Boris Manhart On Co-Founding A $1 Billion Unicorn And Now Funding And Supporting Other Startup Founders

In the vast landscape of entrepreneurship, Boris Manhart stands as a beacon of inspiration, his journey marked by a profound connection to his roots, a passion for psychology, and an innate entrepreneurial spirit.

Boris has co-founded several companies, including Pulp, CodeCheck, Numbrs, eye media, and Growth Unltd. Growth Unltd. invests in startups, providing early-stage funding. It also has a social investment fund called the Growth Impact Fund.

In this episode, you will learn:

• Boris Manhart’s connection to his Swiss roots shaped his entrepreneurial journey, emphasizing the impact of upbringing on one’s professional path.
• The transition from psychology student to entrepreneur revealed Boris’s instinctive drive towards unconventional ventures and paved the way for his diverse career.
• The accidental success of Pulp and its subsequent sale led Boris to establish eye media, offering insights into the challenges and transformative lessons of the early Internet era.
• Boris’s journey through Numbers showcased the highs of fintech entrepreneurship, including pitching to banking executives and the subsequent realization of unicorn status.
• As the CEO of CodeCheck, Boris delved into the challenges of merging sustainability with commerce, highlighting the company’s impact in the German-speaking markets.
• The challenges faced during the pandemic prompted Boris to reflect on CodeCheck’s business model, leading to the creation of Growth Unltd.—a platform offering support to early-stage founders.
• Boris’s candid reflections underscore the importance of work-life balance, personal health, and cherishing moments with loved ones, offering profound insights for aspiring entrepreneurs.

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About Boris Manhart:

Boris Manhart is a serial entrepreneur and the founder of Growth Unltd, a company that helps scale your business. He was previously involved with CodeCheck and Numbrs, and studied for a couple of years at the Universität Zürich.

Boris is actually a university dropout: he quit after two years of studying to co-found the communication and promotion agency eye media/Compresso AG, which he ended up leading for ten years.

When looking back, he thinks a university education may give you a good background, but it’s only some of what’s necessary to turn you into a successful entrepreneur.

Despite having co-founded Numbrs and Compresso AG, Boris has also been the external CEO at several companies, namely CodeCheck and TRIQ.

This can sometimes be a challenge because founders typically look at their startup as their baby and have a very hard time establishing emotional distance and creating space for someone else to come in and take things in a new direction.

Connect with Boris Manhart:

• Crunchbase
• investera
• LinkedIn
• X

Read the Full Transcription of the Interview:

Alejandro Cremades: Right? Hello everyone and welcome to the dealmakerr show so that we have ah a founder you know that he’s done it all you know he’s done it day multiple times he’s built unicorn companies and then now he’s really you know after reflecting on his say career as a very um. Successful founder. He’s now you know, giving back. You know, really investing and helping other founders as well. So we’re going to go through everything I think that you’re going to find this episode very inspiring so without further. Do let’s welcome our guest today Boris Manhart welcome to the show.

Boris Manhart: Thank you so much for having me alicandro. It’s great to be here. Thanks a lot.

Alejandro Cremades: So originally born right? outside of seich so give us a walk through memory lane. How was life growing up.

Boris Manhart: Well imagine huge playground lots of green lakes forest mountain view and that close to to the city of zric. So um, it was great. It was great. Growing up here. My parents were teachers so they had a lot of time we traveled a lot in Europe. Um, so um, yeah I really like to to grow up here and actually move back. So I live again here close to my mother’s house. So my kids grew up the same way as I did.

Alejandro Cremades: So eventually you went to the University of Surik to and you got into psychology out of all things why psychology.

Boris Manhart: Ah, probably I wanted to understand myself a little better I remember that you know, especially as a kid that was always a little bit different and um I always have this very kind of you know, like free spirit is probably something that led me into this. Um. Entrepreneurial career I did and afterwards. but um but I guess like many others you know like you basically try to treat yourself and go into psychology. But anyway um I remember like the first day I was sitting there I asked myself the same question. So I I really couldn’t imagine doing this for the next five years so what I did basically at university I but I worked on 1 hand so I worked as a waiter um so I did a lot of night shiftfts and I like to go out. You know, did a lot love clubbing and that. Coincidence actually led me to my first venture. So I you can imagine as ah as a young um um, student. You don’t have the money to go out every night or at least couple of times a week right? You’ll have to the the money to pay the drinks and so forth. But they wouldn’t even let you enter at the clubs. So um, what we did is we created this website. It’s called pulp back then and we wented to the clubs took pictures of the party crowd and put them the next day on this website and imagine this was this is really early.

Boris Manhart: At the early um days of internet. This was the mid 90 s 96 probably something like that and um, well it got a little of traction so people would go on the website um was all pre-social media right? So they really liked them. Basically seeing themselves on their own website somewhere and um, we did this for a couple of years so we always went to the clubs took pictures put it on the website and and people will come and probably regre that to I would say let’s say a couple of thousand users. Wasn’t a lot right? So but back then it was enough. We were lucky enough to to actually sell it then to a big corporate and they were interested in using that for advertising so um zoi.

Alejandro Cremades: How how old were you at that time. How old were you at that time.

Boris Manhart: It was around um 20 in my early twenty s.

Alejandro Cremades: I mean it’s pretty wild to be at that age and doing a transaction with Unilever so how did the whole thing with unileverer you know happen? How did they come knocking.

Boris Manhart: Well, they had this brand called X I don’t know if you know that but it’s ah it’s a theodo end brand and they were focusing on the party scene right? and they thought it’s a great idea to to have something like like something we did and um so they. Basically um, um, purchased the the website and and helped us as Well. Then to start the next venture which which was Imedia Um, a online agency right? so together with basically the first customer. We. We started our own own online agency then after that.

Alejandro Cremades: What would you say that you know being able to do first company first exit doing a transaction with someone like unil over what what kind of basicability. Do you think that that gave you into the whole fundraising process I mean fundraising process the lifecycle more than fundraising person. The lifecycle of you know, starting. Building scaling and exiting.

Boris Manhart: Like underder I really have to admit that at this stage we didn’t even consider the thing we did as a startup right? So it was more a project. It was really for fun and we sold it by coincidence. So with that transaction I actually got into business.

Alejandro Cremades: Yeah.

Boris Manhart: Right? So everything before was just um, let’s say side hustle. Um, it was really about parting. It was really about getting into those clubs and then it became serious because we suddenly had this big Customer. We had to deliver and um I Honestly I was. Very young at this stage and was probably not ready to really lead a company and and you know build a a team and so forth right? So I was struggling a lot at this at this stage and the other thing would Happen. You know, still remember you know then pretty, you were pretty close to the whole. Burst of the Internet Bubble. So Basically that happened when we started our company Our internet company right? and we actually were acquiring other customers so we had a hard start and this was you know like basically my first um I would say steps into the business world. And um, yeah, it wasn’t easy back then.

Alejandro Cremades: So Obviously after this you started the ad agency. So I Guess say you know the ad agency what kind of um, you know learnings did you get from because I find that there’s a lot of companies that build this stuff and they are hoping that people will come. As as you were doing the ad agency. You know I’m sure that that gave you further insights into building Distribution. You know, getting the right type of channels right? You know to be able to get more people in the door. You know at the best day possible price. What kind of insights that you get from from from doing that.

Boris Manhart: I think that’s right, that’s ah, it’s ah it’s a very good question. Onhondra I think um, it helped me to understand the whole accusation part as well because I was doing that for different brands and you know I just mentioned know the the internet bubble burst it and we had a. Tough start basically but we got some traction so we acquiredre customer like Microsoft nestly. Um, saw pmw so we had really good big brands basically working from them and um I think um, you know one of the learnings is really how to attract people. Um, to to do something right? So just you know like how to acquire customers out there. How to find our customers basically and that this is something I learned before I started. You know, basically bigger Ventureer. So this is something that really helped me and the other thing I would say um, it. Gave me some I would say tough lessons lessons on ah um, um, leadership because um I just got into that right? So I wasn’t prepared to relead a company to work with the whole team and so forth to um, you know, just um. Choose to write people within the team. So um I remember I was really a bad leader I was a micromanature I did everything on on on my own. Basically right? and my understanding of leadership was that I have to be better than the others right.

Boris Manhart: And this is something I learned that’s probably the biggest lesson I got from this this area is what is actually leadership. You know, like what is kind of empowering others instead of just doing it on your own or doing or try to doing it better. And really working with great people with great talent right.

Alejandro Cremades: I Mean no no, no kidding because that obviously was a really nice segue into the fintech incubator that you did so obviously at that point now it was more about taking a look at teams and and and putting them. You know with the right type of capital and and the right Perhaps you know product Market fit too. So. How how did you really?? ah think or or what did you get from seeing all the key ingredients. You know that are necessary for a startup to thrive I mean what were some of those ingredients that were critical for for something to really be magical.

Boris Manhart: Yeah, so ah, you mentioned already like product market fit is extremely important right? And um I I cannot you know like say how much it actually matters. It’s the most crucial point you need to achieve. To become successful basically and what does product market fit mean um, it meets building something your customers actually want and this is something lots of people are Misunderstand right? So lots of people actually start just building something what they think customers would like. Or what they like basically and um I see it very much actually happening in Europe probably more than in the us that um, lots of founders just build right? So to start with with the product wish and create something and then they just put it out on the market and then at this time. The realize there’s probably no mark for it or the the product should be totally different and um to prevent that I think it’s super important to really go deep when it comes to um, understanding your customer understanding their problems before you even start building and it would say. Would say this is one of the most crucial topics. Um, um, which is something I failed as well in my career in in kind of ah in many different phases and it’s hard to not just focus on building because I’m all founders and I assume you as well alhan you know what? I mean.

Boris Manhart: We’re builders right? We want to create something. We’re not market researches. It’s probably not the the nicest part of our work to always talk to people or do um, really kind of like reading all studies and whatever on the internet. So Really want to build something want to create something. So It’s It’s a hard part but it’s necessary.

Alejandro Cremades: So One of the things that came out you know from this experience too and it was a really nice segue to it as well was numbers. Ah probably 1 of the biggest the companies that you’ve done a company that ended up becoming a unicorn. So How did the whole idea of numbers say come together. You know with the team and. And how do you guys bring it to life.

Boris Manhart: It’s ah it’s an interesting story and this was actually right after a left armedia got an offer from from the original founder of um numbers or at this stage it goes central way. Um, so basically it was um, a fintech incubator a company builder and um, he just acquired a merge with an agency. So basically my first job was to restructure this agency and build a team that is able to create ventures. But we had this agency his agent was in very bad shape. We still had customers at this stage and we didn’t want to work for customer we want to work for our own ventures. Basically so my job job was actually which was pretty funny thing I had to get rid of the customers right? So. Um, and that meant you know I had to basically um, fix the projects and deliver what we but they were expecting so another agency could take over or basically the projects were ready for them to to start right? Um, so um. That was the first phase of the whole thing and then then after that we started with I guess 2 or 3 projects. Um I remember one was in insurances and the other was numbers and the idea of numbers was was to merge or was to aggregate different bank accounts.

Boris Manhart: And imagine at this stage you but this was around 2012 there was no mobile banking around. So this was pre-mobile bank and so we created actually the first mobile bank but um, a bank. That or basically mobile banking app that could aggregate all different banks so it doesn’t matter if it was deutche bank or or or a plus bank or whatever so you could just use all the accounts you had it would give you recommendations and a great overview over your spendingnings. So that was the basic idea and they got off traction especially from the invest side and I matching. Um, it was a really interesting time because ah at this in this time imagineing Switzerland was still the center of banking right. Um, and we pitched to like those you know, big guys of of banking the big executives back then and this was a very interesting experience because I never had contact with people like that.

Boris Manhart: And I started pitching to them with together with with with the founder Martin and I would say he’s probably the best salesperson I’ve ever met and learning from him was was great right. So it gave me a lot actually to pitch to these guys where I obviously had a lot of respect. Um, you know you saw you saw them in the newspapers and so forth but together with him. He was super brave. He was really wasn’t fearing anything. So um, so it’s great to learn from him and um. Ah, did this for not such a long times I guess it stayed less than two years at numbers. But um, they continue and and they they made it a unicorn. So I guess they raised around 120 or around 30000000 in in total of 2.

Alejandro Cremades: And what was the journey there of raising the money you know how did you guys get started and and what were the financing cycles like.

Boris Manhart: But the beginning is really like just um, you know, reaching out to to all those um finance guys. So we had a focus on angel investors at the beginning and then obviously became more institutional after a while we had as well investors like big. Ah, media media. Um, um, company in Germany and so forth so that different kinds of investors and it wasn’t the same landscape that it it is today. So today you have lots of we sees. It’s pretty clear who to talk to but at this stage he wasn’t that clear. Right? So we had to figure out so who’s the right fit for for such a topic. So we we start with um fin fair finance professionals basically.

Alejandro Cremades: So at the peak of the valuation. What was the valuation of the company 1000000000 that’s amazing for being in Europe you know, being able to achieve that is is really remarkable. So eventually you know like what you did is you moved on to become the Ceo of codeck.

Boris Manhart: Um, it was 1000000000 it was I guess straight 1000000000 yeah

Alejandro Cremades: And you know you were there is say you guys were leading sustainability in the ah in shopping you know, basically in shopping around shopping apps now.

Boris Manhart: Exactly so Codechick was an amazing experience. Um, again, imagine this was 2014 and now we have tons of impact in westers and sustainability is a big topic right? So it’s not just a topic anymore. It’s a need. But at this stage she was very nishy and I remember you know like after um numbers I took some time off and I helped my life to start the cosmetic brand we’re focusing natural cosmetics in in the luxury segment. And during my research I stepped over this website Kojack a lot of research I got back on this website all the time and back then it was more like an mep right? So ah, the website looked bright, basic and but it was enough for me and. Remember at 1 day they um, put a chop and or cho ad on the website and they were searching for a partner. So I thought that’s actually quite interesting because I was seeking for something with I would say more meaningful right? And um i. I called him up and we had a couple of meetings and after yeah, as well meeting there first in weststers I started as first as a managing partner in tenness Ceo and this was kind a journey because at the beginning river.

Boris Manhart: Ah, small um small community basically right there were a lot some some ah some um consumers that you know wanted to know what’s in their products be focused, many mainly on cosmetics and and food and the f basically would you know like tell you what’s inside. Right? If you basically scan ah the barcode of a product will give you all information on ingredients so that that puts the case of Koja and um during the years it grew to. I would say really go to shopping app in the german speaking markets so we had around at its peak. Probably 4 to 5000000 active users in the market of 100000000 total people right? So I was was was cover quite big. Actually. Were a couple of times the most downloaded app in in Germany and that includes Facebook and Google and so forth. Um, so was was a was a great journey. A really interesting journey. But um. But was really different to 2 numbers and the whole fintech sector like the whole fundraising was super tough right? So um, you know like we didn’t have a real business beside was was really just more an impact idea and we had to create the business around that.

Alejandro Cremades: So then at what point you know, do you decide? It’s time to ah make a switch here.

Boris Manhart: Um, well, um, we we had a couple of um of ah well we we race I Guess 3 times. Um, um, and we well be be had basically some funds. Um, but they remembered was ah At. Ah, during the pandemic when we really had challenges right? and I said more and more that you know like ah we didn’t really achieve product Market fit at this stage. We had lots of traction but the building this to pay from our consumers or from our users wasn’t big enough.

Boris Manhart: And we tried it with um you know like b two b and and this didn’t work as well. So we couldn’t really create a sustainable business model and I tried a lot I tried many different things and after why I just said you know I don’t have any ideas anymore. So let’s. Let’s bring in new people right? So and I left and people took over and they they tried as well and and after that I basically started reflecting on what I was missing right? Um why I didn’t really. You know, even though I had we had millions of users. Why it didn’t really become successful when it comes to when it comes to to business model and um and that’s basically where I started with my my new venture which is growth unlimited right? so.

Alejandro Cremades: So Let’s talk about that because obviously growth home Limited. You know is the result of um, you doing your reflection about your entrepreneur entrepreneurial journey you know taking a look at you know all the different um companies that you were involved with the companies that you saw the companies that you helped so. How did growth unlimited come together and and what are you guys doing there.

Boris Manhart: It was again is was was basically a coincidence because at the beginning I really started reflecting on my career I I guess I wrote everything down it was became like 150 pages or so I never published it I have to admit but I could publish it. So a book on um on um, venture building basically and I guess I detected 2 main areas where I could have needed more support and 1 was methodologism frameworks you can take ok ors or whatever. This always takes a lot of time to implement you start with something and this is startup. You don’t have the money to get consultants so you just do it and then you start iterating and especially when it comes to ok yours. This can take hs like probably you need for iteration. That’s a year. It’s not I’m not talking about weeks I’m talking about a year so you’re losing a lot of time on stuff that actually doesn’t add value to the whole thing right? doesn’t lead you to your goals and until you really. Feel the beauty of so I’m going to realize what but how how does it work. Um, you probably lost like at least let’s say half a year or so and um, this is something bare where I see you know it’s super important to get help from someone that actually knows it.

Boris Manhart: From the beginning to just implement it write from the store. Do it right? or understand it and the other thing is this typical operational channel that you get in as a founder. It doesn’t matter which which stage of the company. It’s the same at the beginning. I Mean when you start something New. You suddenly have so many hats on right? So Basically you’re the designer. You’re the engineer. You’re the psychologist. Whatever right? So you have to do things that you never thought of doing right and nobody just um, you know like. Can do this from Scratch. Nobody’s born with all those things or just study years for to to learn psychology to learn design. But ah, you just have to do it immediately and I guess here founders naturally need some help and as well need someone by their sides to you know like just. Sometimes get back on track because what but happens you know getting this this chunng. You don’t know where to go anymore where to hat anymore and um someone having someone by his side. Okay, take it just you know little build a little bit outside of this chun.

Boris Manhart: And tell you okay now focus on that only on that right? So that is very helpful Nobodys you have to Board. You probably have an advisory board but it’s always something where you have to seek for advice but you don’t have this person just by your side that really tells you okay. Now you need something different. You need to something to need to focus on something differently and that’s basically the main idea of growth and limited is really to be this person to help founders to find the right track to find focus and to do this in a very structured way as well.

Alejandro Cremades: And what’s the cycle that you guys would you? you would typically look at is it. They precede seed series A where do you typically like to come in.

Boris Manhart: Right? And we.

Boris Manhart: We even start earlier and that’s probably so a big issue in Europe I think you know like when it comes to the us you have very early investors but usually in Europe um, you need to prove a little bit more right. So there are some vcs that you know jump in in in pre-e or seeds age. But there’s nothing before so we basically we really like to work with founders with just an idea so really at the beginning so before they have a product before they’ve done. You know lots of things wrong. Right? And do all the iterations. So really want to help them and to guide them and do this in fast pace because I strongly believe that you can reach product market fit within a couple of months you don’t need to do this within years right? So you can achieve this much faster. But obviously you need. Um, to know what you do need to know steps right? and this is where we jump in.

Alejandro Cremades: So then I guess say us as let’s say you’re looking at all these different companies. What is typically the biggest issue or the repeating pattern that you see on on the thing that they’re lacking the most is it product Market fit.

Boris Manhart: Exactly I mean the the biggest issue is just building without the understanding the customer. So really creating something um for more for you than for someone else I Guess that’s um. Ah, very common Trap Lots of founders actually fall in right? So they they create their vision and they don’t really check if there’s a market for it. They don’t really understand the customer’s needs before that and I guess here you should really go deep. You Do you have to do your homework before you start building something right.

Alejandro Cremades: And how do you go deep? How do you go deep to really make sure that you get the customer that you are not building based on assumptions that you’re building based on data.

Boris Manhart: Absolutely I mean you you need to have assumption at beginning right? already. The market is an assumption but then you need to to start doing research. There’s a lot of research out there already so you don’t need to start from scratch. Um. But anyway I mean you need to talk to your customer. You need to find about their pains and that’s only something you can. You can find out when you when you do a lot of interviews basic at the beginning. So um, one thing there I usually start with is really kind of writing down. What’s. The most attractive mark to start with I’m not talking about to track in terms of market size. Obviously that’s that’s something you need to know. But then you need to really understand. Okay, what’s my niche where I want to start and and then basically it’s all about talking to people. You know inside of this niche and find out how you can serve them and already here. Lots of um and he basically they’re already the struggle star because um, you don’t know how to conduct interviews right? As a founder you don’t train with conducting interviews. So basically. But it often sees that founders sell their vision. It’s instead of an interview. They do a sales pitch but you should always start with the problem of your customers and understand the problems first and then create the solution so to read about your customers.

Boris Manhart: Tell you about their struggles about their problems and not you tell them about your solution. Basically right? So this is just.

Alejandro Cremades: Yeah I like that because because one of the things to that day that I found is founders when they’re speaking with customers too day and they’re trying to get some data from Them. You got you instead of like giving them too much guidance on their responses is basically making open-ended questions so you can just let them go now.

Boris Manhart: exactly exactly I think you know, especially when it comes to interviews. The challenge is more like leading. Um your interview in a direction of the topic you want to hear about right. But nothing more so you just you just you just guide them there but you don’t know you don’t kind of push them into a certain um answer right? So you just want to hear them talk basically so one good thing is you can really ask them about their journey. In x or y right? So just you know? Ah, how do you How how do you interact with um I don’t know healthcare right? and and just listen basically write everything down and honestly um Alejandra I’ve never seen a startup doing this really? well.

Alejandro Cremades: Yeah.

Boris Manhart: So always start with looking into the data when I start working with our founders and usually and everybody says okay I do the interviews I have my data but when you when you look into the data. It’s just not really valid. It doesn’t just doesn’t bring you anything right.

Alejandro Cremades: Yeah, so so let me let me ask you this. Let’s say I was to put you into a time machine and I bring you back in time maybe to the time that when you were coming out of University Of Zurrich and you were doing your psychology degree and let’s say.

Boris Manhart: Gives you false positive for negatives.

Alejandro Cremades: You now have the time to have a sit down with a younger self that younger bories and you’re able to give your younger self right before going at it as an entrepreneur one piece of advice before launching a business. What would that be and why given what you know now.

Boris Manhart: Well, that’s that’s you start really early, right? So um, well I mean one of I would say it’s probably 2 different advices. 2 different areas. 1 is ah the professional area and 1 ne’s more the personal area right? So when it comes to business. Always they would say okay go really deep when it comes to product market. And um, Don starts scaling because you have true product market fit. Um, you know it happened that I had to let go a whole sales team because I wasn’t able to.

Boris Manhart: Build a scalable sales playbook for Them. So What worked for me as a founder and has found you have all the information right? So It’s much easier to sell than for a sales representative right? So It’s different so you need to. To be able to brief them to give you give them the tools to be able to to sell so I had to let them go and they were obviously very pissed at me right? So and it was all my mistake I knew it and this is Unnecessary. So Basically really go deep. Understand before all the processes you need to understand it then start you know, scaling then start hiring and so Forth. So That’s an important thing and then as well and what I mentioned you know about leadership. Um, really understanding the leadership understand that leadership is about um.

Boris Manhart: Would say yeah, um, supporting others creating an environment where others can thrive where it can be their best. Um, um, um, or you know, really really kind of um and be productive. Um and give them the freedom as well. But align them on the goals right? Um I mentioned do cares for example and the other the other thing is um, a very personal topic right? So um I have to say yeah like this year was one of the hardest for me. Um, my wife got diagnosed with cancer the beginning of this year and she went through all the treatments. Um, she got um chemotherapy immunotherapy and nothing worked. She’s now at home I’m I’m I’m taking care of her. Um, but. You know, looking back and really thinking of the time I spent in the office I spent chasing my dreams I spent you know, creating the next unor. Whatever whatever. Um and not being at home not being with my loved ones. This is something I definitely would change and devvis. Younger me that what really matters is spending time with your loved ones spending time with your family having this you know good balance of um, um, career being professionals always obviously.

Boris Manhart: But as well of being with you with your loved ones and talking really about family and friends right? So The people that really matter to you. Another thing is well um, is about taking care of yourself right? My wife always said you know, um, but Metasmosis Health and obviously everybody says yes. But you only know what Health actually means when you don’t have it anymore right? It’s it super important as well to take care about yourself to do whatever sports meditation or whatever is is good for you right? but take time for yourself as Well. Um, during this whole journey.

Alejandro Cremades: Wow! This is a so profound Boris and and I think that you’re hitting you know the nail on the head you know I think that founders typically you know they just they just tend to leave everything you know to the side and just just just keep going like.

Boris Manhart: Exactly.

Alejandro Cremades: They’re hustling no mentalality that people would talk about and and I think you’re so right because at the end of the day you know, ah memories is everything that we’re going to be taking with us and companies you know, come and go. But ultimately your own family and friends you know is is really what make.

Boris Manhart: Um, true.

Alejandro Cremades: What make us you know who we are no and there was even a study of Harvard that talked about happiness and joy and how ultimately your social points was increasing ah that that well-being so Boris I am very grateful that you joined us obviously wishing.

Boris Manhart: Um, yeah.

Alejandro Cremades: Your wife as well. The best you know and and and a fast recovery and day and I just want to thank you on behalf of the listeners and also myself you know for for giving us the owner of of coming on the show and sharing your journey. So thank you so much for being on the deal maker show today.

Boris Manhart: Um, thank you very much.

Boris Manhart: Thank you so much Alekandra it’s pleasure.

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