entrepreneur I I didn’t know right in high school. What I would be or what I would do. But I knew I wanted to do something of my own. Um, ah so I think that was trigger number one that was always you know playing in the back of my mind um trigger number 2 was that India was just such an exciting is such an exciting place and back then you know. It’s now in 2023 and 2024 people are talking about India on the world stage and the global stage as as an economic powerhouse and we’ve always been known as the largest democracy and we’ve had a lot of good things going for us but we were never really considered a really economic powerhouse. It’s only now that we’re known as that. Um, and and back then you know, growing up in India I knew the potential that we had. We have a highly aspirational kind of population people want to do better and get ahead in life ah point two we have a very young population. So I knew the opportunities would only get bigger and more vibrant. Um, and and I knew that if you combine the 2 of this this aspiration and the size of the population. Ah, it would be a really strong consumer story. Um, so I think the the layer of moving back to India for all of these macro factors.

Dhimaan Shah: Ah, were just was just a lot for me. Um, and thirdly of course you know my family was here and at the end of the day you know I kind of ah wanted to be around them and not two continents away you know and literally on the other and other side of the world. So that was I think the third draw to come back.

Alejandro Cremades: And when you when you came back. You know there was a trip that you did to go ah that changed everything what happened during that day holiday trip.

Dhimaan Shah: Um, yeah, yeah, so took ah took a short holiday right and moved to Goa I went to go on holiday and you know I had grown up going to goa actually Goa is very close to bombay it’s about like a forty forty five minute flight from Bombay. Um, so just wanted a quick break when to Goa it was my brother and I and um, ah we fell back in love with Goa right? You had grown up going to go out but then you know I had been away for 7 years or 8 years um and hadn’t really gone to go on maybe a decade by that point. Ah, and um. You know it was then that ah I just fell back in love with go right? and everything to do with Goa and I said look let’s buy a small place for ourselves here and we looked around and there was just nothing ah nothing that I would want to buy or you know have the home. Um, and that’s when we realized hey why don’t we build.

Dhimaan Shah: Ah, truly a world-class product for people like us in Goa right? getting into real estate in the cities Alejandro in India is really difficult right? Ah real estate is very expensive. Land is very expensive. Ah that too many hoops to kind of jump through in India. Um, so we thought goa kind of checks all the boxes. Ah for us, you know the capital commitments etc won’t be ludicrous to start at Goa um, and and ah we um, um, ah convinced our father to mortgage his home. Ah in Bombay got a loan on his home. Ah, bought a plot of land in Goa put our savings into into it as well. Ah bought a plot of land in Goa and built our first home. Um, ah we we sold it? Um, at the time for just about just shy of two million us dollars which which by the way just to give you context at the time in Goa the average selling price for a home was about two hundred to fifty thousand ah us dollars ah and and and here we come and list a home at $2000000 and sell it at 1.9 or 1.8 or whatever. It was very close to 2000000, right? And and and and people thought we were crazy right? They were like who who’s going to buy but $2000000 home and go are right? It’s not a primary city. Ah, where you know where where are you guys coming from and I think for us we were very clear that we have to build if we build a world-class product layer on a world-class service. So.

Dhimaan Shah: Each and every one of our properties are fully furnished down to it’s not just flooring and paint on the walls. It’s furniture. It’s and and it’s it’s white goods. It’s accessories. It’s down to I mean we even have the espresso podsware an espresso machine ah supplied to you by us right. Ah, so it’s literally you just bring your clothes. We bring everything else. Ah, the market hadn’t seen something like this in India ah, you know we I like to think we build some of the most beautiful homes in the world and ah, you know these were really I mean we blew. People’s minds right? when we hit the market with with this product and this service and. We. We always viewed ourselves as a luxury brand not as a real estate brand. Um, and and and we did everything that a luxury brand would do ah and and I think people loved it. The person who bought our first home has since recommended you know at least 35 to 40 new customers for us. Ah, who have actually become customers I mean he’s directly. He’s he’s introduced us to many more so it’s been ah, you know I think we we just came to the market with such a different product and service that it it. It really hit the market at the right time.

Alejandro Cremades: So I guess for the people that are listening to really get it. What ended up being the business model of the company. How do you guys? How do you guys make money.

Dhimaan Shah: Um, sure so um, we buy a plot of land we buy it in. We set up spvs so these are special purpose vehicles in which we buy so specific plots of land. Ah, each. Hspv is a project. We can build anything from 1 home to 15 homes on in that s spv depending on the size of the plot of land. Um, ah now again, you know like like I mentioned earlier we we started when we were kids right? we were in our twenty s when we started. So. Ah, we we were always short of short and capital in the early days. So unlike any other real estate brand. We couldn’t put our own capital to buy land and land bank and sit on these massive land banks on which we could unlock value. Um, ah we could only buy land enough for that 1 project. Um, so what we did is we decided we won’t use our balance sheet. Ah ah to buy the land. We’ll use our balance sheet to construct and sell and we’ve started working with you know, professional investors large family offices. Ah, ah you know, small smaller financial institutions. Kind of became partners and we would identify the parcel of land we would diligence the parcel of land we would put it into an spv these investors would come and fund the spv this spv would then do a gda which is the joint development agreement with us. Um, and we would work on a revenue share model. Um, um.

Dhimaan Shah: You know and and give the give give a return to the sbv holder while we would take a certain percentage of the profit and that’s how we’ve grown so very capital efficient. Ah you know and and and and we still retain that model even at this stage ah because you know it’s just a capital Efficient D risk model and it. Enables us to focus on execution and quality rather than get layered By. You know the romanticism of Land banking. Ah which a lot of real estate people fall into so to us Land is the equivalent of steel bricks and stones it comes in it goes out. Ah, that’s how we view the entire business.

Alejandro Cremades: So I know that the 2 years in the in the making here you know, ah there was something that happened with the roof you know of 1 of the first homes. So well how did that you know ah breakdown event you know, ended up becoming a breakthrough for you. All.

Dhimaan Shah: Yeah, yeah, yeah, we have.

Dhimaan Shah: Yeah, you know I think that was one of our first kind of ah and especially for for yeah for for us. It was a big learning so ah, two years into you know us starting we we now realized hey look way onto something and this is building this is building nicely and then we get a call from the. The person who bought our first ever home and he’s like look guys I have ah you know? Yeah so so Goa like bombay gets a very heavy monsoon for four months in a year three to four months in the year right which are the summer months in say New York right it’s that June to kind of August September period um and he calls us and saying hey I have a pretty bad leak ah in the roof above my kitchen and look the warranty period that you’ve given me is over right? We had given a one- year warranty to him on anythingructural. Um, but look guys. This is like it’s not like I’ve done something or I haven’t maintained the home for this leak to happen right? This is obviously there must be some issue with your structural. Ah the structural work that you guys did um so so so we are now in this situation where we’re still in our early days right? We don’t have all this extra capital floating around ah replacing a roof of. You know, but over over 25% of someone’s home is not cheap, especially not in those days. Um, and ah, ah, you know we were we were yeah so that’s 1 thing the other side of things is. We’re legally not compelled to do anything right? it’s it’s not our problem. We’re kind of out of the warranty period. Um, and.

Dhimaan Shah: Then we had raised some equity in the in in the in the whole core as well. Ah, from you know, a very large family office of in a big industrialist in India we actually happened to be meeting him that day just to kind of give him an update on you know where the business was so we kind of brought this up saying you know what what what. How do you think we should handle this and we got what possibly the best piece of advice which we live by till today which is take a loan do whatever you have to but fix that roof at your dime. Um, ah because the brand if you’re here to build an institution for the long run. And if you want to build a brand that’s going to go way past you guys. Ah, you need to you need to invest in that and and you need to fix it. Forget what the paperwork says forget the legalese you morally need to fix this for the sake of your brand. Ah, and that’s what we did actually we took a loan again. ah ah fix this gentleman’s roof. Um, and you know this this gentleman has actually resulted in over $15000000 in sales since then just through his referrals and it was a very real experience very early in our lives in our in our in our business lives and I think it was a great learning. Great advice and. I guess shows the value of even having good advisors and good partners with you early on and it was a real pivotal moment for us.

Alejandro Cremades: So obviously you know as you guys continue with the business you know Covid you know, hit as well and then I guess with Covid How did the have how how did it affect the business and and how did you guys go navigating that thing particularly you know.

Dhimaan Shah: Um, yeah.

Alejandro Cremades: Tough time I guess for for the whole world.

Dhimaan Shah: Yeah, yeah, so you know if I think of covid I break it up into 3 kind of you know, 3 phases. The first phase was the phase I think everybody went through which is the panic phase and and the unknown the just the absolute unknown right. So in India this was March Twenty Twenty I think it started hitting Europe and the us slightly earlier towards the end of 2019 um, but India got hit really badly. Ah, always remember it was the middle of March Twenty Twenty so nearly four years ago and um, ah there was a period of. 2 to three months where everything just stopped. Um clients stopped calling ah clients who had already committed to buying homes were now kind of you know, getting a little antsy and ah wondering whether they should go through with the purchase, etc. Etc. So there was a state of panic. Um, and you know I I think what was really helpful was you know I graduated in 2008 and I became an investment banker in 2000 september two thousand and eight where there was you know the biggest of blackswan events I think in our decade or I mean in several decades read it happened right about then? um, and and.

Dhimaan Shah: Funnily, um, we had a really good next three years I mean I I then resigned in 3 years so it it carried on but for the next three years business was actually really good. Ah as a banker. Um, and ah, you know that’s when I realized hey look. Think we might need to be in the trenches for a few months but my sense is this might actually be really really good for the business people are going to want more space people are going to want to move out of the cities because you were just you know with with a child and with a family you feel cramped you were I mean. We had very stringent lockdowns here in India and they went on for about eighteen months finally at that point we didn’t know how long it would go on but it went down for eighteen twenty four months really strict lockdowns and suddenly sure enough three months after that first you know March till say may june. Suddenly the phones didn’t stop ringing clients were calling potential clients saying hey look I’d love to you know we operate in Goa. Ah we operate in a place called alibag which is you know the hamptons of Mumbai. It’s it’s a 30 minute vote ride. It’s ah to our car journey from bombay. Um, and you know so so the the rich set of bombay love alibag go as a completely national market so bombay delhi had but you know people from Singapore Hong Kong everybody loves Goa so suddenly three months later right the phones just didn’t stop ringing.

Dhimaan Shah: Um, and we started having really really strong kind of growth. Ah, um, and and I think that was that second phase of covid right? Which for a period of twenty four months I mean you know things just went through the roof right in a great way. Um, and then came the third phase of covid which was when people were done with covid right? and lockdowns were removed. People were not as scared of covid anymore. Ah, people are feeling better. The vaccines were rolled out. Um and that’s when we we it was almost okay covid’s now done. Um, and. A lot of people again told us hey do you think business will be impacted now that covid’s done and you know I think we are very clear from day one of starting this business which was way before covid right? that look people are going to move out of the cities as they get wealthier right? because they can ah people don’t live in Manhattan after a certain point they move to Connecticut right? ah. And so on and so forth. Um, and and you can commute easily as long as there’s good infrastructure in the places that they live um and you want a better quality of life for your children. You want them to breathe cleaner air. You want them to go better schools and and and and to better schools and that’s when we realize that look we think this opportunity is not. The next four 5 6 years we believe there’s opportunity is for the next twenty years in a place like India right? people are getting rich, very fast. They’re aspirational. They want a better quality of life. Our cities are still. You know unlike a London or New York right um ah we don’t have.

Dhimaan Shah: Or we didn’t have the infrastructure that a London or New York has right? We’re building it as we speak. We’re building metros and we’re building highways and we’re building roads and ah you know with that comes a whole a whole lot of challenges if you’re living in that city while all of this is being built. There’s a lot of pollution. There’s a lot of noise. Um. So we were really clear that people are going to move out of the cities and covid kind of gave us that window and the third phase which is the post covid phase has been even stronger than the covid phase because people have realized hey look I can work from anywhere my children deserve to breed better air. Um I want more greenery I want to be around nature I don’t want to be around concrete and steel all day. Ah and hey there are airports and there’s there are highways and you know I can I can commute so you know I think covid really changed the mindset of people. But good for the for forever it it wasn’t a temporary shift. It’s been a permanent shift in hey I want more space I want more greenery I want more nature I want cleaner air I want my own home I don’t want to be you know, boxed inside an apartment again and and I think that’s it’s been very pivotal for us.

Alejandro Cremades: I okay got it and t by the way can you give me a 1 minute I just gotta go open the door and we’ll we’ll edit this piece. Okay, yeah, thank you.

Dhimaan Shah: Of course, of course of course. Yes.

Alejandro Cremades: All right sir about that. Are they the demand demand all right sorry about that will who’ll add this piece all right? So so now in terms of Capital racing to.

Dhimaan Shah: Yes I am sorry no no problem chop.

Alejandro Cremades: How much capital have you guys raised to date.

Dhimaan Shah: So there. There are 2 levels of capital raising in our business one is at the at the hold core right? where the equity level in the company. Um and and and we’ve raised about 25000000 to date. Ah, and then that’s the there. The s spv level raises right? which. Kind of churn in and out as each project kind of completes. Um and there we raise between 65 to $70000000 ah to date. But of course that keeps churning right? So that number keeps growing as we grow. Um, and it’s a really efficient way to kind of raise capital because you’re not giving away equity at the spv level. It’s project funding. Ah, without it being debt. We didn’t want debt either. Um, so we you know like I mentioned earlier alejandro for us. It was super critical to be very capital efficient right? Ah we we we we literally mortgage the house right? So ah, there was no room to be too aggressive in the early days and you know we had to be very capital efficient and we’ve maintained that discipline through the through through the last decade

Alejandro Cremades: So I guess say in this case I mean the spb you know, obviously on the equity side 20 about 25000000 on the spb about 70000000 what is that SPb strategy like I mean people would think that you know they would just like raise money you know inequity for their business. But in this case.

Dhimaan Shah: Um, yeah.

Alejandro Cremades: You guys chose a different route which was the Spb. So why the Spb route.

Dhimaan Shah: So well 2 reasons I think the first reason was um when we started out and we were building ah look I don’t think people had enough faith in the fact that an equity investment would make sense in a business like ours. Ah, they thought their capital would be locked in too long. Ah, they thought that there might might or might not be ah, an exit in a finite. You know, kind of period of time. Um, ah so we were all it was almost compulsion for us right? to set up this spv structure. Ah, where we would say what were we saying to people hey look we will do all the work around land and put it into an spv you come in and effectively fund that land. But this is not a debt structure. You are backed by your you have your secure. You’re securitized by the underlying land. But this spv will then do a Jda. With this prava and you’ll get an equity style return. So while people were giving 12 to 14% returns on debt in India in the real estate space I’m talking back then now it’s much higher right? We were paying out 22% and 23% in ah as an ir in an equity structure but not a fixed coupon debt. So. It’s not like we were liable to pay. Ah, this was only on sale. We do a revenue share so we are paying out much higher irs in the early in the early part of our journey but we were a lot more protected a lot more de-risked um and being a luxury brand we were able to kind of drive margins higher.

Dhimaan Shah: Could kind of make up for some of that delta in in financing cost in a way. Um, ah, but it’s a very D risk strategy. Um and and kind of protects us in the long term.

Alejandro Cremades: So obviously you know when it comes to investors vision is a big one. So if you were to go to sleep tonight and you wake up in a world where the vision of his provis is fully realized Well, that’s that world look like.

Dhimaan Shah: Ah, it’s a great question. So look I think and and it so it’s ah I want to take a second to actually think about how to respond to that Aandra if you don’t mind and. You know it’s a loaded question right? And if I woke up tomorrow and the world could be you know in line with the vision of is prava I think what it would be It would be a very community-driven world where people um, ah where where we like-minded people. Kind of come together to improve substantially improve their quality of life. Ah for themselves and their family right? I think that was our vision right? Let’s give people a better quality of life. Um, and you know in the perfect world. I think that’s what I would love to see right when we wake wake up in the morning ah is see a world where you know people kind of collaborate like-minded people ah to improve the quality of lives for them and their families I think very simply that that’s the way I would see it I’m not sure if I answered your question correct. You know, ah the right way. But but that’s that that would be my my my wish list.

Alejandro Cremades: So then? so then as we’re talking about the future here I Want to talk about the past but doing so with a lens of reflection. So Let’s say I was to bring you back to 2013? you know the time where you’re thinking about starting something of your own and let’s say you were able to have a chat with your younger self. What would you tell that younger self what would be that one piece of advice you know in terms of business before launching a business that you would give to your younger self and why given what you know now.

Dhimaan Shah: Ah.

Dhimaan Shah: Ah, you know if you don’t mind Alejandro I’ll actually give myself 2 pieces of advice one one would be do not be in a hurry. Don’t be in a rush. You know I think there’s so much rhetoric around being the first mover being. Hey the market will go somewhere. It’s a winner takeall market. Ah, you know and and that’s not the case There’s always a market and there’s always room for everybody as long as you’re doing it the right way. Um right? So I think that’s the first piece of advice I would give my younger self which is don’t be in a rush. Ah, don’t be in a hurry. Don’t burn the candle too fast. Um, it doesn’t make sense. This is a marathon this isn’t a sprint you know, really take your time to be thoughtful about how you’re going to do it and even balance your own your own personal life your you know, just all aspects of your life. Um I think that will be the first piece of advice. Um. Nothing’s going anywhere. Um, the the second piece of advice would be that you know, learn to drown out the noise. Um and truly truly believe in your own you know, ah conviction and and you know again when you’re starting out.

Dhimaan Shah: I Guess it’s not just when you’re starting out at any and any stage of being an entrepreneur I think it’s really really natural to keep doubting every step you take right? because you’re kind of doing it alone or you’re doing it with a cofounder um and both of you are kind of or 3 of you are as many cofounders as you are kind of doing it alone. Um, ah and and and a lot rests on your shoulders your your team your investors. You know there’s just a lot of pressure. Um, and what happens is you you you don’t want to be in a case you you don’t want to be in a situation at least in your head where you’re saying hey somebody gave me that advice and I ignored it and hey look they were right? but. What happens is you start I Also think the flip side is I Also think one of the most important and and and ah um, underappreciated Qualities. You have to have as an entrepreneur is just insane clarity of thought right? you have to be able to just drown out everything and and and and get you know, get. Break complex problems down into literally you know bite size solutions and coertive that way and and what happens is when there’s so much chatter right? and you’re doing something different or something new people are going to kind of. Question it and not not. They’re not coming from a bad place many times they’re coming from a good place actually right to try and protect you try and you know make you think differently ah look I think listen to everybody’s advice but drown out the chatter. There’s a lot of chatter right? The truth is no one really knows. Ah, So yeah, you know I think just.

Dhimaan Shah: If if you have strong conviction about something really stick to it and do it the right way. Ah, it’ll work. It’s you know, don’t don’t second guess yourself every day it’s it’s not going to get you anywhere.

Alejandro Cremades: I Love it. So the man for the people that are listening that will love to reach out and say hi. What is the best way for them to do so.

Dhimaan Shah: Um, email email is the best I’m pretty responsive over email. Um should I would you would I share my email address or.

Alejandro Cremades: Favorite email. Why don’t you spell it out here for for everyone to hear.

Dhimaan Shah: Sure it’s ah it’s my first name Diman which is d for Dallas H for horse I for India am for Mumbai. Um a for Alabama a for Alabama and for Nebraska at israva.com is pravaha is I for India as for sugar p for ah pot r for rain a for alabama v for Virginia a for alabama.com it’s demand at is prava.com.

Alejandro Cremades: Amazing. Well you see you know well man. Thank you so much for being on the dealmakerr show today has been an honor to have you with us.

Dhimaan Shah: Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.

*****

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