Neil Patel

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When David Pennino finally achieved his goal of starting his own business, his former employers were so scared of his success that they went to extreme lengths to stop him. His venture, LogicSource, has attracted funding from top-tier investors like FTV Capital, Pegasus Growth Capital, Bain Capital Ventures, and Acartha Group.

In this episode, you will learn:

  • Phantom equity
  • The benefits of bringing in fresh investors and board members
  • How to increase productivity by 45% by cutting meetings and empowering your team

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    About David Pennino:

    David Pennino is the President and Chief Executive Officer of LogicSource as well as a founding partner of the firm. Given the strength of the team he has built around him, David focuses all of his efforts on three imperatives: 1) Corporate Strategy including category and footprint expansion; 2) Product and Service Marketing and Positioning; and, 3) Client Service and New Client Acquisition.

    Prior to LogicSource, David worked for Williams Lea, where he was the Senior Vice President of Corporate Development & Strategic Solutions and helped launch their North American Procurement Outsourcing business.

    David has over 19 years experience in the Services and Outsourcing industry including roles as a senior executive at Gartner Inc. and Scient Corporation. David received a BA from Franklin & Marshall College.

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    Connect with David Pennino:

    Read the Full Transcription of the Interview:

    Alejandro: Hello everyone and welcome to the deal maker show. So today. We have a very incredible story. You know we have a founder that he’s gonna be telling us about building scaling financing. You know all types of financings. You know. Also you know like the craziness on how he got started with the business. But I think that you’re all going to be very much inspired with his journey so without further ado. Let’s welcome our guests today David Pinino welcome to the show. So let’s do a little of a walkthrough memory lane. So tell us about life growing up.

    David Pennino: Thank you very much I appreciate you having me on. You sure sure so I grew up ah down the road from you in Norwalk Connecticut and um, went to local public high school there in Norwalk Connecticut and ah ended up going to college out in ah Lancaster Pennsylvania Franklin Marshall and and then started my career right there in Connecticut with Gartner. Um in Stanford Connecticut.

    Alejandro: You know I think that is very interesting and and this happens you know around the us I mean obviously in Spain you know where I’m originally from you know you stay with your parents until you’re like None and you get married but here typically in the us you know when people go to college. They just leave you know and they go perhaps to other states and. In other areas. None thing that I’ve experienced in Connecticut is that people come back and that was your you know case as well. So why is that the case.

    David Pennino: Yeah, you know it’s it’s interesting. You know Connecticut um has an incredible talent pool. You know your your proximity to Boston New York you know Philadelphia Dc um, and also you know, frankly as a family person your proximity to beaches and mountains to go skiing and. And then you know I’ve I’ve run international for for gartner I’ve done a bunch of different things and your your ability to jump from New York to London you know Paris ah you know Asia l a whatever it may be It’s just an unbelievable hub for not only talent but access. Um, to to everything you might want professionally and personally.

    Alejandro: So then tell us about your journey in gardner because I mean obviously you know they are massive company and I think that that gave you exposure to a bunch of stuff.

    David Pennino: Yeah, you know I’ve been I’ve been very blessed in my career to have a series of mentors. Um, you know I I hope everybody has that experience in their life and and you know I was I joined gartner at 21 years old I moved through the sales organization quite quickly I had. Kind of a funny story. We had ah a winter circle when I was 22 years old which is their rewards trip for sales performance. It was in pouquette Thailand and I missed the boat out in Fangnai Bay Thailand and I was sitting on a dock thinking. This is pre-cell phone. You know how are you going to ever get home to America and and around the corner came the chairman and Ceo of gartner Mandy Fernandez who also missed the boat probably for a better reason than I we sat there on the dock together talking about life and family and goals and things of that nature and he ended up becoming a mentor of mine and. Challenged me on a sales quota that year and I hit his challenge and he promoted me to be his kind of bagman and I had the opportunity for about a year and a half to just work directly with him and he brought me high enough in the treehouse to kind of see what I wanted to do with my career and. Really shepherd me through that organization and from there I got to work with Michael Fleischer who became the chairman Ceo and um, you know who who has had an incredible career and gartner was just amazing for me, it was this. It was like an Mba in international business in vertical industries. Everything you might imagine I just think the world of that organization.

    Alejandro: And and you’re mentioning here that it opened up. You know, kind of like gave you more visibility to understand what you wanted to do with your career. So what? What do you think opened up by you know, having exposure to to this kind of senior you know, executives and. And also to to perhaps you know, like what you were seeing that maybe you were not seeing before like.

    David Pennino: Yeah, you know it’s ah it’s interesting I’m one of these people that always writes down goals things I want to accomplish at certain times in my life and one of them I wanted to own my own business by the time I was 35 and and one of the things I was doing for gartner in my second tour I went to I was at gartner twice. And my second tour I ran their Ibm account which garner’s largest account at the time I think it might still be was Ibm and I ran it internationally and I became fascinated with how Ibm built their professional services business and I had the opportunity to meet with some of their leaders. This guy named Joe Benneroya back in the day that ran ema. Um, and I just became absolutely fascinated with how they built Ibm Global Services and I thought you know where else could you do that in the enterprise ibm built this powerhouse around I t you know Accenture did it in finance hewwitt and Aon did it in hr and I thought boy where else could you do that in the enterprise. And that led me to where I am today in terms of buying things for corporations in a large scale services tech enabled services business.

    Alejandro: Now Let’s talk about entering the venture world. So you joined Science I mean it it sounds it sounds like you were having a blast you know in gardner I mean why? why did you leave.

    David Pennino: You know it’s funny. It was a controversial decision at the time I was a young man when I joined sin and I was I think I was employee 17 or None science was founded by None of gartner’s top sales performers guy a guy named Eric Greenberg and and Eric called me one day into Manhattan. And I never forget it. We sat at this japanese restaurant and he wrote on a japanese menu I wish I still had an offer for me and slid it across the table and said I need you to come here and I need you to help me sell here and it it was an incredible offer. Um and you know I felt at the time gartner was a little late to the internet um you know and and he was embracing the internet at science and I thought boy I can’t miss this wave it angered some of my friends and mentors at gartner for sure. But what a ride again. It was like my second Mba I mean you take a company from None to None from None to None employees back to 0 in none years man I learned a ton at that company.

    Alejandro: Wow That sound like a wild ride. But I mean the company is still around.

    David Pennino: Yeah, well science sold to a company in India. Um, yeah, now that’s another podcast all of itself. You know what took that company down was commitment to class a real estate. Um, you know in professional services. You hit a rough spot. You can downsize because most of your cost is people. Unless you go commit to huge office towers in San Francisco and Manhattan but it was a really wild ride and we built things like ebay and http://retor.com and http://chasemanhattan.com it was a really fascinating experience for somebody who was 26 to 29 when I was there.

    Alejandro: So on that downturn. What? what did you learn right.

    David Pennino: But I learned an awful lot about what not to do? Um, you know again, commitment to class a real estate was a huge mistake. Um I think we got over. Ah we got overconfident in our pipeline Conversion. We started forecasting an unusual percentage of our pipeline. Um, I think we ignored the fact that large enterprises were waking up to E business and we probably spent too much time on sexy startups and not enough time on large enterprises. Um, we were just eating our own dog food a bit and and I think we were overpromoting I think there was a lot of challenges in Science. We Just. We didn’t see the cliff that was that was coming I think the one thing we should have done with that market cap was buy physical Assets. You know when you have a you know a couple 0 in revenue and 8000000000 in Market Cap buy stuff that makes money when you see the cliff coming out of you and we didn’t do it.

    Alejandro: Now in your case Elise Gardner took you back so I was saying that was a good thing so you go back to gardner. You stayed there for another three years and then you turn the page and you a left again for the company that was the immediate I would say ah.

    David Pennino: Here.

    Alejandro: The immediate step in order for you to build your business and that was Williams Leah so um so tell us what were you doing there and how did the whole incubation of the business and and and how did you go from incubation all the way to to to launch.

    David Pennino: Um, yeah, you know it’s essentially Williams Lee was fascinating so I was I was I have 4 children and I was I was at Disney World and and it was my turn to it was my wife’s turn to wait in the teacup line which was like two hundred yards long and I was sitting on a park bench. Waiting for them and my phone rang and it was an executive recruiter and if I wasn’t on that park bench at that moment I never would have answered that call and it was williamsley and I went in and and met with them and and like my story with the the japanese menu I had this crazy meeting with the chairman and Ceo of Williams Lee and and he yeah I mean he just it was a enigma and and you know I found it fascinating. He said come help me build this business and you know I quit my job at Gartner and went and joined this crazy company that had for hundreds of years been a financial printer. Ah, in in in the Uk who decided to be an administrative outsourcer and they wanted to do procurement outsourcing as it pertain to print and marketing and I thought my experience with Ibm a gartner I really wanted to do procurement or buying things as a business. I didn’t really care if I started with marketing. It was a way to test if this worked and I joined williamsley um I spent 3 years there and I think we did about None in Eberta in None deals from a standing stop with no brand and ended up selling the thing to Deutsche post world net. None times e but last debt and I thought boy that worked now we had phantom equity which I learned that lesson I’ll never do that again. Phantom equity was a ponzi scheme in my opinion. So a lot of guys made a lot of money at Williams Lee I was still worried about the electric bill. Um, so good for them. But it didn’t help me and my family so I thought I’m going to go do this way beyond marketing and let’s do a real procurement outsourcing business. Let’s go buy things as a business and that’s what kind of led me to to you know do this from scratch and frankly, if I didn’t have phantom equity. And if they paid me out I might have stayed and thank god frankly they kind of screwed me on the phantom equity because it it encouraged me to leave.

    Alejandro: What what is the Phantom equity. What is the Phantom equity. There’s probably people listening that are wondering like what what is that for.

    David Pennino: Yeah for anybody listening never buy the phantom equity game. Um, it was basically a promissory note ah that was an ebit dot calculation and you know when they exited the business. You would get a payout based on the ebi dot calculation. Um, but it was it was written in Captain Crunch Inc to date myself. Ah so they did things like take the country of Germany out of the calculation of eberta so miraculously the guys that owned the firm made a lot of money and the employees were underwater somehow after they made a lot of money. Um, so the phantom equity didn’t pay out so it ended up just being paper for.

    Alejandro: Wow Wow. Well you know as you said you know that this led you to logic source. So so what was that team that process of ah of you Really you know like coming up with this I mean obviously it sounds like this this event is what pushs you in that direction. But.

    David Pennino: Yeah, so so my father you know it was a mentor and friend of mine. Ah he passed away a few years back you know, but he always held me to account and and my dad called me in my None year and said hey Dave you so you said you always have these goals and you always hit him.

    Alejandro: But what happened next.

    David Pennino: Ah, you’re 35 and you said you’re going to start your own business when you’re 35 you’re running out it. You’re running out of a year here and I said fair enough and I I had just gone through this phantom equity thing. So I decided to build the business plan for logic source. Um I had a friend and mentor Michael Fleischer who was the chairman and Ceo of gartner for years. He became the vice chairman of Warner Music group and I went and saw michael None center None rock center in New York and I said Michael here’s what I’m thinking a building and he said what can I do for you and I said well will you be a client will you be on the board and will you be an investor and he said I’ll do two out of 3 I’ll be a client and I’ll be in on the board. But I invest through Bain Capital why don’t I introduce you to Bain. And Michael walked me into who’s now ah like become a lifelong friend Jeff Schwartz at Bayne Capital Jeff and I had what was scheduled to be a 30 minute meeting it turned into an evening in Manhattan a nice dinner really enjoyed one another and he loved the idea he walked me, he set up a meeting with his partners up in Boston. Ah, with a couple of my founders and I um I literally printed None pages we created ah on powerpoint that we printed at Kinko’s I think it was on Dartmouth Street Boston and we walked into Bank Capitol ah one of my co-founders had just had acl surgery. He had a um ah ah, a constant movement machine in the back of my truck on the drive up to Boston we wheeled him in and and we presented.

    Alejandro: Oh my god.

    David Pennino: Um, and they put us in this holding tank conference room and came in about 20 minutes later and started hugging us and high fiveing us and they gave they gave us $8000000 to start the business and I hadn’t really told my wife what I was doing yet. So here we were I was quitting my high paying job I took about a 60% pay cut I was seed funded. At $500000 and I got to 8000000 when I closed a software transaction. We wanted to buy a company called http://circuit.com in new jersey to be the tech that enabled our services business. So I got the 8000000 when I closed that series when I closed that acquisition.

    Alejandro: Wow! Wow! Unbelievable now Logic source for the people that are listening to get it. What ended up being the business model. How do you guys make money.

    David Pennino: So I basically quit my job for $500000 of seed funding.

    David Pennino: So so the premise when we started. The business is still is still very similar today. So so when you think about it simply companies buy a substantial amount of things that that just keep them in business. So if you think about it simply companies buy things they sell. And they they buy things that enable them to sell so take a client like ours like Lululemon Lulu lemon are brilliant at buying their core product. It’s their brand promise and their product is absolutely spectacular. They are the best in the world at buying those fabrics and those designs they also buy marketing. And store development and maintenance and repair they buy benefits they buy I t they buy distribution logistics. That’s not their core competency. So they partner with us to buy the things that enable them to sell sales marketing it distribution logistics when we started the business those that. Some companies call that indirect procurement some companies call it goods not for resale and healthcare. They typically call it purchase services. Most organizations don’t focus on it as much as they focus on their core product therefore they have less resources less systems less spend leverage. But it can be none of categories at a micro level and it can be billions of dollars of expenditures and efficiency in that area drives directly to the bottom line or funds future investment. So when we started the business we wanted to focus on buying the things that aren’t for sale buying those indirect. Materials and services for our clients to free up. Ebitda free up investment dollars for our clients and when we looked into the market internally in an organization. This was typically underfunded. It was also branded wrong as procurement. Um, you know nobody likes to think of procurement getting involved. They tend to to have a bad brand reputation. Um, they’re typically not where high potential employees go back then in None um, and when you look externally all the options were what I’d call advice based right. What I mean by that is all the options were consulting firms and there’s having been a consultant at gartner. There’s None fatal flaws as it pertains to buying things as consultants consultants don’t actually buy anything so they’re not bringing leverage. They also don’t do anything. They tend to sell very expensive powerpoint and you know remember that’s security monitor commercial. You know there’s a robbery but I’m not a security guard that’s kind of what consultants do there’s a savings but I don’t go get it so we wanted to create an execution based firm.

    Alejandro: Right now.

    David Pennino: Not only found where the money was but brought leverage brought assets and actually went and rolled up our sleeves and did the doing to be able to drive meaningful in-year p and l op x benefit to our clients and that’s what we set out to do and I’d tell you today the market hasn’t changed much There’s a couple of new entrants that come in large bpo players ibm accenture genpac gp um, but a lot of them have taken their financial services outsourcing Fp and a in Mumbai and called it procurement. That’s not what clients need clients need complex category management. In the country they’re operating in. They don’t need you know 3 bids in a cloud of dust in another country somewhere. That’s not complex. Category management.

    Alejandro: Now The the the the beginnings you know of logic source were quite bumpy. You know so it was not easy. So so very bumpy. So how bumpy was it.

    David Pennino: Um, yeah, wise man. Once said, if you didn’t care so much. You’d be be fascinating. so so so I leave my company for $500000 of seed funding. I get the 8000000 when I close this software transaction my former company ah saw ghosts they thought little old me with a business plan and no employees was going to come right at their multibillion dollar enterprise so they hired the. I think the number one labor attorney in the country in they came to the conclusion that bain capital is terrified of the newspaper and won’t want press so they sued bain capital they sued me. They sued the software company we were trying to buy. They sued my other founders. And what they claimed was because I live in connecticut and I commuted to manhattan every day to work for them and I used a laptop on the train and I crossed the new york state line every day twice a day they claimed that I committed interstate computer fraud under rico.

    Alejandro: My God yeah.

    David Pennino: So for all you listening? That’s the statute that took down the mafia so this is their crazy claim. Ah and because they say I committed interstate computer fraud building my business plan while crossing state lines that under the fruit of the poisonous tree they owned the company. Um. and and I got to tell you it almost worked um and if it weren’t for the fortitude of our partner at bang capital and his amazing partners. Who said why would somebody try this hard to stop this business. We must be onto something um, who stood their ground. And stayed with us through that legal battle which we won twice? Um, we wouldn’t be here but we spent the first two years of this business which is on year thirteen in litigation that cost us millions of dollars

    Alejandro: Wow.

    Alejandro: Wow Unboll you now now this is this is this is insane because I mean obviously for you you know I mean here you are you know first business I mean yeah, uncertainty you know I think that this was like your your big Big. You know. Exposure to uncertainty as an entrepreneur. What what did? What did you learn from who did you need to be in order to deal with whatever was in front of you.

    David Pennino: Yeah I think the biggest thing I learned is early stage. You can’t let the highs be too high and the lows be too low I think as Churchill said when you’re going through hell keep going. Um. You know and I also think about ah ah, back in the day for you baseball fans Terry Fred Cona Boston red sox once talked about Manny Ramirez and they said why does it Manny ever slump and he said slumps are mental and Manny don’t think you know there’s something about just keep going and don’t overthink it and that’s what we did and we just put our nose down and kept working. And we we embrace that theory that this global brand with really frankly I don’t want to be harsh and williamsley really good. Good people, good executives who were trying to protect their business and at the end of the day you do what you do? It’s just business. It’s not personal, but it was in in hindsight flattering literally. Left the business they had none of employees I started this business plan I had $500000 of seed funding and they tried this hard to stop me and I just embraced that I’m onto something or they wouldn’t try this hard and and it became this hardening material or substance that made us kind of resolute.

    Alejandro: Yeah.

    David Pennino: In in what we set out to do the the unfortunate mistake they made was by doing it. They made Bain Capital have to give us clients from within their portfolio because None of the things we agreed was we wouldn’t compete in the open market for 1 year so Bain had to give us business from their portfolio. So it ended up being actually quite good for us because we were able to get direct introductions into Bain’s portfolio and kind of try out our business model with some friendly companies.

    Alejandro: That’s how amazing that’s amazing and and and we’re talking about Bane you know quite a bit here. How much capital have you guys raised today.

    David Pennino: Um, so well with this recent none deal with ftv capital you know we’re probably in the you know in in equity capital none ah you know 2 25 we’ve done a lot of debt. We’ve been very successful at venture debt over the years we’ve done I think. 3 deals with light with lighthouse and Hercules. We just closed the deal a couple days ago with Hercules Capital um commonwealth up in Boston so we’ve been very successful adventure debt as well. Um, but we’ve raised you know None 20 enty two thirty in equity capital and and you know. Probably close to a None in debt over the years

    Alejandro: And how do you think on a business like yours on equity versus that.

    David Pennino: You know it it um these businesses. Um, when they’re when they run right are very um, successful raising Cash So debt is a very advantageous way for folks like us as as founders and executives. To not get dilued. Um, you know the the Golden rule is see what the gold makes the rules so we don’t want too much equity capital you know requirement because then we get deluded. Um so effective use of of venture debt has been a ah good strategy for us.

    Alejandro: And for you guys I mean you fame I mean you been up and running now since 2009 I mean it’s it’s quite a bit you know and that time allows also to to deal with changes with the investors that have invested in your company. You know so how would you say that tim.

    David Pennino: Are.

    Alejandro: You know how many times you know have you let’s say changed the investors. You know, let’s say with like Bain and and out what? Well how do you go about that and how do you bring that new investor up to speed and with the same level of excitement to keep going.

    David Pennino: Yeah, you know it’s it’s interesting. You know we went through 3 Bane Capital Partners in our time and and I think in hindsight we probably should have gone to a mid-tier growth firm much sooner. We we did we stayed with bain a really long time and and you know there there was 3 founders of baing capital ventures and and we had 2 of them. Um, who worked with us and then ended up leaving the firm and we had a None partner who was with us for a while as well. That ended up leaving the firm and and that does create a level of disruption. Um, I also find ah a lot of these pe guys don’t always want to agree that what their former partner did was right? so they want to change and come up with a new strategy so it can be a little bit. Um, you know can rock the boat a little bit. We also brought in soleir capital who they were wonderful. As a series b along the way as well. but but I think the the business really needed a change of ownership which pegasus capital brought us about two weeks before the pandemic by the way we closed our deal of Pegasus which which took out most of being capital. Um. And and they just brought a completely fresh perspective. No matter how hard you try when you go through Rico and when you start a company from scratch I tell everybody all the time we made 110 really stupid decisions and thank god we made 112 smart ones so we were net positive when we did the pegasus deal. But it’s hard for that partner. That’s been with you for a long time to let go of the past and focus on the windshield and and when we did that pegasus capital deal. There was no baggage. It was all windshield and it allowed us to look at the business with a fresh set of eyes and really test and challenge. Decisions we had made years back that were dated. Um, so I think in in short Bain was a wonderful partner. They did everything they said they would do they did it faster than they said they would do it. We just probably and I think they’d agree stayed with them too long. We should have gotten another firm involved earlier and when we did. Oxygen poured into the building decisions. Like for example, we were retail only focused. A new partner came in and said well why the heck wouldn’t you diversify you know and and it was a decision. We had made some years back that a new partner was able to say well you know let’s let’s slaughter that sacred cow. Let’s go do something different. You know our software business was captive. We didn’t sell it out in the market openly this new private equity firm pegasus capital came in and said well why wouldn’t you sell it in the market and and some of those decisions really catapulted the business forward.

    Alejandro: And especially helped you you know do rent tough times you know later on because on the pandemic you know since you guys had that they you know a focus on retail. You know you lost like 40% of revenue in like two weeks so I think that that diversity.

    David Pennino: Here.

    Alejandro: You know, came you know along nicely you know during those times.

    David Pennino: You know it’s interesting. It was that was unbelievable and I did I wanted to point this out too when when Pegasus and Hank Collin and his team bought the firm. Um, one of the things they noticed was they looked we track utilization of our employees. So we track every minute of every day because that’s how we. Understand the rpms if you will in our engines and how we scale and our unit cost models and our leadership team spent 45% of their time on internal projects driven by the board and pegasus closes the deal two weeks later covid hits we lose 40% of our revenue in two weeks and you know what the board said we’re gonna leave you alone and go to 3 meetings a a year they’re gonna be None ur take that 45% utilization you were using on board projects for the passport and put it all out in the market and we trust your decisions.

    Alejandro: Wow.

    David Pennino: That created an unbelievable amount of horsepower going out into the market. We lost 40% in two weeks we finished that year at the exact same revenue and eba dot that we started that year. So think about when down 40% of our revenue and came right back and finished the year we started we made a decision as a leadership team to only fire and furlough as few people as possible and to fund everything through incentive compensation. We as a leadership team all took cuts, etc and bring everybody back as fast as possible I think we had None employee that didn’t come back. Through that entire exchange because their client went away and we didn’t have another job in that market. So so we ended up managing this thing unbelievably well and then in the years since it’s just skyrocketed. We diversified off retail. We now have. Clients like right aid and national vision and mars veterinary health and usradiology in our healthcare care business. We have clients like deluxe and and western union in our financial services business. We have clients like ocean spray and ti list and bountiful company. And Mcgraw-hill and our consumer package business and before all this all we have was retail the retail we have we love is really healthy, powerful retail like gap and lulu lemon and tractor supply and big lots and you know businesses like that. So. I guess for our listeners out there. Raising money is key but also getting the board you deserve is critical.

    Alejandro: Ah, hundred percent so in your case I mean imagine you were to go to sleep tonight and you wake up in a world David where the vision of logic source is fully realized what does that world look like.

    David Pennino: Yeah, yeah, it’s a great question I you know I still have audacious goals like I think we can create a category of None in sourcing and procurement I think we can be the brand that companies look to for efficiencies around what they buy who they buy it from how much they pay for it. I think our technology business um is is barely out of first year and it’s growing at a couple hundred percent a year um I think the data business that comes off the back of this could be bigger than the whole thing and think about it. We have None of spend running through the firm. We’ve done very little so far to really monetize that. Um I think logic source can be the brand like an Ibm is an it t or a hewit and Aon as an ah hr I think we can be the brand in sourcing and procurement I think we’ve just got to do a better job getting our name out there. We’re kind of the best kept secret right? now we spend very little on marketing. Um, but when cfos meet us they say boy how did I not know this was an option out there.

    Alejandro: That’s amazing now. David imagine I put you into a time machine and I bring you back in time I bring you back in time to that moment where you know perhaps like the phantom you know equity had happened and you were wondering about what what? what’s going to be next and.

    David Pennino: Think.

    Alejandro: And you have the opportunity of sitting down that younger David and you’re able to give that younger David one piece of advice before launching a business. What would that be and why given what you know now.

    David Pennino: Yeah I think the biggest thing I lost somewhere along the way I hadn’t um, probably unwarranted confidence as a young individual I grew very quickly a gardener rose very quickly at science and Williams Lee and somewhere along the way I let my board take my confidence down and I started playing the game um, with trepidation you know I was walking more gently. Um. And it was interesting. We had a meeting. We were flown into London for a private equity firm that was going to buy a company I used to work for and I was kind of brought in as an expert witness if you will they were asking what I thought of this business and that particular private equity firm treated me like I remembered being treated at gartner in it. Williams Lee and Scient and I got on the plane and I thought I want to be that guy again and I had let my board in that 45% utilization on internal projects I had let them change who I was. And I just woke up one day and said no I’m going to play the game my way I’m going to hit hard every day I’m going to say exactly what I think and come what may and I changed that day and we ended up saying let’s buy the business back from Bain. They let us do it. We got the buyer. We got the deal done. We operated completely differently with the pegasus board I made a decision to go do a deal with ftv exclusively. So we had hired lazard but the relationship I have with Brad Bernstein the managing partner of Ftv Capital I wanted to go exclusive with him I didn’t want to run a process I didn’t want the. Best deal I wanted the right deal and you know and and what I mean by best is the highest number and thank god I had a partner in pegasus capital that wanted the the right deal for logic source not necessarily the highest price. Um. And and and that controlling my own destiny and picking the partners I wanted to be around the table. Um, operating the business the way I wanted to listening to my executive team and trusting them instead of micromanaging them all those things if I could tell that form or me to do it sooner. Trust my team sooner to to hit hard at the board and do what I knew was right in my gut sooner I think we would have gotten here a lot quicker.

    Alejandro: Wow now for the people that are listening David what is the best way for them to reach out and say hi.

    David Pennino: Um, probably you know, just hit me on Linkedin Messenger you know I’m out there publicly my my you can hit hit me directly on email which is David Panino http://atlogicsource.com but if you don’t remember that just look me up on Linkedin and please. Ah, shoot me a messenger I’d I’d love to get to know you and there’s a lot of folks out there that are looking to raise capital and I’ve got scars and trophies I’d be happy to share with you.

    Alejandro: Ah, well David you know it has been an honor to have you on the deal maker show today. Thank you so so much for being with us so much.

    David Pennino: Well thank you very much I really appreciate it and I would be remiss in not saying my team did all this you know my cfo nikki heim my co josie my head of customers Kirk Coster my Cpo Michael Braunsragger that that team. Who raises that money and builds that confidence and does those deals I get a lot of credit for it. But maybe um, ah my credit is deserved for hiring that team.

    Alejandro: Amazing. Thank you David.

    * * *
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    Neil Patel

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