In the ever-evolving landscape of entrepreneurship, success stories often carry the essence of grit, innovation, and a commitment to core values. Bruce Ballengee, the founder of Pariveda Solutions, has crafted a thriving company and cultivated a unique approach to business.
Pariveda Solutions has acquired businesses like Sustena, Thought Ensemble, and Softagon.
In this episode, you will learn:
- Pariveda Solutions’ success stems from its commitment to developing individuals into problem-solving architects and advisors.
- The adoption of the ESOP model ensured the longevity of Pariveda’s culture, steering clear of traditional acquisition pitfalls.
- Bruce Ballangee’s transition from CEO to Director reflects a strategic move to adapt to the evolving needs of the organization.
- The company’s resilience during economic downturns and commitment to integrity created a stellar reputation, leading to sustained growth.
- Pariveda’s unique philosophy challenges the traditional transactional approach, focusing on reframing problems and proposing practical solutions.
- The journey from a small consulting firm to a thriving company with 700 employees serves as a beacon of success in entrepreneurship.
- Pariveda’s innovative approach to people development, starting from college campuses, has resulted in numerous success stories, with college hires becoming vice presidents within a few years
For a winning deck, see the commentary on a pitch deck from an Uber competitor that has raised over $400M (see it here).
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About Bruce Ballengee:
Bruce Ballengee, based in Texas, United States, is currently a Founder and Director at Pariveda, bringing experience from previous roles at Pariveda Solutions, RevTech Ventures, BlueAvocado / (re)zip Reusable Storage and Texas State Audubon.
Bruce Ballengee holds a 1979 – 1981 MBA in Finance and Economics at the University of Chicago.
With a robust skill set that includes Business Strategy, Mentoring, Telecommunications, Analysis, Business Analysis, and more, Bruce Ballengee contributes valuable insights to the industry.
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Read the Full Transcription of the Interview:
Alejandro Cremades: All righty hello everyone and welcome to the dealmaker show. So today. We have a very exciting guest I guess that half a that has literally you know build a company from nothing you know to over seven hundred employees I think that we’re going to be really learning a lot. You know finding his journey very inspiring. And again, you know we’re going to be talking about all the good stuff that we like to hear you know the turnarounds at the abs the downs. Um, you know, ultimately doing certain things you know like maybe you know I got them ahead of their skis. You know back in 2012 on what they did to be able to to overcome. You know those saying those hurdles. And then also you know like how they groom and develop. You know their people too which is very interesting so without fardo. Let’s welcome. Our guest today Bruce Ballingee welcome to the show.
Bruce Ballangee: Male. Thanks Alejandro and all all you folks out out there.
Alejandro Cremades: So originally born and raised in Texas so gisa walked through memory lane. How was life growing up.
Bruce Ballangee: Well, it was quiet I mean I was in South Texas Corpus Christi which is not that large a ah city and very ah you know it’s very quiet. It’s like 3 blocks from salt water. So it was fun. you you know throw your fishing gear and. Nets and stuff in your baskets on your bikes and ride your bikes to a place where you could fish and that was you know that was the great escape thing. Yeah for it for our friends. Yeah, yeah.
Alejandro Cremades: So so so out of all things you know I mean for you it was It was really straight out of college. You just went at it. You know at the grad school so you didn’t even wait. Ah, what really got you into finance and economics and and also business.
Bruce Ballangee: Correct.
Bruce Ballangee: Yeah, so yeah, when all hower I earlier. Yeah I had planned to go in and into banking and that was from getting advice from upper classmen because I really didn’t. Know for sure what I wanted to do when I went to college I did know I didn’t want to do some things and when I talked to them like oh you should do economics. You know that sounds like it really fits you and there’s more money in finance. So do economics and finance and that led to you know that led to oh let’s do banking which led to oh you got to have an Nba to be a banker. I don’t know if you still do but back then you had to have an Nba. So yeah that that got me all the way to the end of her had school and then it was okay. Well now you need to find a job and du there are any number of banking jobs I interviewed with a lot of banks had a lot of offers and then this one company came along. That was into consulting and you know now called Accenture and I was like well this is interesting and I got hooked I mean they convinced me forget about banking come work for us and so that was my first first ten years with it just about.
Alejandro Cremades: I mean and and obviously consulting has been has been your thing. No so in this case, yeah a hundred percent so so in your case you know, accentor busal and Hamilton then you know you did sprint then going back to Accenture.
Bruce Ballangee: Yeah.
Alejandro Cremades: So what do you think you know needed to happen. You know, along those years for you to feel comfortable to start. You know what will be your first business.
Bruce Ballangee: Well, it’s a great. Yeah, it’s a great question and and so essentially I was gonna ultimately I wanted to have my own bank but when I was in consulting I was like oh this is kind of different I didn’t really think about that. But when I had gone back I left sprint and gone back to Accenture and the. Three cios I had worked for at Sprint had all left. They were different telecom companies different rbox and long distance companies around the us and they were you know they were all each 1 trying to recruit me and I didn’t want to do that but I was willing to consult and so that’s what convinced me was. Okay, they they all have work for me and and so there’s this concept of being called to start a business which I think was partveed I was called to start a business but this was a little different someone’s picking up the phone and saying I have business that I want you to do right. So a different kind of being called so I was called to to do it and it made it an easy an easy launch right? It was it was just easy and in that sense to have your have work lined up. You know have a backlog right out of the gate with former bosses. You know it doesn’t get much easier than that people. People that you already know how to work with and satisfy.
Alejandro Cremades: So then ah what point does the whole idea because I mean you were you were for quite a bit in the corporate you know side of things I mean you were hitting an I t department for sprint you know after accentor then going back to accentor as a cto there for 1 of the companies that they have bought. But then eventually you know you start taking a look and and you go at it you go at it with ultimately your own business. You know which that would become dolphin international. So how was that first rodeo like.
Bruce Ballangee: So.
Bruce Ballangee: But last we said that long that start was very easy I mean I mean being on the road five days a week was a grine like back back in the booze Allen and Accenture you know Accenture days with a young family so that was hard but the family was like you know. It’s good right? You’re making you’re paying the bills and a little bit more so. No worries about about that. But it was it was kind of one of the things that we going to scale this going to scale this or do something else. And ah eventually it was no I’m not going to scale this and so I’m kind of joined Tactica which was called technical tactic a technology group at the time another small company but larger yeah larger than mine we had tens of employees versus ah in effect a couple. That dolphin so in the hard part. The hard part was the lack of human interaction and just being yeah working with customers but not having a team not having much of a team. Yeah, that was to me important I like I like having teams.
Alejandro Cremades: So then tell us about the merger too because you did a merger there. You know that accelerated things no on the growth side on the revenue side and and also how that leads to ultimately the acquisition on the sell side. So how did you engineer all of that.
Bruce Ballangee: Um, yeah, yeah.
Bruce Ballangee: It was ah I mean because it was such a small 2 small organizations right? There was a lot of handshaking and very little and very little that and essentially agreeing on a number of shares you know and ah agreeing on a number of shares and proceedings there but it was a great I mean it’s a great start. Um, was able to double double our revenue of the new company in the in the very first year I mean some of it was revenue coming over but most of it was opening new opening new accounts and the the timing was good. It was is a good time in the it space. It was a good time particularly in Texas. And in Texas is was doing a lot of expanding and spending a lot of money on it and the large companies. It’s so just a great time to to do that and because we were able to accelerate our growth and massively increase our revenue we were able to basically start to position for yeah, an exit. Ah. Of that of that company.
Alejandro Cremades: So how was how was it like to see the full cycle. You know at that point when the company ends up getting acquired by Hitachchi and and then you’re looking back and you know and and having that gotten that transaction done I mean what? what did that? What did this? what disability do you get from? you know the full cycle of buildings.
Bruce Ballangee: Um, and.
Alejandro Cremades: You know, scaling and exiting a business.
Bruce Ballangee: Well I think the key takeaway for me for me was and I was resistant to to selling to ta mean we did and all that I wouldn’t I wasn’t a fan of that I think I was validated I Yeah do what happened in the market and all that sort of stuff. Um, it’s just a very is the beginning of a very tough time. The tech record already started and so ah yeah to me a lot of it was okay, the things people promise and what’s written down on contract on contractual paper and legal paper.
Bruce Ballangee: Doesn’t necessarily mean much that was the key that was the key lesson out of that deal. You know for ah for me and I think for most of the other shareholders of ah yeah of of Tactica I think we had probably a similar.
Alejandro Cremades: So.
Bruce Ballangee: Experience and it was’ it wasn’t a attachchi’s fault. It is the it was the tech wreck it was just a very you’re selling at a peak. You’re you’re selling at the you know after the peak a attachchi needed our revenue to meet their revenue target from Tokyo right. Had to do acquisitions and they were given money to acquire. But there is you know things were contracting and so we were kind of walking right into that we were very stable. We were actually growing a little a little bit even in that market ourselves. But we were much smaller. Yeah, so it’s just.
Alejandro Cremades: So so obviously stuff happened but the transaction you know did happen and then you end up becoming the cfo there. You know doing some ah cleaning ah that some house house house cleaning that you needed to do during the time there.
Bruce Ballangee: Ah happens. And yeah.
Bruce Ballangee: Um, yes, yes.
Alejandro Cremades: And at this point is when you start thinking about doing a ph d of your own you know, shifting directions and all of a sudden that’s when the company you know Parabita you know come say you know the idea comes knocking and why did you feel that the idea was meaningful in love and and how did you get? you know going on this.
Bruce Ballangee: Let’s drop.
Bruce Ballangee: Yeah, and and so having told people at Hatachi that there was a fairly large group of folks that I was working with not not more senior people. But you know junior folks more junior folks of course were so other senior management people. I was that was my plan my plan was to this was the spring and in the fall I was going to go? Yeah go off and get my doctorate and I wanted them to know they’d have time to plan because I knew a number of them weren’t going to stick around if I wasn’t there to kind of stop stuff from coming down on. Um. And ah, they were pretty excited about well if you’re leaving we want you to start a company and we went through so a variety of discussions. You know people would fly in from around the country. We’d meet on hatachi in Hatashi’s offices and and talk about it was some of the strangest stuff when you think about it I imagine it happens a lot a lot more than people. Probably thanked for stuff to happen like that and we went through a few ideas and they they really didn’t like any of them and they basicallyally said Bruce you don’t understand us. We need you to start a consulting company so we can come work with you which to me was I was being called. You know it was different different kind of calling. But actually called to start a company and I thought about it and and said okay you know, let’s let’s do this. We need to do it. They need to do it and even even if it’s a consulting company which I was kind of tired of doing consulting after yeah, a couple of decades of it.
Bruce Ballangee: It was like we can be different and so and and so that was the gestation of that where we were different and we are a different kind of consulting company than kind of your your typical your typical ones or the ones that we had grown up with so that was yeah that was basically the the gist of that. Yeah.
Alejandro Cremades: So so then how do you start developing the company I mean what were what were the early days like because I mean it was just the 2 of you at the beginning and and what was that journey like you know the early days.
Bruce Ballangee: Yeah, right? Yeah yeah, so I mean it was interesting that ah the other person that started had been had been fired and I had.
Bruce Ballangee: And their whole thing. It was an iffy proposition. You know should they quit their job and come work at this company and it was pretty iffy and I I told him I said look you know if you get fired I’ll quit and we’ll start a company together and so and we had gone through that’d they’ve been fired. And they were like it’s chill. You know we don’t you don’t need to quit and start a company I’m going to go off and I’m going to do these things chill right? Good right? They had their plan anyway doing a different kind of consulting. But when this happened it was like they were. You know we were the first 2 employees and so with the 2 of us it was. Because the other folks are like hey you need to get some work before we can kind of join you. We don’t we don’t have access to. We don’t have the relationships where we can go out and yeah drive business. But the 2 of us did and so we had I love to say we had a 1 page website. With our 5 core values which we yeah we still got the same 5 core values today and as I like to describe it. We went out and begged I mean we went to people that we knew who are in positions as buyers so see almost all sea levels. A few people that weren’t sea levels and in various companies. Not. Any you know? Well there’s a few fortune 500 size but most of them were so you know a billion to maybe a 100000000000 or so in revenue and we just talked to everybody that we knew and we told them look you know us before you know we’ve done great work for you and our other capacities as employees of other companies.
Bruce Ballangee: Now we’ve got our own company and you know you know we can do good work and of course it wasn’t a great time. This was 2003 the the bottom of you know the bottom of the tech wreck so to speak. Ah, the lowest employment level of I t ah people. Yeah, on a percentage basis probably in the history of the industry and and so ah, many times they were like whoa love to. But you know there’s just nothing but eventually that we we had some people who said I’ve got I remember the very first one I’ve got a $20000 project. You can do can’t promise you anything else, right? That’s it. That’s it I’ve got this one software selection I got twenty k budget to for it I can give it to you and we were just like thank you or thank you and that was you know that was in month three and we were off you know off to the races by the end of the first year first twelve months we were done a million dollars in revenue but it was yeah because things started payoff meetings that before had been I don’t have anything for you. People were calling back and saying now. Yeah now now I’ve got a project right? and I really want you to do this and so it yeah. It’s just a very good It’s a real It’s a real good story. It’s a real testament to having strong trusted relationships with customers.
Alejandro Cremades: So then so then for the people that are listening to get it. You know what ended up being the business model of Peribeta How are you guys making money.
Bruce Ballangee: Well I would say you know in a very traditional sense right? We supply people to do project work mostly building custom software but a whole variety of of things but mostly you know, mostly that probably 80% in that sense I would say. Where we’re different different is we think in terms of the long game so which has to do and this may be a bit of a seggue but just saying it’s really important I mean what’s different about part of it is part of our whole focus is on developing people to their highest potential which is clearly employees. But also clients and beyond that you know paryveda as an entity our clients companies as as entities, but it’s primarily the you know the individual and so there’s a whole concept of lifetime relationships which I was kind of alluding to earlier. The. The idea of a lifetime relationship of not thinking about things transactionally but doing things in terms of what is in the best long-term interests of us you know and that person and then our company and and their company and it’s ah. It’s a whole different way of thinking about things and and it’s if you wind up turning down some work I mean there’s stories of turning where you know people would say I really want you to do this project. Whatever I’ve got hundreds thousands dollars set aside for this project and I’m being there and I’d say well.
Bruce Ballangee: You know if you insist we could do that but have you thought about have you thought about this like you basically I’ll be making the case think about reframing this what you think is a problem reframing it and it may be that it’s this other thing that you know we could fix for. $50000 and several times that you know that would happen. Well that builds incredible reputation and trust actually so you say okay well. So yeah, we we weren’t being very traditional and thinking about it eventually as ah as a transaction and you know. Hey they would love for us to do that project at that level of scale and we could do it really? Well, it’s like but but what you really need is this so. Let’s do that and what the result is in my experience. The result is you wind up getting ah an abundance of work from that. But both from that. That organization because they’re like these are people that we can trust yeah because they’re thinking about us first before they’re thinking about the deal and then of course reputationally as that word gets around and so you got people callingling that say I need you. Ah you know you don’t know me. Ah, you know, but I’m so-and-s so I’m a cfo of such such insurance company and I’ve heard about you and I need you to bid on this project or 1 of the most fascinating ones over the over the years was we’d started a little bit of work with a very large you know very large publicly traded company.
Bruce Ballangee: In 1 department and ah the procurement people for it found out about us and they were having an issue with their buyer. Yeah, thereby or not their vendor not the vendors but they had an rfp and the buyer the person with the money.
Bruce Ballangee: Were having great difficulty with him said this isn’t right? The procurement was saying and this isn’t right, there’s something wrong there’s something wrong here let’s get the pariveda folks to bid on it and so they’re calling us right before the finals. Yeah and saying will you this procurement will you. Propose you know and it from ah other people in the company. We. We heard the story right? Like why this is weird. You know it’s procurement and it’s at the end and why is this happening and so we said okay, we’ll do it right. If only because we need to honor our relationship with this company and so we did it. We got huge thank yous from procurement. Of course the people were like because we showed a hold a different way of doing it and and challenged. You know waste a lot of challenge about why the way that they wanted to do. It wasn’t going to work which procurement was like thank you, we can do something off here and you just explained it to us. But of course we lost right? because the buyer was the one that got to decide but I’ll just tell you that over. Over the next three or four years we had millions and millions of dollars of business with the backing of procurement because we had done that. Yeah.
Alejandro Cremades: That’s amazing now 1 thing that thing. Obviously you guys say started scaling this thing nicely and you grew this all the way to 700 employees today I mean what do you think is the ultimately the the recipe.
Bruce Ballangee: Um.
Alejandro Cremades: Or the ingredients that needed to be in place for you guys to to grow the organization The way that you did.
Bruce Ballangee: Yeah, yeah, there’s probably ah I mean there’s any number of components like any other company. Ah I do think our our secret sauce is thinking about things a little differently so most. Thinking in the business world is based on the concept of scarcity you want to have a scarce thing that’s a scarce thing is a valuable thing. It’s just true. There’s no no denying it and in professional services. The general thinking is work is scarce there only some there’s only so much work out there. That’s going to go. To bid or that would be offered to you know a third a third party somebody outside the company or are they going to fund the project or not yes or no, if yes, then they may do it internally if ah if not if not internally then they’re going to go outside and there’s yeah, all that sort of stuff. And so work is scarce so the way. Ah we think about it is no, there’s actually an infinite amount of work out there. There’s there’s only so much money at any given time. But there’s an infinite amount of work because we the world will always have problems I mean the world always needs. Solutions. Challenge is when things are good and versus things are bad. It’s like when things in our industry and professional versus means people had a lot of ideas about solutions they wanted or problems they had and the world changed the economy goes down the industry’s in trouble something upset that company and they say whoa. We have to reprioritze.
Bruce Ballangee: And they go look at their list of problems that they were going to go solve. They say well yeah, we can’t justify funding any of this because they have the wrong problems. It’s not like there aren’t problems. They have the wrong problems. They don’t have stuff to do so what scarce are people. Who can correctly identify the problem by reframing. Yeah, the the context and determine what the the actual problem is and then coming up with a practical solution to solve it. So our whole recent etra is we want we are that problem solver. So we’re that one that figures figures that out you know and if you need ah a $50000 solution instead of a half million dollar one that’s what we’re going to propose and similarly it could be the other way which people don’t want to customers. Don’t want to hear that but we’re going to give you the straight poop. You know as we as we see it and so and that’s scarce. So if if you think about all the effort that has to be to develop someone from early in their career usually right out of school if you think some you may not hire them there but that’s where they started someone hired him. And developing them quickly into this ninja problem solver. You know this architect advisor ah persona that’s tough and no one’s really cracked. Yeah, no, 1 ne’s really figured that out entirely I think we figured out a lot and that’s our.
Bruce Ballangee: And so that’s our thing and 1 of the one of the things that they know we’re particularly proud about is we so we so when we started the company. We knew we wanted to go to college campuses and hire young people for the first job That’s part of why we were doing software development because you can convince clients that it’s okay to have a new college hire programming something and then you got to develop them into this architect advisor that can walk into a boardroom and yeah, do their magic and that takes. It takes time and that so we started. We started a company you know in lao 3 and of 6 we were on campus I was 7 they you know they were showing up and ah 1920 ish we started having our first college hires become vice presidents. So. That’s a huge thing and I mean there’s so many companies that never even if they hire college hires that none of them ever become a vice president or partner in their firm and’s and then you just think about the percentages like ah at a big firm like the one I used to be at in other large firms. There’s. There’s kind of these I would call them kind of jokes or dry humor where you’re in the yeah in the introductionary and you’re there’re all these people in the room and you’re all being onboarded and someone might say something like look to your right look to your left and you know 50 people that way 50 people that way and said.
Bruce Ballangee: 1 of you will become a vice president or 1 of you will become a partner. It’s just the systems aren’t geared to deal with that shortage of the problem solver. The problem solver is the shortage not the problems right? It’s anyway.
Alejandro Cremades: Yeah, no, no I get it and and now in terms of the structure of the company. You know it’s quite a unique structure. You know be a esop you know where the employees have the ownership. So so tell us about this.
Bruce Ballangee: Yeah, so.
Bruce Ballangee: Yeah, that was it goes back to the beginning of ah of part of it and the’s probably scarred by the experience of going through very you know, being acquired and yeah, all that sort of stuff and I came to I know this is. Horrible sacrilegious thing to say but to me selling selling your company is a bit like k killing it. Yeah because it’s in professional services. It’s not going to exist anymore that culture I mean there’s rare cases where you’re being acquired by a tiny company and you the larger one and your culture survives this. That happens but typically your culture might make an impact but he often doesn’t ah in that process and so your company really is going away. It’s great to celebrate it right? You get to go everywhere and talk to everybody. Everyone wants to hear about how you sold your company. It’s great success but it’s kind of sad and. And if you’re trying to develop people to their greatest potential. You can’t do that in 10 years or 15 years It’s a whole career thing and so you need to be thinking about being around for a long time and so to me that was one of the conditions that I set when back when it was hey we want you to start a company of us didn’t work for. That was one of my 2 primary conditions was we must be in eesop and if for sure it was well. What’s an eessop. They never never heard of it and I told them and they were like okay that’s okay, right? Ah, and so we became we start no three but is comic book. Are we going to make it or not. We don’t know and it costs money to be an eesop. So.
Bruce Ballangee: You know six we said we’re making it right? We’re going to campuses. We’re making it and so ah, January seven we became. We became an esop and so and so there’s this idea about to me. So again. People will say oh this terrible thing say but think about you know and Aessop doesn’t get tired. And Esop doesn’t say I want my money because I’m want to go sail on a yacht ah I went to a golf all day or wherever pick your pick your you know hobby right? that they’re just tired to esa that. Yeah, they’re in and an aimmate object. They can just go on and on forever and so that has that aspect of longevity and of course there’s this other thing about then everybody in the company winds up with with ownership I mean you have to do 1000 hours of work I mean there’s some various erisa requirements right? but pretty much.
Alejandro Cremades: Yeah.
Bruce Ballangee: You don’t have to be long very around very long in a company. That’s an aesop company to start becoming and having shares they’re held in. Trust yeah for you and so that’s ah you know it’s a very powerful. You know it’s a very powerful concept and it fits again with this developing people to their highest potential.
Alejandro Cremades: So so so back in 2023 in April you know you were grooming you know people to to really make it to to leadership. You know, part of that a sense of ownership and and groom them all the way from college to to senior roles.
Bruce Ballangee: The owner and the owner mentality right? So that was that.
Bruce Ballangee: Yeah, yeah, but.
Alejandro Cremades: But in April you decide that it’s time to step down or step up and then you became you know director in the company. So what a wild day. An incredible journey that you’ve had Bruce now over the course of 19 years you know really at the reins of the company that you builded from nothing. No I guess say. Now if I was to put you into a time machine and I bring you back in time you know to that moment back in 2003 where where you were thinking about you know, starting this business if I give you the opportunity of having a chat with that younger self what would that tell what would you tell that younger self before launching.
Bruce Ballangee: Um.
Alejandro Cremades: The business and why.
Bruce Ballangee: Ah, yeah, I’d say some of the things with things I kind of knew but would not want to admit to like you know it’s not going to come. It’s not going to play out the way that you think it is I still learn that lesson regularly in many ways all the time right. But that was a big one I’ll I mean I’ll I can sure I mean like we’re about 150000000 in revenue ish you know when we started the company with a slightly different idea of the model where we’d wind up. My envisioning was in 20 years we could be at half a billion well we’re not close I mean in some ways we’re close I mean there’s not a huge difference in scale there. But if say oh that’s 3 times. It’s like yeah we’re third, that’s a big difference and there’s a lot of things that go into that but I remember that was one of my that was one of my things because I was like yeah you know to as part of the longevity and part of the sustainability of it. You kind of and professional services. 150 is pretty good, but really the sweet spot in terms of sustainability is probably around half a billion to a billion which means you’re going to be a global you know, global and all that sort of stuff so that was part of it and we’re not. You know we’re not We’re not close. We’re clearly on the way but we’re not close to that.
Alejandro Cremades: I Hear you.
Bruce Ballangee: Obviously you get some outside money and we could go on an acquisition. You know we could get some outside money we could go acquire people That’s normally the way it’s done. Ah, we’ve done some very yeah yeah.
Alejandro Cremades: Yeah, but I mean remarkable the fact that you guys were able to ah really bring this from nothing you know and and and raising nothing. You know to seven hundred employees one hundred and fifty million in revenue hats off to you to the team. You know to everyone at paribbi I and te. And Bruce for the people that are listening that will love to reach out and say hi. What is the best way for them to do so.
Bruce Ballangee: Well my work email Bruce Bruce Stopp balance you at partyvaders solutions.com is great. Um, if you send me an email. You’ll get my. You’ll get my cell phone which is ah if I’m gonna put that out for for all.
Alejandro Cremades: Well hey well or easy enough is enough easy he enough Bruce so it is a easy.
Bruce Ballangee: Yeah, got to work. You got to work for the cell phone number. But ah.
Alejandro Cremades: Ah, you say you know boy hey Bruce thank you so much for being on the dealmakerr show today. It has been an honor to have you with us. Thank you.
Bruce Ballangee: All right? All Huntra was a real pleasure. Thank you for reaching out.
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