Neil Patel

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Andy Bromberg is now on his third startup. One which has already raised $100M from top investors, to make the financial services space simpler, and more accessible to everyone, everywhere. His latest venture, Eco, has attracted funding from top-tier investors like Lightspeed Venture Partners, StartX, Formless Capital, and Blockchange Ventures.

In this episode, you will learn:

  • The future of rewards
  • Simplifying your finances
  • Andy’s expectations for the crypto market


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For a winning deck, take a look at the pitch deck template created by Silicon Valley legend, Peter Thiel (see it here) that I recently covered. Thiel was the first angel investor in Facebook with a $500K check that turned into more than $1 billion in cash.

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Moreover, I also provided a commentary on a pitch deck from an Uber competitor that has raised over $400 million (see it here).

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About Andy Bromberg:

Andy Bromberg serves as CEO of Eco, a consumer financial app creating a single place for your entire financial life — giving you market-leading rewards on saving, spending, and more.

Eco has raised more than $90 million from an array of leading investors, including L Catterton, Activant Capital, a16z Crypto, Founders Fund, and others.

Prior to Eco, Andy was Co-founder and President of CoinList, a leading platform for token sales, trading, and other financial services for the best digital asset projects.

Andy is also a founding board member at FreeWorld, a non-profit seeking to end institutionalized poverty in the United States by providing access to living-wage jobs for people with criminal histories.

He studied Mathematics and Computer Science at Stanford University and co-founded the Stanford Bitcoin Group.

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Connect with Andy Bromberg:

Read the Full Transcription of the Interview:

Alejandro Cremades: Alrighty hello everyone and welcome to the dealmakerr show. So I’m very excited about our guest Today. We’re going to be talking a little bit about building scaling financing I mean all they all the good stuff that we like to hear we’re going to be talking about crypto quite a little bit here are the crypto winter the crypto highs. They. Cri talo I mean all of that stuff and then also riding a rocket ship even during the macro environment that we are right now experiencing so without far ado let’s welcome our guests today Andy Brumberg welcome to the show. So originally from Boston.

Andy Bromberg: Thanks for having me really excited to be here.

Alejandro Cremades: So give us a little of our walk through memory lane. How is life growing up.

Andy Bromberg: Life growing up was great I grew up in the suburbs of of Boston um, really fortunate to just spend a bunch of time when I was younger starting to build little businesses marketing firm and all sorts of stuff like that. So I spent a lot of my time growing up doing that and then. Ah, you know did that before I shipped out to the west coast for for school.

Alejandro Cremades: So how did you get into the whole you know, ah math thing I mean it it sounds like you know that was like a really big passion of yours you ended up going to Stanford but how did that develop.

Andy Bromberg: Just love numbers. You know I think sometimes kids grow up and like the numbers Sometimes they like the words and for me it was it was numbers and just doing interesting and fun things and the achievement of figuring out those problems and solving them and that is that certainly stuck with me stuck with me now.

Alejandro Cremades: So let’s talk about Stanford so arriving there to the you know territory of innovation. You know everyone there are starting companies. So how was how was it like you know when you went there and and all of a sudden you’re looking around and and it’s just startups absolutely everywhere. So.

Andy Bromberg: It’s a really special place for that reason I mean the exposure you get from being there and being around people who are thinking about the same thing and and the access you get from being at that university is really special I feel really fortunate to have been able to go there. Um, you know a really formative experience for me and and a really important one was that my freshman year. When I was at Stanford I took a class taught by balogyernavasan who um was the the founder of earn.comlaterctwo of coinbase. It’s an investor is is in the news recently for his his bitcoin bet that he’s been He’s been making about hyperinflation but he was he was my professor at the time in a class called startup engineering. What was amazing about this class this was months into my experience at university was that it was all about how to build a startup in great detail. A lot of practical stuff. But then also ball always had these guest speakers come I think it was every other week or every week a guest speaker would come and talk about. Building startups and it was amazing people early engineering leaders at uber founders of all sorts of companies investors and and you just got this amazing exposure to people that were actually building things in really close quarters and hearing them talk about their experiences and and interacting with them closely and so. Yeah, that was something I could I feel like I could only get there and and it was a really special experience.

Alejandro Cremades: And now in this case I mean you did have a professor that they they really made a huge impact on you so tell us about this professor and and why was it such an impact.

Andy Bromberg: Yeah, well, the other interesting thing about this class that I took not to go too deeply into this class. But um, there was it was all about building startups and and how to do that in practice and it was it was kind of a computer science oriented class. So really about the coding and techniques required in building startups. There was a hackathon every Thursday where every Thursday everyone came together in the engineering building and worked on some project they were going to work on for the whole quarter and there was a group of 7 of us that every Thursday went to this hackathon at six zero P M in the engineering building and stayed until 6 a m the next morning. And we’re working on these these projects the whole time and and it was a lot of fun and the amazing thing was that ball this professor stayed with us the whole time. So every Thursday he was up all night with us working on these projects and helping us and giving us pointers at the end of that quarter. We had so much fun building these things and we were all like man. We really want to. Keep spending more time together and working on stuff and and thinking about things embology with all of his foresight which he has in in spades said to us. Well let’s let’s turn this group of 7 of you into the Stanford Bitcoin Group bitcoin is going to be a big deal. It’s going be really important. This is in 2012? Um, and he said this is going to be ah, a big deal. We should study it academically and and you know the group of 7 of us were at that point a little skeptical I think we’re like ah maybe this bitcoin thing will be a big deal. We’re not really sure but ball kind of pounded the table and said listen bitcoin’s going to be a big deal. It’s going to matter. You’re going to want to be involved. Let’s.

Andy Bromberg: Start a group and study it and so that group of 7 of us plus biology and another professor named fij pode um started the Stanford bitcoin group in 2012 and spent a couple of years doing academic research building projects doing a lot of advocacy work running up and down sandhill road pitching pitching bitcoin to people. Um, and that was a really formative experience for me, got me into the crypto industry which then um has as meaningful throughout my career but also just a fascinating experience to be involved in in the early days or early-ish days of that ah of that technology.

Alejandro Cremades: So What was it like when when because this was 2012 I mean it was not as adopted as as nowadays, everyone you know you asked them hey have you heard about bitcoin and and everyone you know has heard of it. But back in 2012 I mean not a lot of people. So. What was it like you know writing you know bitcoin you know at that point and and what was the industry like yeah.

Andy Bromberg: It was really fun. It was a really small industry like everyone knew each other small set of people. Um and see we got to know a lot of people and many of which are still working in crypto today are working in bitcoin today and it’s been cool to see now a decade of those relationships. Um, build since the early days everyone kind of recognizing that that you were there. You were there early and that’s been that’s been a lot of fun. Um I will say one of the most fun things we did which I alluded to was as this kind of Stanford bitcoin group. We would go to Sand Hill Road which was you know, right? next to our university was. And we would go into investors offices and pitch bitcoin. We weren’t looking for investment ourselves but we were just looking to pitch this technology and saying hey you should be looking at bitcoin you should be funding bitcoin startups. Maybe you should be buying bitcoin yourself and it was fascinating going and pitching vcs on bitcoin in 2012 ah, some people were super receptive. Some people were not receptive whatsoever and thought we were were crazy. Um, and I still get emails to this day. This is now ten years ago I still get emails to this day from investors that we pitched when we were students and coming back and you know wanting to talk about crypto again. Um, and so it was it was a really cool experience to be able to do that. Back then when it was such a nascent nascent technology.

Alejandro Cremades: But probably now they’re calling back to see if you can invite them out for lunch and because they had such a mistake and so now you can’t invest in them and versus the other way around. So So good stuff So now in your case you know you actually started your first company while there Sitewire. So. How did the whole idea of sidewire come about and and yeah, why? Why did you thought it was It was a good idea to go with it.

Andy Bromberg: Sidewire yeah was a company in the media space initially in the political media space where we put the experts together and had the experts chat where everyone else could read and only the experts could talk to each other so kind of like Twitter without the noise if you could have just the experts on Twitter talk to each other and everyone else reading. Um, and obviously it was an election cycle that we’re going into this was kind of 20142016 and so there’s a lot of discussion about politics. We started in that industry the way it came about was that I met my then cofounder Tucker who was a long time and you’d worked in politics for a long time to work in media for a long time. You’d work in social media. Um. And so he was really kind of the industry expert on this space and came and had this idea that he and I started developing together that turned into sidewire and at that point I was kind of the technical side of the operation. He was the the expert on on all things, media and politics. And it was. It was just one of those situations where something comes about because you’ve got someone who’s so deep in an industry that has a thesis about what should be built there and I think that thesis was was right? Maybe a little bit little bit early. But I think it was right? Um, and and we came together and started started building it and in 14.

Alejandro Cremades: Now with sidewire. Um, you know obviously it didn’t end up turning out the way that you guys had hoped for. But I’m sure that this was pivotbotal for you because as they say you either succeed or you Learn. So Why didn’t it work out the way that you guys had hope for and. What was the lesson that you took with you from that.

Andy Bromberg: Yeah, lot lot of lessons taken away. Peter Thiel has this line I think where he talks about failures being overdetermined. There’s always there’s more than 1 reason for a failure There’s rarely a single kind of bolt of lightning that that kills something and there’s there’s many reasons that things fail and so it’s it’s often hard to isolate it and I think that’s right. Um, and there were a bunch of things. 1 media is just a really tough business and you see this over and over again the discussion when I was running sidewire when you talk to media people was always what is media’s business model gonna be how are we gonna work out a sustainable business model for media. The industry was. Kind of this crashing plane and we’re trying to save it and it’s it’s hard to save a crashing plane and find a way to to get it to take back off. Um, and so I think there was there was certainly some industry stuff. Um, you know I think we tied ourselves to the kind of political cycle because there was opportunity there to grow. Um. And and then of course that cycle is kind of on and off and it’s it’s not always reliable and then probably the biggest thing was that you know we built this product on the premise that people wanted to hear from experts and if we put the experts in conversation with each other that would result in really interesting conversations and then people would be interested in consuming them. What we found in practice was that wanting to listen to experts is a stated preference but not actually an observed preference. What I mean by that is everyone says oh of course if there was a place for me to listen to the experts I would go there and I would listen to them but in practice most people don’t actually want to listen to the experts and they would rather go.

Andy Bromberg: And talk themselves and that’s why something like Twitter is so successful is because people can talk themselves. That’s you know it’s a place for them and so despite you know, asking people hey do you want this and hearing a lot of yeses in practice I think a lot of people were less interested in it as a product because it was less participatory for. For them and that’s ultimately what a lot of people want.

Alejandro Cremades: So then in this case, you know what happened next I’m sure that it was a a tough 1 to swallow what what happened next fine.

Andy Bromberg: So when we we made this decision to wind down wind down sidewire and it was actually incredibly fortuitous. What happened next for me. Personally we we wound down sidewire um and and did that kind of as gracefully as we could and then right as I was starting to think about what would come next an opportunity popped up right in front of me. And that was the opportunity to start and found coin list. Um, and so coin list is this digital asset platform for token sales and all sorts of other digital asset financial services. Um, it’s been built into a really amazing business and at the time it was just spinning out from Angellist. So Angellist had kind of worked on this. Idea of coin list and was ready to spin it out into an independent company and I knew the Angels team I knew the protocol labs team who were also working with angelist on it and they were looking for someone to to lead this new spinout startup. Um, and and so I i. You know, started up there and was the founding Ceo of coin list and began to run run that business which obviously is its whole its own whole story attached to it. But that that popped up right as I was winding down sidewire.

Alejandro Cremades: That’s incredible. Hey 1 door closes on another one opens. So really, really cool now now in this case for the people that are listening to really get it. What ended up being the business model of coin list.

Andy Bromberg: So initially coinless business model. This was in 172 you might remember the ico boom there were all these token sales happening tons of noise in the space. Lots of garbage but but some legitimate projects and coinless set itself out to be the premiere platform for. Digital asset projects to run their token sales that started with the filecoin token sale which was kind of the first marquee one on coinin list and helped to kind of get the company off its off on its feet. Um, and there were a bunch of others that came shortly thereafter blockstack and then eventually salna and celllo and a whole bunch of other token sales. And coin lists model was to be a technology services provider to these projects running token sales and make money off of these projects doing so and that was an incredible business in 2017 when we started in early twenty eighteen straight straight shot rocket ship and then crypto winter hit and. When crypto winter hit token sales just stopped. There’s open like your revenue just goes away. There were no more token sales we had made money off token sales no revenue and so then coinless had to begin to figure out. Well what are we going to do. To keep this business running. We believe that token sales are going to come back at some point when the market returns but in the interim we need to figure some things out and so coinless started to offer this increasingly diversified set of digital asset financial services whether that was not to get 2 in the weeds here but a wrapped bitcoin.

Andy Bromberg: Service exchange service that ended up being really valuable spinning up an exchange product lending products all these different business lines into this really diversified financial services provider and then the market returned token sales came back and that started lifting the company again. Um, and now Coinless has this really diversified. Set of business lines that allows it to do well through through Market cycles. You know, no matter how high or low they go.

Alejandro Cremades: And you’ve you’ve seen obviously the um you know the the whole crypto space developing since you know back 2012 war there was like nothing to like what it is today and those cycles I mean they’re just like so crazy now like when it goes from. From winter to spring to summer to winter and you know also the swings are just like absolutely ridiculous. So so how do you How do you think you know you know people should really think about cycles when it comes to crypto.

Andy Bromberg: Yeah, the fundamental first question you need to ask yourself about cryptomarket cycles is are you fundamentally long-term long this technology or not do you believe this technology is going to be more meaningful in 10 years than it is today. That’s the first question you have to ask yourself. For some people the answer to that question is no, they don’t really believe in the technology they don’t believe it. It has that much of a future and that’s totally fine in which case crypto marketet cycles. You’re just going to see those as kind of speculative bubbles that rise and fall and you know one day it’ll all collapse to to 0 if however, you are fundamentally a believer in this technology which I of course. Count myself in that set the way you need to see these these cycles is just part of the natural evolution and maturation of the asset class and I remember you know my first crypto cycle this happens to everyone I bought a little bit of bitcoin. You know when I first got into the space tiny little bit because I was a broke college student at the time. Um, and then the first cycle happened and I freaked out and I sold a bunch of it because you panic you think it’s over you think you know the space is ending and then it doesn’t end it starts building back and you realize oh wait. You know that I got caught right? this this happens these cycles happen and people wash out and since then I’ve understood you know what cycles are going to come and go and if I fundamentally believe in this technology just hang on just stay in the game survive stay allocated and in the long run if your thesis is right? It’ll all work out for the best. Um.

Andy Bromberg: And so I I think basically everyone in the space follows this pattern where they start panicked highly emotional in their first cycle and then the more cycles you see you just become more and more used to it more more sanguine about about how it works.

Alejandro Cremades: Now in this case I mean you guys raised quite a bit of money How much money do you guys? raise for coin list.

Andy Bromberg: Coin list raised. Well it’s it’s now raised well over one hundred million dollars. Um, over the course of multiple rounds going back. But but yet’s it’s in the in the nine figures.

Alejandro Cremades: And what was that the experience of raising money for a company that you know was involved in a market with such you know, crazy volatility.

Andy Bromberg: You You just have to find people that are similarly convicted about the opportunity in the long term chance What I’ve found now with coinless and then also with with Eco which I’m sure we’ll talk about is that you can find people that are you can find investors that are tourists in. Cyclical industry that are there for the good times then are scared about the bad. That’s actually not a good idea to work with them because when things get bad. It’s going to turn to a really tricky Relationship. You’re going to be sitting there saying it’s fine. The cycle is going to continue but they’re going to be very very concerned. That’s not that’s not great so you need to find people that have that same perspective. Have the same view and say it’s going to work out in the long run that doesn’t mean you don’t need to do challenging things when the times are are Hard. You certainly need to do challenging things when the times are hard but at the same time you just need people who are aligned with that that objective and then it’s just about a meeting of the minds as it is with all all companies and understanding what it will look like to work together. Being transparent about the cyclicality of the business having open conversations about that and finding the people that you want to you want to partner with.

Alejandro Cremades: So incredible stuff what you guys were doing with coin list I mean you know, definitely yeah, a lot of money raised. You know, incredible momentum over a hundred employees or so eventually in 2020 you know that’s really where where you actually started to think hey maybe you know I should I should really jump ship here and you know there was another company that you were you know helping us ah as a founding advisor or perhaps you know on the founding team but but not fully operational. So. What triggered I guess I guess first and foremost how did die that idea that a specific idea or opportunity come knocking initially and then what triggered for you to say I think I got to I got to really take this one on especially when you were. You know in such ah an amazing. You know, writing such an amazing opportunity.

Andy Bromberg: Yeah, it was a really tough decision. So that new opportunity was eco which I’m working on today and eco started in in 172 and it was it was really built around this fundamental premise of recognizing that in today’s financial system. People’s money is not working for them. Working for middlemen. It’s working for all sorts of other people but it is not working for those people and we saw crypto and also just fintech innovation that was happening as a path to putting people’s money back to work for them and building really compelling financial products that were much more aligned with their users. We can talk more about what that means. But. I helped start eco in 17 I helped assemble the kind of founding team put in motion. Got it started with with several other friends and colleagues and then I was running coin list and throughout that time running coin list I was advising eco I was working with eco. Um, and in 2020 like you said I left coin list and went to eco. What did not happen was and I wasn’t sitting at coinless thinking I need to jump ship. In fact, coinless was going great and I definitely was not thinking about jumping ship. But the eco team came to me and said hey we really think you should come in and. Take the reins here. We think you should come and be Ceo of this company and run it that you’ve been advising now for a few years but we think you should do it and you know initially of course I was like I’m good coinless is doing great I’m happy here but the more I dug in the more convicted I was that running eco is actually the right thing for me to do and that’s that was for a few reasons.

Andy Bromberg: First I just fundamentally believe that the power of financial technology whether it’s crypto or other financial technology is to put people’s money back to work for them that is that is the thing. It’s to build more aligned and better financial systems than what we have today and that’s what eco was working on and so I had incredible mission alignment with. This project. The team was incredible. Loved the team had been working with them for years wanted to spend more time with them. Um, and what was happening in 2020 to eco was that it was leaving the r and d phase and entering into just this operational phase. It it kind of figured out as a company what it needed to build. It had early signals of product market fit and it was time to go and build the thing out and operationalize it and that’s the stuff that I’m really good at and so it was one of these situations where I’m looking at it and saying all right huge mission alignment I love the team. There’s signs of it working right now and. What they need is my exact set of skills and when all of those things come together. It’s too hard to say no it just made too much sense and coinless has been a really good spot I had helped build out an incredible team that I had total confidence could continue to take that business and continue to grow it. Um, and so it’s a really tough decision. But ultimately sometimes just something so compelling like that lands in your lap and you you have to say yes and it feels like like life’s work that you need to you need to go and work on and that’s how I ended up taking the gig.

Alejandro Cremades: What happened next right.

Andy Bromberg: Well eco then got on got on its own rocket ship which was really exciting I joined in October of 2020 we’re building a product which is this really simple all in 1 consumer financial product that allows you to take the things that you do in your existing financial life and do them all in 1 place. What I mean by that is that if you have. You’re a normal person like me, you’ve got 12 financial apps on your phone. You’ve got your bank 2 credit card apps cash app venmo coinbase Robin and you’ve got all these products money’s moving between them all the time It’s a huge pain. You’re not benefiting from compounding rewards in them and eco puts that all in 1 place. We’re building towards that and gives you these compounding rewards. And also enables this kind of open rewards currency that we can talk more about and so in 2020, we were just starting to bring that to market. We needed to raise money so we went out and raised an amazing round led by Andreessen Horowitzs crypto their fund. Um, which is which is really great and then just a few months there after is another round. Ah. Led by El Cataran and Activeant capital. Also amazing partners. Um, and just built out the team and built out the product and started to grow really quickly and it was just a really special time that you know the market was strong. We had these these product market fit signals and it was time to hit the gas and and go and so in a matter of matter of you know six months or so we raised $85,000,000 we built up the team. We started to really operationalize and commercialize the product and we’ve been on that on that path ever since we’ve raised just.

Alejandro Cremades: And how much capital have you guys raised to late.

Andy Bromberg: But $100000000 just under a $100,000,000 yeah

Alejandro Cremades: Got it, you were you were talking about a a you know one thing that that that just came to mine is how has it been to pushing this through you know, kind of like a darker macro environment type of thing.

Andy Bromberg: Yeah, it’s it’s a really interesting time. So the number 1 thing for us that matters the most is that eco itself has been has had no direct exposure to or impact to any of the things that have happened so customer funds have remained totally safe and eco of course corporate funds have remained safe like. We’ve we’ve been unimpacted but that doesn’t mean there’s not market headwinds that we need to contend with and people being skeptical of new financial products because they’re finding out that some of the ones they used have been fraudulent as we’re or illegal as we’re learning in in the past few months um and so for us, it’s all about just refocusing on. Our mission to put people’s money back to work for them to do no financial harm and to help people build as much wealth as possible make the right decisions on behalf of our users and just go and execute and you know you can get caught up in thinking about the market conditions and oh it’s so hard and you know pitying yourself for having to work through that. But the reality is the biggest winners in these cyclical markets are those that are able to just keep building through the dark times and you know I’ve I’ve seen that now with a number of companies. It happened with coin list. It happened with you know, coinbase the leading kind of us company in in the crypto space. The companies that are able to invest and grow and build through the winters when summer comes again. It’s really powerful to be in that position of having been building and you know people come and go in the space when the times are good. Um, but if you’re able to work through the winters. That’s when that’s when the real opportunity is for people. So.

Andy Bromberg: Just refocusing on that message making sure we all really feel that and then doing the right thing and continuing to build is is really all that matters.

Alejandro Cremades: So imagine you were to go to sleep tonight and and you wake up in a world where the vision of ecom is fully realized what does that world look like.

Andy Bromberg: World looks like a few things one every single person in the world has access to the best financial services available in the world all in 1 really simple place that isn’t a headache to manage but everyone has access to that. And we’re no longer kind of stratifying financial services by where you live or by your socioeconomic class or anything like that. But you have access to these this best set of financial services in the world everywhere. That’s one piece and the second piece is that the vision of eco’s open rewards currency is also realized and we have this. Realization that there’s so much value in rewards ecosystems in the American Express or chase points ecosystems or the American Airlines ecosystem or any of these rewards ecosystems the Starbucks ecosystem but each of them are walled gardens where you earn value in this little walled garden. You can only use it in that walled garden. And those companies endlessly and senselessly devalue your earnings they give you points. They give you rewards for earning and then they devalue them and we believe that there’s a better world possible where there could be a reward system that is open where you’re able to earn your points somewhere and then you’re able to actually move them out and that. System allows you to be flexible with how you use your points and removes the ability for that single central party to arbitrarily devalue those points and change the thing that you’ve actually earned and so in the long run if we’re ultimately successful everyone in the world will have access to the best financial services available in the world and.

Andy Bromberg: we’ll be using a single open rewards currency that’s usable everywhere and is flexible and isn’t devalued in a way that so many rewards currencies today are.

Alejandro Cremades: And for the people that are listening to get an idea on the size of eco to today I mean anything that you can share you know in terms of maybe number of employees or anything that you’re comfortable sharing.

Andy Bromberg: The team right now is about 60 people. Um, we’ve built a really strong team. We’re working to stay lean and be able to just continue executing as as strong as we can, especially through this this bear market. Um, and yet we’re we’re trying to stay around there for now and and just keep building.

Alejandro Cremades: I love that now for the for the for for the people that are listening. You know I’m sure that they will love to hear you know your answer to this imagine if I was to put you into a time machine and I bring you back in time I bring you back. Perhaps to the moment where. You were you know a student in Stanford and team imagine you were able to have a chat you know with that younger selfvan give that younger aunty one piece of advice before launching a company. What would that be and why given what you know now.

Andy Bromberg: Can I give you 2 pieces of advice I’ve got 2 for myself 1 is starting a company is an enormous commitment and you should only do it if you are deeply deeply deeply passionate about what it is that you’re working on the reason I say that is that.

Alejandro Cremades: Let’s do it. Let’s do it.

Andy Bromberg: Well sidewire was an amazing learning experience for me and I walked away at the timen I don’t regret doing it at all I wasn’t that passionate about the work that we were actually doing I was really interested in the idea of starting a startup at the time and learning and working with this amazing cofounder that that had kind of landed my life and that was great. But it’s it’s hard to put everything you need to put into something if you aren’t deeply passionate about what exactly you’re working on and so I might have done that differently if I were able to rewind time I don’t regret doing it but I might do it might do it differently and so that’s 1 big piece of advice and the second big piece of advice which I would give myself. But you can’t really learn until you felt it is the absolute requirement to focus endlessly on the quality of your team on raising the bar and on building just a hell yes team that is exceptional and talented and you can’t overstate how important. That is how that’s foundational to everything and with every year of my life I’ve gotten more and more rigorous about the talent that I require you know to work with and people that I want to surround myself with and um and I it took me ah a little while to learn that learn that lesson I think that I always had a high bar but. Pushing that bar as high as you possibly can is is the only way to build something. Great.

Alejandro Cremades: I Love that So andi for the people that are listening that will love to reach out and say hi. What is the best way for them to do so.

Andy Bromberg: Twitter at Andy Underscore Bromberg is probably easiest or I’m just Andy At Eco Dot Com and would love to hear from people.

Alejandro Cremades: Amazing! Well hey Andy thank you so much for being on the deal maker so it has been an honor to have you with us.

Andy Bromberg: Thanks for having me really appreciate it.

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