Neil Patel

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Anton Katz has gone from Olympic shooter to becoming an instrumental coder who has been creating the framework for the new global digital economy. His venture, Talos, has attracted funding from top-tier investors like Andreessen Horowitz, Notation Capital, Wells Fargo Strategic Capital, and PayPal Ventures.

In this episode, you will learn:

  • Launching a startup in a down economy
  • The future of digital trading
  • Anton’s top tips when starting your own startup


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For a winning deck, take a look at the pitch deck template created by Silicon Valley legend, Peter Thiel (see it here) that I recently covered. Thiel was the first angel investor in Facebook with a $500K check that turned into more than $1 billion in cash.

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Moreover, I also provided a commentary on a pitch deck from an Uber competitor that has raised over $400 million (see it here).

Remember to unlock for free the pitch deck template that is being used by founders around the world to raise millions below.

About Anton Katz:

As CEO of Talos, Anton Katz is responsible for leading the firm’s overall operations and driving its strategic initiatives. Prior to co-founding Talos, Mr. Katz served as Head of Trading Technology for AQR Capital Management, one of the world’s most prominent quantitative investment firms. Prior to that he spent six years at Broadway Technology, most recently serving as Director of Software, where he led trading technology development projects for dozens of leading banks, asset managers and vendors. He began his technology career at Microsoft. Mr. Katz is a veteran of the Israel Defence Forces, and prior to that was a member of the Israeli National Shooting Team. He holds a degree in Computer Science from MIT.

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Connect with Anton Katz:

Read the Full Transcription of the Interview

Alejandro: Alrighty hello everyone and welcome to the deal maker show. So today. We have a pretty exciting guest. You know we’re going to be talking about building and scaling. Also there’s going to be a none of lessons that this guest is going to be sharing with us about his journey. Raising money and having no clue on how to raise money I mean now they’ve raised a upon but and they’re in this rocket ship. But we’re going to learn quite a bit here so without farther to let’s welcome our guest today Anton Katz: Katz welcome to the show.

Anton Katz: Thank you very much for having me I appreciate. That’s a very high expectation bar. You’re already setting out there. But I’m I’m equally excited to to be here. So thank you very much for having me thanks for the opportunity and yeah hope I can share something.

Alejandro: Ah.

Alejandro: Ah, so so let’s lets let’s do a little of a walk through memory lane here Anton Katz: so so I mean you you traveled quite a bit you know when when you were born and growing up. You know Ukraine they needs Israel obviously now in the Us. But. Give us a walk through memory lane. How was life growing up

Anton Katz: Ah, life was ah, life was interesting. Growing up, you know I I come from ah from a great family I’m very very lucky honestly I was born in Ukraine. Um, grew up in a city of donettesk until I was 10 and donette is is is where a lot of the fighting is happening now. Unfortunately. Ah, we moved with our entire family. You know mother father sister grandparents to Israel in 1990 and yeah, that was kind of like ah that was interesting because I think as it as a ten year old you you get to a country without speaking the language at all that was. Kind of like an adjustment period. There. Moreover you know six months after reented in Israel the gulf war started so we were sitting in in bomb shelters with with rockets kind of like ringing down in the country. So yeah, but you know at the same time I honestly can’t complain I’ve had a great upbringing I had great childhood. Really really loving family. Um, which is you know has been supportive in in many cases even when they they they really don’t understand what the hell I’m doing you know.

Alejandro: So you were quite competitive even at 15 you know what? what? What was this thing about shooting what got you to shooting.

Anton Katz: Yeah I don’t know there was ah I always I think it was always fairly competitive in in a lot of things that I used to do and played quite a lot of different sports growing up I you know I was in athletics I was playing tennis for a while. And then at 15 I started ah doing sports shooting olympic shooting. Um I think at none I I was on the israeli junior shooting team. Um, at None um, I went to Barcelona for the world championship and shooting and I was very fortunate to win the none ah the gold medal there. Um, and yeah, and then um, it kind of ah you know I I joined the the military the mandatory service in Israel afterwards. So it was a little bit difficult to continue competing. But.

Alejandro: Yeah, yeah.

Anton Katz: Yeah, but it was ah yeah, a really interesting party in my life Actually I still hold you quite a lot of the things from then.

Alejandro: But I’m sure that you were you were quite the rock Star pro in the army when it came to shooting now and doing any competitions there with with peers that’s for sure. So so so let’s talk about joining. Ah so joining the army I mean obviously that’s the um.

Anton Katz: You it was. It wasn’t very fair.

Alejandro: That’s what everyone needs to do in Israel and I think that that you know gives definitely a lot of desire and and and and ethic to so how do you think that that joining the army and doing that program has shaped who you are and. 

Anton Katz: Um, well I mean you know the thing is like you’ve said right? The military service in Israel is mandatory. It’s mandatory for um, for for boys and for girls in a way. So everybody goes um I think some of the interesting thing is that you know again everybody goes and it’s not that you can you know if you come from a certain status. You can pick your unit or anything like that you you really get into this melting pot. You’re you’re serving side-by-side with people that come from very very different background from you whether they they were come from immigrant parents or whether they were born in Israel. You know the different languages they speak the different things that they’ve you know and and different socioeconomic environments as well. So I think that the none thing you do in Israel which is kind of good is that everybody is aligned. You know you come out of the military having served with very very different people from you different cities different everything. So I think you know that that’s kind of like ah that’s a big big thing that you get from it. Um, and the other thing is you know everybody has a different military service especially in Israel. It’s it’s ah it’s a wide variety of roles that you can have but. The the None thing that prevails there is you you come up with the feeling feeling that you can trust yourself to with the unknown a little bit. You know it’s it’s ah, people tend to try and and overplan and and and kind of like make sure that everything progresses exactly as they see and then that breaks. Always we when you touch reality you know life is unexpected like look at what happened over the past three years you know between the the pandemic that nobody thought we’re we’re going to see what’s happening right now with the market life is full of unknowns and I think the military is actually pretty good about you know getting you into the mindset of like hey. You’re going to face a couple of weird situations and you should trust yourself that you are going to persevere that you are going to. Ah, you’re going to be able to handle them. Are you going to be able to continue forward. So I think that those are kind of like some of the major major stuff that that comes out like that’s some of the culture there that that I appreciate.

Alejandro: Now in your case you know going from shooting to computers is quite ah, quite a different path and like a computer science like like why computer science out of all things. So.

Anton Katz: You know? Well I mean shooting while it’s a really love the the subject then the thing is like again you know sports shooting Olympic shooting is very different from the kind of like movie style shooting that you see. I’ve used this example before but I can’t stress it enough. It’s not like a John week getting in like clearing rooms and all that kind of stuff shooting olympic shooting you can you can watch it. It’s like you know one shot a minute It’s very meditative. It’s all in your head you have to control your heartbeat. So it’s really really interesting because you’re constantly just dealing with yourself really just with yourself when you’re doing this kind of stuff so you know like it’s it’s not ah as extreme as you would think you know going from ah Olympic shooting to to computer sites because you’re really with yourself there too. Um, but I also.

Alejandro: Yeah, yeah.

Anton Katz: Think it was between None professions pretty much everybody in my family like literally pretty much everybody in family is a doctor so I always thought that at some point I’m likely just going to be a doctor and I was just very attracted to technology I really really love technology from a young age. Um, you know when I was 10 my grandfather as we were leaving a Soviet Union my grandfather gave me None books about programming. We didn’t have computers actually I didn’t get my first computer until I was none neighbors gave us a computer that they weren’t using. But I i. Dived into the programming books and I was like reading it cover to cover I started programming on paper I was writing down code on paper like I was really obsessed with it and I think you know over time it became very obvious to me that that’s the profession that I really like that’s the stuff that I’m attracted and it’s exactly the same today. I am really passionate about technology I’m an engineer you know like I tinker with everything I build a lot of things still um I try to get involved as deeply as I can with anything that has to do with engineering so it became it became obvious so it’s not actually you know. It’s it’s it’s not too dissimilar from shooting but it’s ah it’s something that has been a passion of mine for a while

Alejandro: Now in your case computer science. You know, happened at mit mean I’m sure that your parents were very very proud but they but right after mit you know what you decided to do was oh yeah, let’s hear let’s hear it.

Anton Katz: You know there was a funny story about that. Actually so first of all, you know when I left the when I left the military I started competing again and you know the idea was to um. I was hoping to get to the 2004 Olympics. So this is like you know 2002 2003 and the Olympic O video visor obviously said like hey you know if you’re going to the olympics you have to basically say you’re not going to school like this is you have to dedicate your life to to going to the Olympics which is. Who reasonable. You know it takes so much work and effort to get there and so I said okay I’m going to do it I really wanted to do it I really wanted to represent my country I promised I’m going to apply to 1 school and 1 school only. That’s my dream school if I get in there. It’s done I’m um, I’m done with shooting and I’m going to to school and then you know like yeah mit made some sort of a mistake on the admissions accepted me and to uss history. But when I when I got into mit I was I remember I was doing to my grandfather who’s you know professor of medicine and he’s like.

Alejandro: Wow.

Anton Katz: He’s like what are you going to do and I’m like well you know I’m going to go and study Computers Si I’m going to be an engineer. He’s like and you know he’s phenomenal like you know, fought in World War two and he basically was like he’s like I don’t know if you can ever make money doing that. Like it’s you you you probably want to be either a doctor or a lawyer and that was exactly that and I’m like no listen I mean I’m going to do it and he’s like is it at least a good school like I promise you it’s It’s a really nice school.

Alejandro: Ah, a song.

Anton Katz: So yeah, so there was actually the the None feeling there was disappointment but the but the parents are were were really supportive. Of course.

Alejandro: So so you know the good news here is that right? after mit you also had the opportunity of experiencing I mean obviously now you’re in in the startup world venture world and but but but you also had the opportunity of of seeing how the larger. You know, really successful companies. You know, operate and you did spend you know some time in Microsoft. So what? what was your take out of being at Microsoft.

Anton Katz:  Yeah, so I joined Microsoft right out of school. Um and I joined the windows live division Microsoft was going through. You know, restructuring at that time and we were trying to figure out what kind of company they’re going to be. Going forward, especially as online was becoming a lot more more interesting and social media was becoming more interesting. So for Microsoft you know I had a I had a really really awesome team there and I learned how to do things or at least I got exposed to how to do things at at an enormous scale. You know. And and there’s great things about it and there were things that were just not super compatible with me about it I really liked the fact that the influence you know like when we released a feature 2000000 people touched that feature day one that was crazy crazy. You’re thinking like do you know what? None people is like it’s an it’s an enormous scale. So I think you know getting used to that getting used to that kind of impact was was really cool to see and and the machinery behind it was phenomenal. You know how do we think about privacy. How do we think about security like all the stuff that nobody keeps in mind when they release software to the masses so that was really challenging at the same time. The the pace was tough. You know. Just got out of school I really wanted to build things but for us to to release anything to months and so ultimately what happened is that I was looking for something a little bit faster pace and that’s when I joined you know a small startup in in New York that built trading systems for the financial markets. And it was called Broadway Technology led by Tyler Mueller and Joshua Woolski there you know for the none time I saw like what is startup operates like you know and this is. Is some of the best engineers that that I’ve ever met and were able to release very very quickly. We’re able to innovate very quickly and and still operate at a very very high scale because over time some of the largest institutions in the world were actually our clients so very very different experiences. You know between Microsoft and then immediately afterwards going to a very very small. Ah, company where I think you know we were None people when I joined and that’s actually where I met my cofounder that is not my cofounder at Taos.

Alejandro: And there you were for about 6 years and and and a half. So what kept you for so long there I mean that int startup beers that’s like do years you know it’s it’s a ton of time. Yeah.

Anton Katz: Um, you know what? it’s enormous of course but you know the beautiful thing about about Broadway is that especially in and the same whole true for Tallus right now when you get to build something from the ground app. You get to kind of influence the culture you get to build the kind of company that you want to work at so you know we went from when I joined we were again like somewhere around None employees Broadway went eventually to 200 and something became the largest provider of trading technologies with the southside sector but the team was phenomenal. We interviewed everybody. We made sure that everybody was ah was the right culture fit for us. You know it was a really family atmosphere so it was it was great to grow up there I got to learn how you know to to build and to scale a startup how to interact. Also honestly what not to do sometimes you know. Um, so it was a really good lesson and it was a very comfortable place to be and so you know when I got the opportunity to join a Qr which is of course you know at the time was one of the top 2 None of the top 3 um quantity vaset managers in the world. Um. That was a very very tough decision to go from something that you’ve participated that you’ve influenced so much to build out of and then join a company where you’re going to be you know at a very senior position but at the same time like it’s not your company that you’ve built from the ground up So yeah, so I stayed at Broadway because. We’ve built that company from the ground up and it was ah that that was an easy thing to do.

Alejandro: And then you also made your cofounder there. So I mean it was a what? Ah what are people tell you know experience in your career and and eventually you know you ended up giving your notice you went to a Qr capital management to become the head of trading there and they. And then eventually you know it’s time. It’s time you know it’s you’re getting the opportunity knocking on your door to be become on entrepreneur. So what was what was that thing. What was that journey like going from ideation all the way to to lunch.

Anton Katz: So so you’re absolutely right? So I met ethan at at Broadway we we joined you know like ah six months apart um while I joined a qr to become the head of trading technology. Um. Ethan continued at Broadway and over time became the chief architect of Broadway so very very senior role there in the technology organization. Um, ultimately what happened is you know aqr is is is a phenomenal place. Very academic very transparent in nature. You could collaborate with everybody you know, like very different from a lot of hedge funds out there that that tend to operate in the siloed mode where it’s it’s really you know everything is about returns for any None particular team. A Qr was very very good. Always in terms of collaboration. So a great place to be in. Um. Ultimately, the reason why you know like you, you’re talking about ideation is towards about ah 2016 2017 it became very apparent that you know something is going on in digital assets. So my background you know at mit I did the computer science but I also focused quite a lot on cryptography. Um, and then as a result was in touch with some of the community there. So I got to see the early bitcoin paper. Um, but really didn’t pay as much attention to it as I should have but when I was at a Qr you first started seeing the you know the signs that ah. A true asset is a true asset class being built. You’re starting to see that hey you know there might be institutional involvement here that will have to take place for this asset to it to to get established and they became an obsession. You know I was thinking like I’m an engineer I’m an engineer in the financial markets like you’re seeing this evolution happening before your eyes. It became. And no brainer that you have to be involved to some extent. So I initially tried you know to get involved inside aqr and and they were super supportive. You know we we did all kinds of projects. But ultimately it’s you know what? I know how to do with with you know and an Ethan as well. What we know how to do is we know how to build infrastructure that is used by. Multiple organizations so you know we we had a couple of different ideas. Ultimately we landed on um, solving some of the problems that we solved in capital markets but solving them in crypto and really for the none time connecting institutions. To crypto but using the tools that they they understand that they know that they they’re familiar with from capital markets. So that’s kind of like you know the initial idea initial idea was actually starting a fundnt but we we moved away from it very quickly because.

Anton Katz: Just honestly like I don’t know how to do it teeth and doesn’t know how to do. We’re engineers. This is some rebuild systems. We don’t build funds but when we started building the infrastructure it became very apparent that you know the kind of promise that we’re seeing through the ecosystem in terms of connectivity execution institutional tools will be relevant.

Alejandro: I I.

Anton Katz: To any institution that’s getting in and trying to actually trade digital assets um and and does kind of like the the starting point of the company for us.

Alejandro: So at what point do you guys realize? hey let’s give our notice and let’s do this full time.

Anton Katz: It was ah towards the you know, um, probably the beginning of 2018 is when we we you know ether and I kept talking and ether is incredible. You know he’s able to dive into dive into matters very very very deeply understand them. Um, and and that’s you know, still the case today and that’s exactly the role that he’s playing obviously with the company Ethan I called him at some point talked to him about digitalasses. He’s like I haven’t looked at it too much but then within the next like three weeks he was already an expert in what’s going. He took classes. He he you know he experimented with it a little bit. He’s like yeah this is this is something super interesting. We should do this so this was you know the beginning of 182 and we started talking about what can we do how can We do it um we gave notices we started um writing a sample code. We’re starting writing. Ah you know initial code the 2 of us and trying to figure out like what things will actually look like and then ah probably you know and months away from there. We spoke to the None vc honestly just because. Somebody we we didn’t know even what a Vc world was we none of us ever raise capital ever. So we spoke through first vc because one of our friends said like hey you know these guys are really connected to crypto chat with them and see how they’re thinking about your idea and that pivoted into actually getting an offer almost on the spot from that we see. And there was a notation capital.

Alejandro: Us Amazing now for the P and we we’ll talk about vcs some money just a little bit but before doing that for the people that are listening to get it why’t that up being the business model of the company. How do you guys make money with tell us trading.

Anton Katz: Yeah, so taus in general is ah you know when we started obviously we were a bilateral trading platform which basically means institutions connect through talus to trade digital assets right? So we have connectivity to multiple exchanges. We connect to multiple dealers. Ah, today we connect to multiple custodians we connect to settlement networks we have quite a lot of services but at its core in the beginning. It was really like hey we are going to give you the opportunity to trade in an institutional way. So that means smart auto routing that means you know reliable price discovery that means quite a lot of different tools. The way we make money is we charge. You know we we have ah the steering infrastructure but effectively the volume that goes through the system is how we charge the more volume through the system. Um that that’s that’s kind of like I tie into the revenue of the company.

Alejandro: Now How much yeah and let let let’s talk about money now like how much capital have you guys raised today.

Anton Katz: And that was the the very beginning and now of course it’s It’s a little bit different but that’s the that’s the initial kind of like revenue for us. Yeah.

Anton Katz: Um, we raised roughly up until now we raised roughly one $50,000,000

Alejandro: And how has it been the the journey because you know I know that for you guys you enter this thing and you had no idea about fundraising So I’m sure there was ah ah quite ah, a bit of a spaghet ah that you had to throw on the wall.

Anton Katz: Yeah I mean I think you said it that’s that it’s not very far from reality because you know when we so initially you know when you get into this space. We didn’t know anything about fundraising so the very none thing is we said we don’t know anything about it. We’re just not going to do it. And we wanted to chat with a couple of people but really Ethan and I said as much as we can let’s just support it ourselves and and then see if we have a strong business to stand on and kind of like grow it organically and that was you know without a doubt looking back complete mistake complete complete mistake and I’m I’m very happy that that people educated us not to do that. Ah, because in our specific business the relationship that we got from the vcs. Ah the the kind of you know the the information we got from them the the connection that they’ve opened in the industry has been invaluable for us. But like you said when we joined. We we spoke to to you know, ah to a few people notations seem to get the point immediately. So you know they kind of like in the next day literally and said hey we have a check ready for you. We want to sponsor this but we believe in you guys and we think you also should talk to these people and they connected us to. Cassel island which became an investor they connected just to autonomous they connect us founder collective those are all became investors very very quickly so over the next like I think like three weeks that round was was done. But yeah, but you know we honestly we we just didn’t know we didn’t know. What to ask for. We didn’t know how to think about valuations. We didn’t know how to think about you know dilution? Um, and I think you know we were lucky that we were dealing with investors and vcs that were willing to educate and were not taking advantage of us. But I also heard of none of other founders that are getting in. And don’t have the the you know the kind of investors that we have and as a result get into deals that are very suboptimal for them in the long term so you know it’s it’s ah yeah, it was.

Alejandro: So so out of fundraiscing Anton Katz: out of fundraiscing then what? what would you say you know has been your biggest lesson.

Anton Katz:  Um, I you know I think that there’s a few I think that first and foremost is never ever ever. Do it by yourself without getting it getting proper advice you know and that advice is not a hey you know chat with a couple of people and ask them how how they did it. This is you have to talk to trusted advisors. You have to probably ask for a founder that is like a not a serious f or or d founder this is a series a founder that has gone through this in the past like None ars to walk you through the entire process to walk you through the gaches to walk through the pieces where they argued where they you know where where they had suboptimal deals but really like you know every step of the way I have to tell you like my biggest advice is that don’t do this yourself. Don’t do this by yourself because a lot of people by your scientists are walking exactly the same path a lot of people have learned quite a lot of lessons. There’s a lot of help out there and as a founder especially from other founders you will always get help people will help people will answer your call people will jump on a call with you and they will contribute at the time. Despite the fact that her schedule might be crazy but you know asking other people for help during especially those early stages I think is is just crucial.

Alejandro: A hundred percent now in your guys’ case you know it has been you know, quite um, as you were alluding to it earlier I mean you guys have evolved quite a bit I mean as the as you were thinking about the market and and looking at the market. You’ve also adjusted you know the business you know, perhaps the model.

Anton Katz: Um, yeah.

Alejandro: So how would you say that that things have evolved and and how were you able to to really look at potentially timing the market and then putting in parallel the execution to it. It sounds like you guys have done a really good job. So.

Anton Katz: Well I mean you know when we started building taus we. We started building in a downmarket. Um, and which was you know, not great from some perspectives because. You know there weren’t a lot of people that would be talking partnership to us. You know from a client perspective. You couldn’t secure a lot of client relationships but actually it was a blessing in disguise because it gave us time to be heads down and build the right product. Um, and by the time we released the product about a year year and a half later we started seeing the the first emergence of ah you know institutions that are coming into this domain so in a way I don’t know you know whether it’s it’s it’s by luck or or or skill or or combination of those 2 that was a great timing for us. Overall we were able to come to market with ah with a great with a product that was solid that was able to already work in production again like we’ve done this before in every asset class. So we kind of knew what we’re building but to your point you know you learn, um, a lot. After you got a production and especially as the market evolves. So if you really think about where we started when we started. It was very clear for us. We wanted to make sure institutions can trade digital assets. That’s it. You know we’ve built exactly these kind of systems before in effect in in futures in fixed income and treasurs. It was just yet another one of those we knew the clients we knew the requirements this is a system we wanted to put in place two years later and and definitely today you know we are now in what we call phase None phase two is very different right now we’re we’re thinking about tallows is that. Daos is no longer just a bilateral trading platform. We’re doing more than that because in digital glasses. You can. We’re doing things that we we wish we could have done in capital markets today. What we do is we really start providing this onestop shop for institutions. So not only just the trading. But also think about what happens before the trade on the pre-trade basis. What happens after the trade. So we have services like portfolio management treasury management. We have data on our side so people can make the right decision how to trade on the post trade basis. We have transaction cost analysis. We have clearing and settlement. We have. Reconciliation. We have quite a lot of different tools and now we’re adding lending and borrowing so more and more you know like the company has evolved and again like it’s because you reading the market and you see what’s actually needed the company has evolved to really provide this umbrella of services to either buy side or sells and students to trade. But we’re also now you know as ah, again.

Anton Katz: You have your hands in dia asset class. You know what’s going on. We know where we’re headed to and where we’re headed to is also very different from where we are today today. Our focus is providing this kind of services in crypto. But really what I what I truly believe is that we are going to see. A lot of the traditional asset classes starting to move to digital assets rails and I I say this because we are the ones that built quite a lot of the infrastructure in traditional asset classes and I can tell you that with the tools that we have today in digital assets. We can rewrite and and optimize a lot of the things that we’ve done in in capital markets. So for us. You know, right now. Telles’s vision is you know provide end-to-end services become the one stop shop for crypto and allow institutions to trade and to to do other operations in crypto seamlessly but tomorrow’s vision and really our northern star is to do this across the board for every asset classes and really become the you know the. The framework they they kind of like the rails of institutional markets going forward in any asset classes because we think that there’s going to be a pretty serious migration to digital assets and we want to do this across the world. So you know, definitely not not how we used to think about the company initially.

Alejandro: So then so let me ask you right? Let let me let me ask you something here then to expand on that imagine if you go to sleep tonight and you wake up in a world where the vision of talus is fully realized what does that world look like.

Anton Katz: Oh man, it’s it’s a happier world I mean look we again. This is it’s it’s almost like an intermediate state. But if we achieve this none milestone right? This this phase 3 of our company that means that the entire financial ecosystem is now operating on digital as rails. Which by itself means that there’s a lot more transparency into how the money is moving around the world. There’s a lot more visibility into it into what’s actually going on where actually is the money who is doing what with the money and as a result I think it breeds. Um, you know it it brings ah it it breeds a better. Economic environment globally. So for instance, you know we we often talk about how crypto and digital lessons general can bank the unbanked. This is one of the things that you can achieve you know today if you look at the experimentation that’s happening in digital assets a person that never ever had in a country that you know that. It’s not necessarily the the friendliest with ah with the banking sector right? a person that never had a bank account can potentially you know, save money convertent digital assets can make yield on those digital assets can invest in products. These are the kind of things that we’re getting into so you know I think that the. If we’re successful and it’s not just us I mean we work very widely with a lot of partners and it’s definitely not a hey talis can bring the entire world to the new financial ecosystem. We think that it’s it’s ah it’s a path. It’s a 5 to 10 year path but if we’re there. Um, we’re seeing a lot more efficiency a lot less risk in the ecosystem we’re seeing a completely different global economic environment than what we’re seeing today as a result of these tools. You know? Yeah and that’s ah and that’s just you know like.

Alejandro: I Love it.

Anton Katz: I’m always you know because that’s my world I talk about finance and I talk about technology in finance. But really, you know like because Finance is such a critical piece of everything you can see how that impacts every other thing that we have in life. You know how the the companies operate how social media operates How people interact with each other.. It’s It’s a very wide reaching set of um of things that will happen if the financial environment itself is is a lot different than it is today.

Alejandro: Absolutely now imagine if I put you into a time machine and I bring you back in time I bring you back in time you know maybe to that moment where where you were thinking about hey maybe you know we do something here now and then and you are looking into the space and getting excited about having a company of your own. If. You had the opportunity of having a chat with that younger self and telling that younger Anton Katz: hey you know here is what you should absolutely do before and what you should absolutely must think about. Before launching a business. What would that be and why give me what you know now.

Anton Katz: Well am I allowed to give myself financial advice because I would just tell me just to buy Bitcoin Ethereum as much as you can just just just get just all the money that you have just that’s where it goes No I mean you know if it’s a if if it’s just ah advice but not financial advice.

Alejandro: Ah. Ah.

Anton Katz: Um, I would say go faster I would say go faster. You know we we spent a lot of time and we spent a lot of time with people trying to you know trying to get our heads around like what is it? What is it like to to take money does it make sense to take money we spent. None of time obsessing about tiny details again like like dilution all these kind of stuff later on I can tell you right now. All those optimizations are zero. It’s 0 it’s it’s just a distraction. We have a business to build you know whether you have 1% more 2% more or or 1% or two percent less out of that business. You know. The the scales here are like what is None or two percent of 0 nothing. You know so going forward worrying about the the actual you know things that matter to the business. The the market fit like honestly the the most important thing which is the team. How do we put the right team in place. How do we scale the team correctly, you know how do we do this over time being a little bit more aggressive in terms of that kind of scale. That’s probably the the best advice I give myself I mean we were very very lucky to be where we are. We have spent so much time you know, making sure that. We have a great culture Ethan I that that’s basically the thing that we’re we’re obsessed with and and recruiting and and we have a really great team right now that’s doing that that’s looking for those people that are super special to join our team. We should have put those processes ahead of time like a while while before we well before we did you know we we. I still think despite every despite where we are today I still think that we were too conservative in the beginning.

Alejandro: Got it and now for the people that are listening that want to reach out and say hi. What is the best way for them to do so.

Anton Katz: Um, so you know obviously tell us dot com is the the website t a l os dot com. Um, if if you’re interested interested in in in narb you know. Ecosystem and infrastructure and you want to talk about tradinging info at we always reply. We always take a look but that’s actually super monitoritary if you’re if you’re reaching out about anything else send us an-mail at to info and we’ll take a look We’re always happy to Jeff Partnerships we you know I would say this the ecosystem here is growing. It’s very very easy to collaborate here. You know we are seeing that the conversation in encrypted digital lessons in general is a lot friendlier than than the the vast majority of conversations you would have for instance in capital markets right? So people really do try to help each other. We have very frequent conversation with people that in every shape or form would be our competitors but we have very friendly conversation with them because everybody understands this is about growing the pie. So we’re a very friendly company. We’re very open about what we do and where we can help we’ll help just reach out.

Alejandro: Amazing! Well hey Anton Katz: thank you so much for being on the deal maker show. It has been an honor to have you with us. But.

Anton Katz: Thank you so much. Thank you so much for the time. Thanks for all the help that you’re you’re giving people that are you know, walking this path.

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