Daniel Khachab On Raising $336 Million To Bring Transparency To How Food Moves Around The Planet

Daniel Khachab is the cofounder of Choco which is a food ordering platform that connects restaurants and suppliers. The company has raised $336 million from top tier investors such as Bessemer Venture Partners, Insight Partners, or Coatue to name a few.

In this episode, you will learn:

• How Choco is championing the food waste problem
• Fundraising and staying ahead of financial crises

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Moreover, I also provided a commentary on a pitch deck from an Uber competitor that has raised over $400 million (see it here).

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About Daniel Khachab:

Daniel Khachab loves the complexity, inefficiency and yet worldliness of global food supply chains. Food waste is the single largest driver of our climate catastrophe, and hiim and his team know that streamlining the global food system will be the single largest contributor towards a sustainable planet. At choco, the company he cofounded, they are committed to solve this problem.

Previous to choco, he started and scaled marketplace-, Ecommerce- and SaaS-companies from scratch to market leadership across 6 continents.

Daniel Khachab strongly believes in rigorous user-centric product management, deep involvement of engineering in product discovery, highly scalable processes and output driven teams built by rigorous selection processes. Daniel Khachab believes that culture is the ultimate competitive advantage and that ridiculous hard work and risk taking are the single best tools if you strive to change the world.

Connect with Daniel Khachab:

• Crunchbase
• LinkedIn
• Twitter

Read the Full Transcription of the Interview:

Alejandro Cremades: All righty hello everyone and welcome to the deal maker show. So today. We have a really incredible founder. You know we’re gonna be talking about. You know, really building a rocket ship and now being you know on his way to space I mean it’s unbeliev what they’re doing so. I think you’re gonna find this episode super inspiring so without fartherdo. Let’s welcome our guest today Daniel Cash up welcome to the show. So so so Daniel so give us a little of a walkth through memory lane because I know that the you know although you are you’re like have libanese.

Daniel Khachab: My pleasure being here. Alejandro thank you so much.

Alejandro Cremades: Have German you know at this point you know you had a really interesting upbringing So give us a walk through memory lane. How was life growing up.

Daniel Khachab: You know I think I grew up in the very south of Germany close to the alps on the one one side of my family kind of you know, being really like bavarian christian and off the other side of my family we libanese muslim and so. It was a pretty diverse There was upbringing and and I think I really only realized that once I was much older that kind of growing up between 2 cultures gave me a lot of lot of understanding. Um, and I think also a lot of lot of lot of ease compared to the german rigidness I think it enables me until today. Um. But obal was ah was a lot of fun I believe growing up between those 2.

Alejandro Cremades: So I Guess say for you, you know it was same interesting there because I mean you ended up going to school later on and and it sounds like you know you had the entrepreneurship in you because very early on you got you got going you know with a whole thing of Entrepreneurship. So How did you get? you Know. Bugin and how did you you know like come about creating you know like that first company that you guys did too you know which was you know more like in in school but it was a social network. So So I mean did you have anyone in your family that was an entrepreneur or how did you get that you know business you know drive.

Daniel Khachab: Um, yeah.

Daniel Khachab: Yeah, So I think maybe very different than tech entrepreneurs. But nevertheless my parents and my grandparents and they had all been entrepreneurs and in some ways and so my my grandfather had like ah had like a butcher that also worked in later On. Ah, Mom saw the business together with with my dad and set it like another business. Ah ah, later on and and and and those were all very different kind of businesses right? and on my my dad’s side is where you should Lebanese emigrants and and they were famous usually for doing like used car dealerships used use truck dealerships and so. Those were not techie business at all and maybe not scaled businesses either. But nevertheless they were entrepreneurs and they made something out of out of nothing just by like hard work and and conviction and I think I just grew up having having that as my only role model and I think so for me, there was. There was never even another option other than starting a company.

Alejandro Cremades: So then let’s talk about that. Let’s talk about your first day you know business you did that in school. So how’d that the idea of the social network you know come about I mean know it it was obviously you know back in o 7

Daniel Khachab: Yeah.

Alejandro Cremades: You know they they probably the social media space was not as developed mobile was not here. You know probably you even had to mail your picture somewhere. You know to have it posted. You know, like back in the days. So um, yeah, how was that.

Daniel Khachab: It was a very interesting time because I actually met back to my my cofounder at at School Jonas and we were you know, maybe in like ninth grade and he at that time just taught himself how how to code and. He was like creating this like really interesting network where you could essentially have have friends. Um, where you could like post pictures. You know of the parties that eventually happened on the weekend and and back then there were a couple social networks out there and none of them was dominant really and I think in particular the ones in Germany were just. Like very slow and so we said okay like look if we can build technology at at least as fast and responsive people would like use it more Um, and so we started and then at some point you know more and more social networks came in the question was more like how do you differentiate yourself.

Daniel Khachab: And so for us at that time it kind of felt natural or right like you have ah you have a group of friends that you’re on the same network with you can create um, kind of like events. You know it can invite them to your to your home party or things like this but we said okay actually you should be able to to book a restaurant from that network. And then directly invite your friends that are also on that social network to your to your reservation and and that that was kind of the concept and that’s how we continued and I remember we we grew very early on we had um, but like a really like colorful. Corporate identity a colorful brand and we just went through the city center of munich and handed out flyers and that’s kind of how it really got our first probably five 6000 users on it and so so that was a fun experience I would say it felt though more like a project and less than a business I think we never looked through it for a business lens. Um, but it was a lot of fun and I think we learned a bunch.

Alejandro Cremades: And I think that you know like 1 of the one of the cool things here is that it was early on in your career. You were very young. Um, and as they say you either succeed or you learn so the company ended up winding down and I guess what was the biggest lesson that you took away from from that experience.

Daniel Khachab: So think about there were probably 3 I think the first one is like co-founding a company. Someone else is probably more than a marriage because it’s very hard to to solve if there’s a problem for it and so you need to be. Really be able at all times a particular and tough times because they’ll come no matter how good you are to be able to look into each other’s eyes and to make good decisions that always prioritize the company. Never your personal needs I think the second thing is that and in the beginning just do whatever it takes to grow. Yeah, until you’re not live until you not have the first traction you’re a nobody and by whatever it takes I mean going out there and flyerring in the city center for a social network is about as far away as you can get to how you know Facebook later on grewer instagram later grew or Tiktok is growing today. But nevertheless sometimes you kind of need to do those manual things. Those things that don’t don’t scale to get your initial traction and then um, ah maybe lastly yeah, it’s just all about user value. You can have a great brand and you can have a great go to market. You can even ever you know. Well-built and designed product but the product it just provides the most value to users is the one that’s going to win and that can be in terms of features. You know that can be terms of speed that can be terms of network effects. You know who other people are using it so in the end of the days.

Daniel Khachab: Just about value value value and that’s that’s just very little that can be hide behind that.

Alejandro Cremades: Now in your case after this what happened is you went to the Army I’m sure you got some good discipline and and and I mean incredible experience. I’m sure that was but then eventually you know you you go out of that you do international business and then you while you were there. You were. Doing your internship to what the Rocket internet you know which is this a kind of like a how how would how would you Define Rocket Internet for the people that are listening to really understand what Rocket internet is.

Daniel Khachab: Yeah, so so rocket internet was a company builder but a really scaled and successful. One. So give you a couple of the examples and 3 of the companies that that were built. Rocket ended up to today and and the german ducksy yeah kind of the german blue chip index if you want so um, maybe the most famous 1 being hello fresh or solando deliver a hero is there also a very large exit. We did selling the Amazon of Southeast Asia to Alababa one and a half billion billion the all the first tech ipo ever out of Africa was Zia and we listed that in on the New York Stock exchange and so we really build like very scared businesses and exit them across all major consumer categories and and all um and all geographies and the business model was really to look at businesses that had worked elsewhere. And were innovated elsewhere like for example, the us and to bring into geographies where they had not not been before and I found that very interesting for for 2 reasons. The the first thing that was I mean I wanted to start an own company and I wanted to learn. How to start and scale a business and I found that a perfect place to learn I think that’s the first reason why I went there. The second was that the company and nf the day was very emerging market focused and I always like kind of the pragmatism.

Daniel Khachab: That that you nee09:12.37d in order to succeed in emerging markets I like the additional layer of complexity. Um I like the the amount of risk that is involved if you want to succeed in emerging markets and and that’s that’s kind of where I went there.

Alejandro Cremades: And in your case too. I mean you you traveled quite a bit. Um, you know during this time I mean you went to Colombia you went to South Africa I guess from all these travels what what opened up for you. Because I’m sure that you know there was like a different perspective there too when when you’re able to travel a little bit and see that there is life outside of Germany.

Daniel Khachab: So you know I always enjoyed working many different different countries because I think by working you learn so much more than than just by traveling because you actually you’re working. Day-to day together solving problems with the people that are local to the particular country and not only that you learn how to work in different cultures. But more than you know learning what’s different. You actually learn like like what’s fundamentally the same and fundamentally what I learned is that. People want to be happy no matter where you are and sometimes they have different strategies of of getting there and the second thing I learned usually people have more or less the same desires and the same problems. No matter where you are at different scales. Yeah at different sizes of the problems but usually it’s it’s a similar one and. And I think that was that was really eye-opening because um I think that when you build for example, an online fashion store like like so landode as a business that’s operating across Europe and and we started it for example and in South Africa in the end of the day that the people wanted the same thing you know they wanted a large assortment. 1 that a generates return policy. They wanted a trustworthy online payment now they wanted the same thing but all of these things they were executed differently. So for example, a trustworthy return policy might mean in Europe that you have a hundred days. You know to put a batch on your.

Daniel Khachab: On your on your box and like send it back and you kind of trust the company to try transfer the money back now that is not necessarily a given when you start a company like that out of whatever so of Africa Colombia for example, so you just got to be pragmatic about it. You build your own delivery fleet. You have a driver coming coming to your home to give you the box. The pair of shoes you the driver’s going to tell you you have 50 minutes to try them on you go inside. You try them on you like them. You pay the driver the driver continues you don’t like them. You just hand them back and and no transactions happen happen in the first place and and and it just needs to. Pragmatism to succeed um solve but solving usually always the same problems and I believe that pragmatism is just a very important a very important business lesson um sort of a lot of learnings. In fact, working in different countries. So.

Alejandro Cremades: You know, kidding and obviously working at rocket internet you got to see you know all types of companies launching on every category that you can think of so I guess you know when it comes to idea validation launch and scale. But would you say from from being involved with so many companies you know during this time that you spent you know at rocket you know what would you say you know where your biggest takeaway is because I mean you were there for over five years and that in startup you know dog years is a ton of time. So. What were your major lessons you know around those things.

Daniel Khachab: So I think you have to be bold and you have to be accepting that boldness has a component of of making mistakes and I believe that is the fastest way to learning because at the end of the day you’re doing something. In many cases has not been done before and probably in all cases you have not done before and and the best way to do so is is just to start not to overthink and run I remember with a launch process and kind of before we started building. We had like one week to decide which business model how to monetize which countries are gonna we’re going to expand to because said look the fast way of learning is is this just to go out there to launch to get customer feedback and so so so just be bold and run I think that the second learning was that there is naturally. Parts of the business that people let’s say have more respect of than others so usually geographical expansion and going to another countries is something that you know many people many companies consider complex andavier. But maybe when it comes to like building product. Um. Think it’s less complex because you just ship a first feature you go out there. You speak to users and you try. It’s kind of like a low investment but the same thing you can do with expansion actually too when we when we expanded we sometimes sent like 2 people and we said ok like look.

Daniel Khachab: Let’s let’s do it for three weeks let’s speak to users that’s see if like our value prop works then if it works great. We invest and if it doesn’t work. Let’s let’s move on and so I think I think that was important. Um I think that the best lesson was however that that I believe.

Daniel Khachab: That most people in their lives. They want to go on a mission many. Don’t know of that. But nevertheless they want to go on a mission and in many ways the role of the leader and the role of the company is is to provide that Mission. You know and kind of like ah just a play where people can give their everything or people can excel what people learn people also allowed to do allowed to do mistakes and it just such a thing that creates a great culture in which just everyone is like growing really fast and I think you manage to pull it off over and over again and ah. And think just that like needing to provide a mission for people to excel and people actually wanted very intrinsically I think was ah probably the biggest learning. Yeah.

Alejandro Cremades: So let’s talk about going on a mission for you because eventually you decided that it was time for you to activate that mission and you gave your notice and you left a rocket and all of a sudden you find yourself, you know on those fourteen months where you’re trying to really figure out. You know what? that mission is going to look like so at what point do you? I mean how how why did you take that decision and then also how did you structure those forty months to make sure that you were able to find the solution to that problem that you had encounter and to do it in a meaningful way so that you know you could really you know launch something that they.

Daniel Khachab: Yeah, absolutely So I think the first thing we did So so so we left rocket because said all right look We’re like scared of the challenge but we’re also somewhat confident that we have at least at least learned a fundamental skill set on how to build operations how to build a.

Alejandro Cremades: That was sustainable enough.

Daniel Khachab: at least a simple simple simple product and how to how to at least have to tools it on how to find product market benefit and so so so we left and then we said all right? Let’s start something and our goal was to start something within within three months that was our initial goal. And then we started know very structuredly and we had like this super large axl sheets of on the Y.Xs we have all kinds of business models. You know like saas and marketplace and and so on and the y xs as or in the x-axis and with all kinds of different industries. And then you have like this one hundred by hundred matrix and you see look essentially like where’s an empty spot. But then the problem is you know you’re ending up then with uber for pets or with like a marketplace for luxury watches and what I do think. That there you know might be business value in those problems. The truth is me personally I don’t care about these problems but as a founder if you’re serious about it. You will need to commit to a very long time to this problem so you better care about it. And so it it took us probably one two months to realize alright so that’s not our approach. We didn’t have a better approach either and so we said all right like let’s first do ah, do do a big reset. So I think we just went um, went a month offline and I think that just helped me a lot and training clarity on on on.

Daniel Khachab: At least I wanted and and my co-founders too and we said look in the end of the day we’re not looking for an idea we’re looking for a problem and with 2 expectations towards that problem First it should be a large one. A very large and complex problem something. It keeps us challenged for 20 years like we want a challenge and second an important problem and why was the important problem ah vital for us is because yeah you commit for so so much time. But we also we knew that any company no matter how good you are will go through tough patches and we took away our fair amount of those and I think we we went went through them. Um sometimes more well sometimes sometimes less but in the end we grow after all of them. But. In these tough patches you need to be able to stand in front of the team and tell everyone it’s particularly important that we that we work hard now that we work as a team that we solve our user problems that we push out value faster. Um, and. And you will need to reason on why they should do it and if the reason is not solving for an important problem then it’s just unauthentic. You know I would have a hard time sending front of the team and say you know team we need to push extra hard now because it’s important that we get more oil out of the ground to like fuel more cars.

Daniel Khachab: I think more carbon dikes and so it’s it’s it’s it’s an unorentic thing to do so we said let’s let’s find an important problem too and then we started our real search probably three months in looking for large and and important problems.

Alejandro Cremades: So then let’s say fast forward here. You arrive to month Fourteen what happened there.

Daniel Khachab: Now so in the end very very simple There’s not so many large and important problems out there in the first place. Yeah, we will I believe on on like the largest level There’s there’s 3 there’s climate change that’s education. There is inequality. And all of those 3 are so large that by definition they’re they’re interconnected and so we just started. Um, we we look at all 3 and we started with with climate change and then you dig deep into climate change and then it’s it’s driven by greenhouse gas emissions and then you look where the greenhouse gas has come from. Then you see around 1 1 4 25% come from energy production another 25% come from the food system and then it continues and then like I believe that the fourth or fifth category of 16% is transport and then we were like okay like wait. What. Andron is talking about you know electrification of vcyclals. But that’s only category like 5 or 6 so actually it’s like not our largest lever and electric and and then our electricity production about nuclear fusion that that was kind of there very like a hardware scientific problem that wasn’t us. And that’s also unless necessarily we’re passionate about a real passion. A lot about food and so we dug into it and dig into the to the food system part that is one of the 2 major contributors to climate change and the first thing you realize is that 40 to 50.

Daniel Khachab: Depending which which source you look at for the take of the sake of the day. Let’s say 50% of all food produced goes to waste which means that 50% or all of the greenhouse gass that food produce are unnecessary in the first place because it’s. Just waste It’s not feeding anyone. There’s no benefit whatsoever. It also means that producing double as much food as we need so and and then you kind of you. You kind of dig deeper and you find out alright. How do we produce food who’s doing that and there’s five hundred forty million farmers around the globe and in fact, farming single a large employer on the on the planet and farming happens in particular more in the poorer um regions on the um on the and on the globe and this is where money certainly is is not arriving. And if money is not arriving on the farms. Then these people cannot afford education and not having access to education pays into inequality and so on and so forth and so these things things were interconnected at the same time. Um, but the largest drove of deforestation. Food production right? because it burned down Amazon rainforest to create fields to grow food that we end up throwing away half of it. The largest driver of extinction of animal species is habited loss which is driven by deforestation and so on and so forth. So it’s a very large and interconnected problem.

Daniel Khachab: And in second they’re inter tersary consequence. It has many many ripple effects and so I said like like that’s something that we’re happy to commit 20 years to and we’ll never regret trying to solve that that problem of of food waste and within the food system and. That’s on how we started and the question was okay like that’s our problem now. How do we solve it and in the end of the day when you think about the food system then there’s 2 very important characteristics. The first is that it’s a hypercommoditized market. A cucumber. It’s a carrot. It’s a chicken breast. There’s there’s very little to no product differentiation the second ah thing is that there’s oversupply right? In fact, there’s 50% a hundred percent too much supply because you throw away 50% of everything that that we produce which means you have oversupply. And no differentiation in the product. This means it’s a buyers market. The buyers can choose from who they buy and what they buy they are in absolute control and so we said alright so the buyers have the power. But. But who’s behind and then you do some research and we really traveled around the globe from from us to to Brazil to Singapore and to Ghana and and we found out that between the average restaurant which is if you want so at the end of the supply chain is a buyer of food.

Daniel Khachab: And the average producer if an ever you have um on average 9 parties in between you have the supplier that delivers into the restaurant who buys from the wholesaler who buys from a distributor buys from an export or from an import a harvest manager.

Daniel Khachab: And um, and so we said alright so if we want to solve that problem. The first thing that we have to do is is we have to own the demand. Yeah, we have to own the demand that the the the um at the very big, very end of the supply chain. The money and and supply chain and once we have it we could kind of build technology that goes deeper and deeper into it and and that was kind of offst stretch from the beginning and.

Alejandro Cremades: So then how are you guys making money for for the people that are listening to really get you know how you guys extract value from that value that you bring to the table.

Daniel Khachab: Ah, yeah, so so the first two years of choke we’re 5 years old now. We only build a tool for restaurants. Why did we do that because how do restaurants order the ingredients today. So I assume I’m a chef then I work until 11 p m I clean the kitchen then I sit down and I call on if I’m in the us. On average 6 different supplies and I leave them a voicemail and I say hey this is stio you know from like the the beer garden and my client numbers 1 to 3 and I would five lime and twenty tomatoes and and a pound of of chicken breast and I hang up I’m like that are just all the limes. It’s kind of like a bad process for me and on the other side. A supplier and the large holds in markets on the planet in which you in every every city between 601005 one thousand 500 of them and they’re gonna listen to this voicemail at’s three zero am M in the morning when they start working and it typed things into the system notice. There’s a couple of problems. The first one is I have a heavy accent. Let’s say being a german chef. New York hard to understand then I second I just ordered tomatoes. Okay, but did I actually desire oxad tomatoes or cherry tomatoes. What they actually want so naturally a lot of problems of cure and so we said all right the first three years we just build a technology for restaurants. <unk> enables them to order within 5 minutes and have a paper trail have analytics have integrated inventory and things like this and after 2 years of just sending email orders suppliers. We started building software for the suppliers.

Daniel Khachab: And at that point we got attention of the suppliers because we had the buyers on the platform already right? We had that demand at that point we’re probably doing 20,300,000,000 in gmv and when you when you do this kind of amount of gv in a platform. You certainly have the attention of suppliers and. And as you can see is really how the playbook like worked out well by owning the demand and then you get the attention of the supply and then we started building for the suppliers quite a significant software suite and today we automate most of the processes. From the inventory their assortment their offers their um food food waste reduction you know because they can just sell off for example, end-of-shelf life things. Um, we integrate into the earpiece system and and we just charge a commission. Um on all of the products. That the suppliers sell on choke or to their restaurants. So we’re not a marketplace. We connect the supplies only to who they already work with and food you kind of have like this long lasting relationships but we charge nevertheless ah a a commission for for our value and and um, that’s um.

Alejandro Cremades: And obviously this is a capital intensive to no so how much capital have you guys raised today and what has been the the approach on racing it the way that you guys did.

Daniel Khachab: Yeah, so we raised three hundred million Euros so far and I think that that’s there’s a couple of things think the first thing was that I remembered. Someone told me this at some point but up until today I don’t know who and this person told me and the end of the day the best way to raise money is to make a company do good um or do well and so from day one we were so hyper focuseded just on our numbers. Um, that for the first two years we had no advantage of being out there and doing marketing and have a website. We didn’t even have a website with no social media. We had no Linkedin. We had nothing just because I gave a of us focus on finding product market fit and onboarding very manually. Our first users. But what it gave us. Is that we had like strong user engagement and retention very early on and so probably the first 200,000,000 we raised without a deck. You know we had like a monthly update that we would send to our shareholders that was. Derived from our internal kind of wiki business review numbers essentially just like growth and retention numbers and we put them on five six very ugly slides because we were bad at building slides and and we just had them speak speak for ourselves and so up until that day I believe kind of like the act of fundraising.

Daniel Khachab: It’s it’s kind of secondary. What what? you just need to focus on as ah as as a founder. It’s like making these numbers work out and I think it’s always better to spend 10 hours out the end the field talking to 20 customers and getting the product feedback and investing 10 hours and making your deck more. Ah, beautiful. So I think that’s one I think the second principle that I had learned at rocket actually is look in the end of the day. The probability of a startup to fail is higher than the probability of the startup to succeed. And so in many ways your job as a founder is to constantly increase increase the probability of succeeding and one way to do that one very vital way is by having more money on the bank account rather than less because more money just means I have more time to make mistakes if I have money until tomorrow I do a mistake today I have a problem. If I have money until next week and I do a mistake today I still have time to correct and to learn from it right? And so I think we always tried to raise as early as possible. Um, we um, we always looked at of course it will. Would be a fair deal but I don’t think we ever optimized on dilution. Um and and or on valuation and and it took us. Nevertheless it took us around 3 years to go from 0 to to to billion Billion Euro valuation um and I think these were 2.

Daniel Khachab: Very very important principles and and they served as well. So I can tell you we raised our series a from from besemer thirty million Three months later we raised and a series ah a 2 from coach another 30000000 and back and people asked kind of strange raising 2 times. 30 um, but you know two weeks later covid hit and during covid during the lockdown’s restaurants closed and so all our genv all our revenues vanished by 95% within 24 hours and that’s a life-threading situation for a company that is not even 2 years old but at that point in time we had increased our probability of of succeeding just by but taking on more money and so we could kind of invest anticyclically we did not need to do massive layoffs. We could invest in our product. And we could grow throughout the whole code phase and our competition could not um, just by but taking this by by following like that rule and I think that’s where it served us well with another situation where last April raised another 100000000 after having raised 100000000 shortly before that. And same thing we all know what happened last year you know venture funding is is down by by massive amounts. Um, everyone’s speaking of of recession with the first bank runs already and and I think we could also like face the current phase just with ah of a very healthy cash balance and just allows us to go through.

Daniel Khachab: Through different situations for a long long breath if required.

Alejandro Cremades: I Love that always say prepare for the worst and hope for the best man I like that that mentality now for the people that are listening to um.

Daniel Khachab: Oh.

Alejandro Cremades: To really get ah an idea on the scope and size of choco today I mean anything that that you can share in terms of maybe number of employees or anything else that you feel comfortable sharing.

Daniel Khachab: Yeah, absolutely so so a bit about 400 people we operate um across 7 countries that is us Uk and essentially larger countries in Europe we had caught it in Berlin our second largest officer in Chicago and in and and and in Paris but with around 12 offices. We process far over over a billion. Ah euro worth of goods and that the several hundred Thousand tons of food. Um Nea we have and tens of thousands of restaurants on the platform we have around fifteen Thousand suppliers on the platform that is. Close to every second supply across Europe and the Us. Um, so it’s been a wide ride.

Alejandro Cremades: That’s impressive. So imagine you go to sleep tonight then and you wake up in a world where the vision of Choque is fully realized what does that world look like.

Daniel Khachab: Yeah, so I think the first thing it looks like is you know by we will have 0 food waste and or close to 0 food waste and and the effects of this are massive because it means. We’ll have a much greater shot at at reaching our our climate change goals ah global global warming goals of one and a half degrees that also means more money arrives with the producer and as we said before you know with 540000000 producers on the planet mostly in the. Emerging countries on the planet so more money arrives there. so that’s so that’s a major poverty ah relief. It also means that we will be able to to grow more diverse foods right today. We only grow 150 species. Um, that are commercially relevant. Um. And 3 species make up 60% of world food production. It’s rice ah maizee and and and weed and that has a couple of negative ripple effects because we you know degrade our soil always always take a se new chance out of out out of the soil and and by creating a food system that is more profitable. We also be able to to grow more. Biodiversity um, and ah and I think lastly hopefully we can also build mechanisms that um promote more seasonal more regional um consumption of food.

Daniel Khachab: Um, so reduce kind of kind of foot miles. So yeah, um I think it’s a very. It’s a very large endav. Yeah, and it’s it’s probably going to take us another of 15 years but like that’s what we hear for.

Alejandro Cremades: Well hey that looks like a beautiful world to me Daniel so good stuff now for the people that are listening that will love to reach out and say hi. What is the best way for them to do so I love that.

Daniel Khachab: Write me an email Daniel Atchoko Dot com.

Alejandro Cremades: Daniel Khachab: iel it has been such an honor to have you with us today. Thank you so so much for taking the time.

Daniel Khachab: Um, thank you so much for your time Alicando appreciate it.

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