Bård Anders Kasin is now on his second tech start. His most recent venture has already raised a substantial amount of capital to create a whole new category of tech-driven entertainment. The venture, PortalOne has attracted financing from top-tier financiers like Rishi Garg, Temasek Holdings, Coatue, and Founders Fund. Interested in sponsoring this show or podcast ads for your business? Go to Zencastr and fill out the contact information so Zencastr can help you, bring your business story to life.
In this episode, you will learn:
- The cons of being in stealth mode
- The new type of entertainment Portal One has created
- Bard’s top advice when launching a company
For a winning deck, take a look at the pitch deck template created by Silicon Valley legend, Peter Thiel (see it here) that I recently covered. Thiel was the first angel investor in Facebook with a $500K check that turned into more than $1 billion in cash.
The Ultimate Guide To Pitch Decks
Moreover, I also provided a commentary on a pitch deck from an Uber competitor that has raised over $400 million (see it here).
Remember to unlock for free the pitch deck template that is being used by founders around the world to raise millions below.
About Bård Anders Kasin:
A serial entrepreneur with a rare blend of business, technological and creative expertise. He is a pioneer in the use of 3D graphics and innovative new techniques in movies, games and TV. As a technical director at Warner Bros., he worked on some of the largest movie productions in history, such as the Matrix trilogy. He also supervised international television, high-end digital cinematography, augmented reality and media projects.
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Read the Full Transcription of the Interview:
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Alejandro: Alrighty hello everybody welcome to the deal maker show. So today. We have a very exciting guest with us today. You know I guess that they literally got hired to work on the matrix movies just at the age of None years old and today he’s making it happen with his company. So I think that. We’re gonna be learning a lot about building scaling financing and all of the good stuff that we love to hear go ahead. Oh god he was 16 go ahead. Ah.
Bård Anders Kasin: Along or it can I interrupt. Yeah I think I I did not get a job when I was 16 by the way. Ah yeah I that that’s when I started working I was about ah 20 when I or 21 when I got the job at wonderport.
Alejandro: Okay, I’m glad let you to that. So yeah I mean let me let me let me go in here. So no, so what we we’ll cut that out. So hello everyone welcome to the deal maker show. So do we have a very exciting guest with us today. You know a guess that is Goingnna tell us you know how we got started. You know working in the matrix movies.
Bård Anders Kasin: So just can have ice like.
Alejandro: And then from there really building scaling financing all the above when it comes to you know running a hypergrowth company so without further ado. Let’s welcome our guest today board Ands Cain welcome to the show.
Bård Anders Kasin: Thank you.
Alejandro: So let’s talk about growing up. You know in Norway you know in a small town there you know, give us a walk through memory lane. How was how was life growing up.
Bård Anders Kasin: It was pretty good. So I grew up in ah in a small town called Newton which is like yeah about None people so not very big but at least for me, it felt like an awesome place to to grow up and it has a really strong heritage when it comes to creating companies that have ah. Really impacted the world. So it was quite an inspirational place actually to to grow up.
Alejandro: And how did you get into the whole 3 d graphics.
Bård Anders Kasin: Yeah, so um, when I when I was in I guess it’s high school when I was 15 I got a job at this internet service provider because basically back then nobody wanted to die long distance to to get on the internet. So ah, every small city had their own like little. Ah. Internet service provider. So I learned how to run the the systems and eventually I downloaded this three d program that I found for linux and this was like just after you know drasic park had come out so nobody was really doing it and then um, one day at the Ceo of this bigger industrial company that had their kind of test. Facilities next door. He saw me fiddling around with this apahei helicopter that I had built in 3 d and he asked me like would it be possible to use this technology to visualize kind of our factories around the world and things like that and then I was 60 and then I was like yeah sure, no problem I can do that. So basically they yeah they hired me to do that. Um, and that’s how I started doing kind of 3 d professionally so was working you know right? after school every day I went to school got got to work about 2 p M or or NonePM and and worked until midnight just about every day throughout.
Alejandro: Now very cool that at the age of 16 I mean literally when you’re in the teenage years, you’re even being recommended to you know a big big franchise like Warner Brothers I mean how how does that happen.
Bård Anders Kasin: Ah, high school.
Bård Anders Kasin: Yeah, yeah, that was that’s an interesting story. So. So basically when I was working for this industrial company I had to at some point that I had to upgrade the the computer I was working on and back then you know it was super expensive to use these types of computers. It was a silicon graphics computer and. It was kind of out the reach for me, it cost about like $100000 um, but then I made this agreement with them that because they had these service agreements with silicon graphics because they had several where you would get replaced hardware and whatnot. So I ended up finding one in canada from I think it was coca-cola. Ad agency where they had 1 with a broken graphics card that were they were selling it for $7000 and I was still like way out of reach for for a 16 year old kid but I went to the bank and I said I have a job I have this agreement they they pay me I made agreement with them that they would cover the support agreement I called silicon graphics and I said. If I buy this. Will you guys basically replace the the graphics card and they were like yeah no problem. So I took a loan of $7000 I bought the computer they paid for the service agreement and I got the new graphics card and I had the computer that was worth $100000 that I basically paid 7000 for and. And you know the guys had silicon graphics they thought it was kind of funny because they had about 3 clients or something in norway where everybody was like a big billion dollar oil company and then then this kid who’s sixteen year old so that became a little bit of a talk I think internally and. Eventually they actually ended up sending ah a official recommendation letter on behalf of silicon graphics to warner brothers that they should hire me when I would I gotten a little bit older when I was 21 when they were looking for people for the matrix movies and and of course that helped a lot.
Alejandro: So then how do you go from just being in Norway to all of a sudden you know working for for this amazing movie in the Us.
Bård Anders Kasin: Yeah, so I moved to San Francisco and that was super exciting for me. Of course this was my big dream and and my passion and ah you know getting to work with the best people in the world. Basically so um, so I yeah I came there and and it was. Really horse. We say it was an amazing experience. But then I also saw um you know games technology being used for the very none time in in movie productions and kind of this created the what was say inspiration for me that you know at None time is going to be possible to. Actually do the things that we were doing in the movies with you know, like amazing visual effects and graphics. But they would take like you know 10,000 computers a week to render sometimes but I thought that you know at some point it’s going to be possible to do that real-time and then imagine if you can combine it with the interactivity of games. Ah, you know what type of experiences you could create from there. So. So basically then from there on like in every project I did I tried to incorporate that type of thinking and build out kind of those core building blocks that would enable that one day. So for the next twenty years probably I spent my time like. Trying to to push the boundaries on how to do that and up until the point where we are now where we are actually doing it.
Alejandro: And now in terms of like working in the matrix movies I mean how was that because I’m sure that your friends back home were like freaking out now like here’s our friend. You know they are working on this unbelievable like blockbuster movie with like piano reeves I mean that.
Bård Anders Kasin: Um, yeah, oh.
Alejandro: That’s insane I mean come on.
Bård Anders Kasin: Yeah, that was amazing for me at least like I was I think it was 21 when I moved over so it was it was very surreal felt like I was kind of living inside the dream in a way because that has that had been kind of the thing that I was dreaming of and yeah it was ah it was really awesome.
Alejandro: So so for how long were you doing that and and then at what point do you realize that it’s time to head back home.
Bård Anders Kasin: Yeah I was in San Francisco a little bit like on and off for about 2 years so usually like for three to four months at a time and then I was back home a little while um so before I decided that you know now. Um I want to pursue kind of the dream I have. So. That’s when I kind of moved back to my to my hometown again to to to work on kind of different projects for a while.
Alejandro: And obviously portal one What you’re doing now is you know has has been incubating and and and obviously is the result of you getting started with future grip first so tell us about future Grip I mean how did you you know come you know upon the idea and. And at what point do you realize? hey you know I think it makes sense for me to to take a look at at doing this thing. So.
Bård Anders Kasin: Yeah, so and so as I mentioned like I was in every project that I was doing I was incorporating this kind of live 3 d graphics type of production and I was starting to to work on on several Tv shows and and we will exploring like how come how can we use tech. Technology basically to push the boundaries and and do new things so through that process I was kind of starting to define a a vision of what I was trying to do um and I came to the point where I um, what you say. Um, wanted to to make that come real and I needed partners and needed the right people to help make I know I did not have any experience at that point with like financing or funding those types of things. So I um was introduced. To a financial which was a ah guy in the financial world here in Norway that became my partner and we basically set out to to create the the first company that ah future group where we were focusing on kind of. What we call interactive mixed reality which is basically like you know, pushing the boundaries of Tv adding that interactive element with the virtual graphics and being able to to be fully or to say immersed into a Tv show. Um so we built out the technology to do that. It didn’t exist at the time so we really had to. Really push the boundaries and develop a lot of the things that you know today is really taken for granted. There’s many great solutions and it’s a lot easier to do now. But back then it hadn’t been done before so it was a pretty big effort but we were able to do it and we launched the first like the world’s none interactive mixed reality show. Um, on Tv and it allowed us to really really learn a lot on like what works. What doesn’t crack the code on how to do it and and there was ah it was a really great learning process and of course we we were able to push the boundaries on what’s possible to do.
Alejandro: Because I mean at what point do you realize you know you, you’re pushing here with future grip and then you realize that you you need to think about taking a different approach I mean what? what? what cost that.
Bård Anders Kasin: Yeah, so um, so we came to a point where we had to make a decision on. Are you going to focus on b two b or b two c basically and so you know are you going after licensing the technology to Studios which can be really exciting or are you going after the kind of the. Say more like entertainment platform type of direction where you’re going after the the b two c like users basically um and we had some really great investors but in Norway when we started here we raised from you know, mainly like what you have in Norway which is oil and gas type of investors which can be really great, but. Um, of course they their experience lies in that more like say b two b type of approach. So basically what we concluded on was that you know okay, let’s focus on b two b for future grip that it could license that technology and and and focus on that while we were kind of then free to. To to go on and and do the b two c what you say run that we did so so we founded portal one in in None with the aim of building a social entertainment platform basically and you know we had a lot of experience. We knew what worked what didn’t and. It allowed us to really like just really like hit the ground running. We had great investors from day one and and it was a yeah, it was a really really good. Start.
Alejandro: Now. Well we’ll talk about Portal one in just one second here but with future group What you ended up doing is licensing. You know the the technology. So So how do you go about that I mean there’s probably a lot of people here. You know that are listening you know on on what you are saying and. And they’re may be like wondering like hey how they board you know, go about licensing and and and leaving that on autopilot kind of thing. So.
Bård Anders Kasin: Yeah, so ah so the and the licensing part is basically partnering with you know with studios around the world. So working with great partners and and and kind of using those channels. So. And of course that was something that was done after I left the company so they did a really great job on kind of converting to the b two b type of direction and you know to doubt today. It’s powering everything from like super bowl to league legends the world championship. You know Cctv biggest broadcaster in China not to. The weather channel if you’ve seen these immersive weather forecasts where they’re put into like hurricanes and tornado and things like that live on tv so um, so it’s it’s been like really just being adapted really well and and today you know that name is. Ah, the branding was changed to is is called Pixotope now. So that’s the name of the product and it’s been. Ah, yeah, it’s been going really really? Well I think.
Alejandro: Now as you were saying I mean 1 thing led to the next and obviously this this this led you to really starting portal one now portal one for the people that are listening to to get it. What is the business model. How do you guys make money.
Bård Anders Kasin: So so what we’re doing is we’ve launched a new category of entertainment that we call hybrid games and what I mean is then we’re combining games which shows and prices so basically taking the strengths of the games industry and combining that with the strengths of the Tv industry. So. Have these daily tournaments where you you play and different games in the platform and then every tournament ends with the show as the final of the tournament and then in the the in the in the show where we have real physical people coming in who are challenged in today’s game they’re placed into the game as a real person so when you play it on mobile. You basically see this real live person running inside your game playing around and then you try to beat them and and if you do you know we’re giving out rewards and then we basically kickstart the next daily tournament. So and in these tournaments you’re spending tokens every time you’re playing around and of course eventually you’re going to run out of tokens and then basically you have to get more so it’s the same model that pokemon go uses for example where you know you’re using poke balls to catch a pokemon you will run out then you get more and you can get more for free. Of course if you just go to a pocistop or whatnot. Ah, but then you can also do you know, buy more or you can do a season pass where you’re getting regular refs things like that. So. It’s the same type of free to play monetization model that you know most games use is today on on mobile.
Alejandro: And you were saying that you know they want I mean you you you guys were all already. You know like with a whole financing. You know, like in place I mean you had the investors there lining up. So so how much capital have you guys raised today.
Bård Anders Kasin: So so far it’s $75,000,000 that we raised in new money to the company.
Alejandro: Now you know that’s pretty impressive for you know you guys got started like around 2018 I mean you, you’ve done a series a I mean a pretty large series. A I mean how how big was the series. A.
Bård Anders Kasin: It was $60000000 so it was yeah it was a good outcome.
Alejandro: I mean Series A is is a massive series a but why why? I mean probably there’s a lot of people that are listening that are more used to like the 5 to 15 you know series a so typically when when you have a number and the investors are putting a number in. You know is say because they they see that it makes sense for the strategic roadmap to get that type of Capital. So So what would you say you know makes you know a company like portal one you know so well positioned for that you know amount of of capital to be deployed.
Bård Anders Kasin: So I think you know most investors or at least a lot of investors they’re looking at something that can define a category where you can basically establish a new category and kind of define that and that’s what we’ve done with hybrid games because we are the only ones in the world who does hybrid games. Didn’t exist before we we started with it. So so we have a big head start in that and of course when you have a head start. It. It is good to to keep that position and basically take advantage of it because I think most see that hybrid games is going to be a very big part of next generation type of entertainment. So for us. This is very similar to you know, like with Netflix for example, like if you have None show versus a thousand shows. It makes a very big difference on the on the product that you’re offering. So for us, you know we’re we’re building a destination for hybrid games. So the name kind of says that you know portal one one portal. Ah, so and we have 3 games Today. We’re launching the fourth one now in just a few weeks but then we will be adding just constantly like new games to both original games that we develop ourselves through partnerships where we do ip collaborations and then also. Ah, eventually enabling third- party producers to produce new games into the platform so that we can superscale kind of the the amount of content in the platform and that’s really the the the stage that we are in now is more like scaling it from being a game. In a way to becoming a platform or the destination for games where you go to porter one and to basically find different types of games that you want to play and and that’s one of the things that we see as well is that the users are playing multiple games basically daily.
Alejandro: And and for the people that are not so savvy on gaming How how would you define a hybrid game.
Bård Anders Kasin: Yeah, so it’s basically a hybrid between games and Tv that’s the the kind of the the way it works where we use the Tv component as an accelerator in the game design. So basically the tv show that runs is the final of the tournaments and that tv show runs. Inside the game. So. It’s not like a None screen experience or something you watched on a Tv broadcaster. It’s completely emedded and it’s a completely seamless part of the gaming experience. So so that’s why we call this a hybrid because it basically is a hybrid between games and Tv.
Alejandro: And when you’re building a company like this. What would you say is the most challenging I mean would you say is the staffing you know part of it like getting the right type of talent with the engineering skills to develop this or what? what are the areas that you were the most concerned about when you were and also that you’re the most concerned about us. You’re thinking about deploying.
Bård Anders Kasin: Yeah, so yeah, so so ah, staffing is really challenging and for the types of productions that we do because we we use the unreal engine to generate the graphics and build the and the games to perform which is a fantastic game engine. You know.
Alejandro: All this money that you’ve raised.
Bård Anders Kasin: By epic games who who make fortnite of course and um and it’s very very powerful and but at the same time you know it took off like ah, starting to be a few years ago now but there’s basically a delay in terms of talent that has to kind of train in and get really good at it. Ah, so especially if you’re in stealth mode that we were you know for at least None years where nobody even knows your name then you know then you’re not making it easy for yourself to recruit so so finding really great and build engine developers can be challenging. Ah, but we’ve been super fortunate. So the ones we have are you know exceptional and that’s really great, but it’s that is always the the big challenge is finding very very talented game engine developers.
Alejandro: So now just going back to to the last thing I mean there’s there’s same on the investments I mean you guys are out of Norway. You’ve raised a ton of money for being an early stage company. This is not normal. You know being in Norway. So how the hell did you manage to do that. And then also I mean obviously attracting talent also is a big one. So how do you go about doing that you know when you’re in Norway.
Bård Anders Kasin: Yeah, so we um, basically throughout the work that we did in the future group we were you know we were meeting a lot of investors and building good relationships and None of them was founders’ fund with you know with Peter Thiel and and and those guys. And um, they we were kind of having continuous conversations with them and when they heard that we were starting a new company. They were like oh so we missed out on the previous one. But what are you guys doing now and and they had seen what we have done before and I think we. We had a lot of good references from the industry in general and and they were excited about you know the thing that we were going to build so so we were super fortunate to have founders fund as the none investor that we took on board and of course it it helps to have ah None of the most highly regarded you know vs as your none investor. And so and with them when they came on board. Basically you know throughout the first year they were like observing what we were doing and and being very helpful and and throughout that year they saw a lot of progress so out of that you start to build trust that you know hey you’re actually delivering on what you’re saying I’m promising. And so they started to recommend this to others like you know, bringing in others and and you should really look at this and then we took in some more and then they had the same process where we showed them what we were going to do and then we delivered on that and we showed that we had really really good progress and then we kind of built. Relationship of trust with them as well that they saw that we were delivering on what we were saying and then we did that again and then through that you start to get a group of people that get really excited about what you’re doing that kind of start to like let other people know that you know portal None is actually they’re delivering on what they’re promising. And that becomes very powerful and then that started to spread and by the time we got to the series a you know then we had gone through everything from the prototyping state and the concept phase to building out the platform we were able to do full live Tv shows during the soon presentations and of course. Ah, because of corona everybody was on Zoom so that was perfect because then we could just basically do a live tv show where I was you know jumping into the games playing them live during the the presentation and then you basically get to see the full product right in front of you so you don’t have to do any guesswork of. Do you believe in this or not. Ah.
Bård Anders Kasin: So so by the time we did the series a you know, just about everyone almost that we were speaking to were had already heard a lot about us from before and talked to a lot of the investors. So then it became a very efficient process and that really you know we we just saw that we could. Expanded quite a lot because the the seed extension got oversubscribed by None times the size of the round so it was like quite heavily oversubscribed and then we ended up in the same position with the series a so and then it made sense because you know one thing was that people have been talking about the but. Potential recession for example for several years so and we knew exactly what we were going to do so it made sense for us to take in kind of a little bit of a bigger amount of money to be able to basically do all the things that we had in the pipeline that we knew we were going to do anyway.
Alejandro: And I heard you say the word The trust you know a few times and I think that that’s um, very powerful and and and critical thing to have in place you know with investors but what have you learned you know I’m sure there’s a lot of people listening that are thinking about raising money to building their relationship with the investors. But have you learned about building. Trust how do you go about doing that with existing investors so that they can reinvest down the line and then also with future investors that are looking at investing in your business.
Bård Anders Kasin: Yeah, so well, it’s a good question so like how do you live up to to trust. So I think for us it was about like the fine like take an example of some of the investors that saw what we were doing before we were raising money then. Ah, there there we talked about like okay this is what we have now this is what we have built. We never promise anything about what’s coming in the future but basically just what we’re doing so then we catch up with them again like let’s say three or four months later and then they saw the progress and they would see like oh wow a lot has happened our last.
Alejandro: Oh give me give me give me want more give me what just one second on it.
Bård Anders Kasin: So yeah, sure.
Alejandro: I all right sorry bor it we’ll we’ll edit that piece. He was a doctor so I had to I have to yeah things is that I had a concussion on the head playing soccer like a like three weeks ago or something like that and and they needed to schedule me tomorrow with a neurologist. Everything is good. They just need to confirm that everything is good so it was.
Bård Anders Kasin: Um, yeah, oh.
Alejandro: Of those calls that they it takes like six weeks to schedule you know an appointment within so it’s most very about that amazing yeah and we’ll we’ll edit this piece. so so so here so why don’t why don’t we if you don’t mind them. Let’s say let’s have you go again. You know with that response on the trust. So how do you build trust with investors. So.
Bård Anders Kasin: Yes, 100% under understand lower.
Bård Anders Kasin: Yeah, so and so basically what we did was that you know we every time we we met with an investor we talked about where we were and we showed them the progress of the product but then and you know before we were raising more money you know we would catch up regularly and and. With some of them. For example, we we met them at one point we showed the state of the product then we would catch up in like say four months and they would see the progress and they would be like wow that’s really good progress since last time we spoke and and that started becoming something that were happening like regularly that because we we were. Having good progress and and of course for them then they would see that you know we are delivering on the things that we are saying so both for the investors that were already in they were saying that of course constantly but also the ones that we were just in dialogue with so so then when we eventually got to to the series a you know then. A lot of them had followed the progress and for quite some time and been seeing that been talking to the other investors on board and and could really get like a good sense of of the fact that we were delivering on on the things that we were saying but at the same time we were. Never making promises of like what’s which we said the the state of the the growth going to be or anything or that we’re just focusing and entirely on making a good product and and showing in the progress of the product. Basically.
Alejandro: And in terms of now the I mean you, you’ve alluded to it. You know, like how you guys are thinking about like really building this and transitioning this into more of a platform. You know that that got me thinking and and if you were to go to sleep tonight a board and and and you wake up in a world where the. Vision Of Portal One is is fully realized what what does that world look like.
Bård Anders Kasin: Yeah, so ah, it’s what should we say? It’s a little bit hard to define because it’s you know the things that you can’t see yet are sometimes the hard to describe. But at least for us, you know that would be a living platform that has you know. Hundreds or even none of games on it eventually where people are playing with their friends moving seamlessly between games going from None game to the other and just like being social enjoying kind of all the entertainment and social experiences that you usually do but in in None integrated experience. So. Games tv and social as None seamless experience and also being able to access it from any device because that’s also one of the things that’s quite cool with with this platform is that you know we’re we’re doing it on mobile now. But then we also in the studio we’re doing the studio version which is something that where you would also be able to access on the. Playstation or Xbox for example, like a console the more like high end graphics version. But then we also have a Vr version which is basically what the guests are using when they are being immersed into the game so that you can see them in there and so eventually you know we we will release. These different types of experiences so that you can access this from any device and that’s one of the things that we’ve learned is how to to create experiences where you can play against each other evenly. if even if you are on different devices. So imagine sitting on the bus on your way to school or to work you know playing on mobile. Ah, coming home putting it up on your playstation or Xbox playing it more in the on the on the big screen and then maybe even putting on on vr googles eventually and being fully immersed in the game and then you know an example I like to use is with the driving game For example that we’re launching now in a few weeks. Ah, imagine you know, putting on Myr Googles and then you’re looking to the left and then you see a real physical person sitting in that car which is the guest of the show could be Justin Bieber for example, but then you look to the right and you see all your your friends sitting in the cars around you as their avatars and you’re all sharing the same experience. And None might be playing it in vr one might be on the console one might be on mobile but you’re all in None shared experience and that’s basically the platform that we have built now and what it enables. Ah.
Alejandro: Wow now like so much different from the games that I used to play so so kind of jealous and that you guys were not around you know when I was growing up but but the the other thing that that I wanted to ask ski you guys have been at it now for for a while I mean you’ve been an entrepreneur in say 2013 you know and obviously incubating this this thought for some time but if you have the opportunity to go back in time and and have a chat with your younger self with that younger board. You know that was you know thinking about maybe starting a company and and going at it on your own if you could just and let’s say that? yeah that younger self would listen because as. Where you know we we don’t listen but let’s say that you were actually listening and you could give that younger board None piece of advice before launching a company. What will that be and why given what you know now. Okay.
Bård Anders Kasin: Yeah that’s a very good question and ah None thing that comes to mind like None thing is I would not want to not do the things I’ve done because that’s the thing that has allowed me to learn. So of course you have to you have to run into the wall a few times you have to bang your head then you have to fail and you have to learn and you have to all do do all of those things. But I guess one of the things that have at least in my experience often led to things not working out has been when I have not trusted my own intuition.
Alejandro: Right? right.
Bård Anders Kasin: So ah, often like sitting in conversations where you have an internal feeling that this is the way we should do it. But then you have someone who is more senior for example in a certain area that might not be covering the total area what you’re doing but the but the smaller one saying that? no we have to do it like that this way. It’s been surprising the amount of times that I’ve experienced that oh I should have gone with my gut feeling because that was what we ended up doing eventually and that’s not because I know everything but it’s just that if you’re the None focusing entirely on the vision of what you’re doing. You’re probably the one that goes into the most areas of. You know how all of these different areas are connected in a way and so ah, this for me that’s been one of the things that I’ve learned is you know, be more kind of self-confident in trusting your intuition for the vision that you’re building because you’re probably the one that has taught about it the most. But then also always listen to good advice of course because I think that’s also one of the things that is key to success and and ah for us, you know we try to always listen to to great advice. That’s why we try to bring like as many smart people around us as possible together. But then at the end of the day when you feel that you’ve been able to extract all of that knowledge then at least for me, it’s been like have the courage to then believe in the conclusion that you feel is is right and and don’t let others pursue in another direction if you’re the one that is responsible for kind of. Taking that mission forward.
Alejandro: I Love it very profound board. So for the people that are listening that want to get in touch and say hi. What is the best way for them to do so.
Bård Anders Kasin: Ah, probably on Linkedin even though I have to admit that I it takes a while to process it maybe the best way would maybe be to to send an email to Hello At portal http://one.com that’s the best way actually because then someone. Ah. Is more capable of following up will take charge of that.
Alejandro: Amazing, well board really appreciate it very profound you know and and great inspiration here. Thank you? So so much for being on the dealmaker show today.
Bård Anders Kasin: Thank you so much for having me.
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