Neil Patel

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Alex Furman, the co-founder and CEO of Performica and co-founder of Invitae, has had an intriguing journey from his birthplace in the Soviet Union to leading two successful tech-based ventures and a nonprofit supporting Ukrainian refugees.

In this episode, you will learn:

  • Alex’s journey from the Soviet Union to the United States
  • His early struggles with depression and the decision to drop out of college
  • The self-taught path to software engineering and fintech
  • The creation of Invitae and Performica
  • His innovative approach to business and team building
  • The future of Performica and its impact on personalized health and performance optimization


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    About Alex Furman:

    Alex Furman is the cofounder and CEO of Performica. He is based out of San Francisco, California, United States and previously worked at Invitae as Co-Founder, Products, Technology, Culture.

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    Connect with Alex Furman:

    Read the Full Transcription of the Interview:

    Alejandro Cremades: Already hello everyone and welcome to the dealmakerr show. So we have a very exciting founder. You know a founder that has done it a few times you know the last one you know he actually took that to twelve Billion market cuts so unbelievable and now he’s on a rocket ship and we’re going to be learning a lot. Learning a lot about all the good stuff that we like to hear and I’m sure that you’re gonna find his journey quite inspiring so without fartherdo. Let’s welcome. Our guest today Alex formanu so welcome to the show. So originally born in the Soviet Union

    Alex Furman: Um, hey thanks for having us.

    Alejandro Cremades: And you ended up coming here to the Us you know, eventually so give us a walk through memory lane. How was life growing up.

    Alex Furman: Um, that’s why.

    Alex Furman: So again I was I was born born on 79 in the soviet union and wound up leaving to come to the us on the very tail end of a jewish refugee movement out of the soviet union and honestly, ah, the most striking part of that experience that that I do a lot of reflecting on right now is that overnight I got on a plane and I went from being a discriminated against minority and like very very seriously disc guy against minority to now being a paul straight white guy. That’s something that really sticks with me and I think about all the time I was 11.

    Alejandro Cremades: How old were you when you came to the us wow. So I mean obviously you know like you were very much aware of everything that was happening around you. So how would you say that all that experience. Really shaped you who you are today because I’m sure that dealing with that the uncertainty going to a new country making you friends you know I’m sure that that’s shaped you quite a bit.

    Alex Furman: Well honestly, there is so much trauma right? The other thing that I forgot to mention is that my mom died of cancer about three months before we got on the plane so that combined with immigration really sent me for a loop to the point that.

    Alejandro Cremades: Um, wow.

    Alex Furman: I have very few memories of my first few years yeah

    Alejandro Cremades: Wow. And obviously you know like going through that roller course store of emotions you know, especially when you ended up going to college you know years later you know you also were you know I guess dealing dealing with with depression now and you ended up dropping out. So so.

    Alex Furman: Um, oh yeah, um.

    Alejandro Cremades: Tell us about this journey too because I guess you know they say that the past causes depression The future causes anxiety. So I guess how did you you know, ah come out. You know of that depression and and and and a high note.

    Alex Furman: I mean again, this was a really rough passion my life I went to college frankly for a lack of better of of having anything better to do like I I didn’t have a plan I was floundering and and while I was there I just kind of couldn’t get it together. And back to my background I grew up in a place where you didn’t get like ah you didn’t get psychological help and yeah, especially as a man right? My in typically like men don’t talk about their feelings. It’s a very It’s a very stoic culture in many ways and. Again, given that my father was a single father with with with three kids who was doing as best to support us like it’s really clear to me right now that I didn’t get the help that I need and I kind of floundered for years before picking myself back up.

    Alejandro Cremades: So how do you? How? what? what? what? What was that breakthrough moment for you to come out of that rough patch.

    Alex Furman: And was Ralph.

    Alex Furman: Well I don’t know that there was a moment what I did have is a wonderful community between my own friends and and my parents’ friends and the people I got to know I was surrounded by incredibly inspiring, inspiring people. And also incredibly supportive people like I for for a bunch of that time post dropping out of college I was essentially almost homeless I I was sleeping on couches at friends houses and again the community really like came around support on mia.

    Alejandro Cremades: Um, yeah.

    Alex Furman: I wasn’t easy to support I wasn’t easy to deal with back then but I was surrounded by both love and and and frankly inspiration and I think slowly I came out and came around.

    Alejandro Cremades: You know one thing that is really incredible too is that entrepreneurship involves depression and I don’t think that many entrepreneur entrepreneurs talk about it and the fact that they you Deald with it. You know before you became on on entrepreneur I think that it gives you an edge. No, it gives you an edge so that you get to know yourself, you get to know you know like that sometimes you know that mental you know gear you know needs to be polished and and I think that founders you know they don’t They don’t really take care much. You know of their mental. You know being until they hit a wall. Right? And that’s why you know like we all, you know have a it dealt with a person myself included too. You know as as an entrepreneur too. So I Guess I Guess when when it comes to that You know what have you learned you know about depression you know that perhaps you know if if in the future you know it was. You know there was a triggering event or something you know like you will be able to have that muscle to be able to you know, Overcome. Whatever, whatever challenge is thrown at you.

    Alex Furman: Well I hate a couple of things. But first of all to be clear I haven’t dealt of depression. This is something that’s been a part of my life all my life and will continue being a part of my life I think maybe the key difference now is that I know how to ask for help and I have. Ah, wonderful support network and a whole lot of coping mechanisms that I’ve developed over ah years between my friends and my coworkers and and my wife who is like a critical support structure on this. Ah for the mosts part I’m now able to catch myself early and and don’t let myself spal out of control. But it’s ah that’s ah it’s a constant struggle for me and I think for a lot of people and you’re right? That’s not talked about all that much especially in this sort of like culture of of putting heroic entrepreneur entrepreneur viewers up on the pit piano still ah that isn’t really reflective of reality in my experience.

    Alejandro Cremades: Um, yeah.

    Alejandro Cremades: Um, yeah.

    Alex Furman: We all struggle.

    Alejandro Cremades: Now big now mean people read too much the media outlets and they look at how glamorous it is to ah build and scale a company but you know they they struggle you know, embracing it. You know is real and the roller coaster of emotions too. Um, so I guess in your case Alex. You know you ended up landing in the world of fintech and you did that for about 8 to 9 years as a software engineer I guess you know like what got you into into engineering you know in first place you know what was saying that that thing that got you into it that love for software engineering.

    Alex Furman: well well honestly a combination a combination of factors I’ve been playing around of software writing software since I was a kid both my father and my mother were software computer scientists or ever in software engineering years in the. Back in the Soviet Union so so I grew up around that sort of thing and and I had a knack for it. But honestly, frankly, look it was the year late 1999 two thousand I needed a job I could program this was but.comboom was still going strong. And initially it was just a way for me to make money doing what I kind of know how to do.

    Alejandro Cremades: So then obviously you know you get into the world of fintech but eventually you know after 8 to 9 years doing it. You know you you you were not really into it anymore. You know you you you decided that it was time to shift gear. So why.

    Alex Furman: Well, ah again and I think I I frankly I had a bit of a quarter life crisis in my and the ripe old age of like 25 is it really hit me about life as short and that we don’t have that much time and frankly we don’t know how much time we have. And that while the technical side of what I was doing was absolutely fascinating challenging and wonderful at the end of a day like moving other people’s money around wasn’t a passion of mine and and economics in general wasn’t a passion of mine. So I started looking for about passion and I landed in clinical genetics and biotech to basically apply but to try to apply my skills to making people be healthier.

    Alejandro Cremades: So Then so then talk to us about this because obviously you know you landed in in Biotech and you were there at a company that there was something that that seemed off to you and then that pushed you towards making a presentation at a board level. And that was your push into on Entrepreneurship. So So walk us through those sequence of events that needed to happen.

    Alex Furman: Yeah, and to be clear at that point and time not only was I not thinking of myself as an entrepreneur like starting a company was kind of beyond the real of possibilities like it was completely outside. It felt that like. It never fell to me I never even consider doing it myself as so something that other people do ah but I was at ah at a company sorry I was I was I was leading engineering at a company called Negentics which was a wonderful idea that didn’t pan out. I it was a perfectly perfectly reasonable thing but the business model didn’t work and when I realized that the business model didn’t work and started talking about it with with key colleagues with our shioo at the time with our with our chief scientist. We basically over time came up with an idea to tack what navigenics was doing and to like specifically into clinical gerline genetics as and and that plan was developed to basically take to the board and and attempt to take. Ah, wonderful team of people the funding we still had and basically ah changed business models to do something that that would work and the the board didn’t go for it. so so so that didn’t happen ah and by the time the board didn’t go for it. We were so in love with the idea.

    Alex Furman: That we basically resigned and decided to go for go with us on my own and to be clear on that and to be clear on that team I was kind of a junior cofounder in the sense that the people the 3 other people I wound up starting and vi were far more accomplished than me. Ah. Yeah, and far more experience than me. Ah, and frankly Tovas day kind of blows me away that they took me seriously but they did.

    Alejandro Cremades: So so so obviously you got started you know with Impitai and and and and for the people that are listening to get it. What ended up being I bitai.

    Alex Furman: So and Vta is a clinical genetic information company and to does day a a market leader in clinical genetics like most most clinical genetic tests in the in the fields where Nv take plays like.

    Alejandro Cremades: Like.

    Alex Furman: Go to the and detail laboratory Even data is analyzed by Andta and the clinical report just turned around. We started with diagnosing or predicting hereditary cancer syndromes and then expanded out basically ah just about everything at the intersection of genetics and wellness.

    Alejandro Cremades: And obviously and always a you know incredible run that you guys have there I guess you know before you guys went public. What was that the journey of raisingcing money for for a company like inviti.

    Alex Furman: Over the years

    Alex Furman: It was it was rough and again we were we were doing this on 20102011 which was a terrible time to start companies and or or rather a very difficult time to raise money it was ah in in many ways. It was a good time to start companies if you could. It took us about a year we had the spreadsheet of basically all of the potential investors who could invest it in eday and over the course of that year as we were working on this full time and kind of eating for our savings we got. Towards we had thought we got toward the end of that spreadsheet so we got about 116 nos and the one hundred and seventeenth meeting we had with a venture called fundt called Thomas Mcnerry and partners. Ah. Ended up with with with a term sheet on a deal and we were finally able to get going.

    Alejandro Cremades: So then so then how did that you know evolve all the way. Um, prior to the ipo because I mean obviously you guys did several you know, financing cycles. So how how did the those financing cycles I mean how much did you guys raise prior to the ipo.

    Alex Furman: That’s right.

    Alejandro Cremades: And how did those financing cycles in a evolved in parallel with the life cycles of the company. Do.

    Alex Furman: Yeah, so so the initial raise was $5000000 or five point three million dollars see I don’t even remember the details anymore and in in a couple of tranches and initially we saw ourselves as a technology development company. So we didn’t think that we would have the kind of access to capital and basically the ability to become a political player ah to really play in the political space. So initially the thought was that we’re going to develop a technology and then and then find somebody else to apply that technology and take it to market. And we spent the first couple of years doing just that. Ah, so we were we were working on making an end to end process from from from blood or saliva all the way to relevant political report work and then a whole bunch of stars. A alive and.

    Alejandro Cremades: Channel and.

    Alex Furman: As Ah, as the stars aligned it became clear about like we actually can. Um we we got to this crossroads where where we could either sell the company and we could sell the company or we could really make a go for it as a as a as an actual player in the clinical Space. We chose the Latter. We never thought we’d get that opportunity but we did get that opportunity. It was like both scary and exciting and and we went for it.

    Alejandro Cremades: So Then let’s talk about going public because obviously you guys say bring this to a rocket ship and then all of a sudden you guys decide to take the company public and and I mean really really incredible being able to to do So So How was how was that journey like of ah. You know, taking this ringing the bell and and then all of a sudden here. You are and an immigrant you know and the founder of ah of um you know $12000000000 a company that at the peak you know had a $12000000000 valuation.

    Alex Furman: It was bizarre and it was a very bizarre experience and to be clear like my pipe I definitely played a part on that but it was a team effort and and my role that like was important and but I would say secondary not the sort of 2 by old hor entirely too much. Ah, but.

    Alejandro Cremades: Um, yeah.

    Alex Furman: Look I I mean let you I’ll I’ll tell you that story when when we finally got a date for when we’re going to get on a plane and and ring that Bell I fell down with a pretty serious case of pneumonia.

    Alejandro Cremades: Um, wow.

    Alex Furman: I could barely get out of bed and then I went to my doctor and I told my doctor hey look I have to get on those jets and fly to New York and ring the bell and my doctor yelled at b she started and she’s hard telling you but like I like this is a risk to my life and that like you I shouldn’t be getting on a plane and I remember i. I almost never yell but I remember raising my voice back at her trying to tell her like what was this is a once in a lifetime opportunity. This is something that like never really happens and I I get a chance to you so I am getting on that plane and like what I need from you is to prescrib be anything and everything.

    Alejandro Cremades: Ah.

    Alex Furman: You can do to like deresk a situation because I’m doing it so she kind of shrued her shru her shoulders and prescribed me a whole bunch of things and I did get on that plane when we were up at the balcony at the New York Stock Exchange and my my cofounder and Ceo Sean was like actually physically ringing the bell. I was like holding on to the person next to me because I thought I could I’d fall down so that’s.

    Alejandro Cremades: Wow. And obviously you know like you were not feeling at your best day health wise but they but I’m sure that there were a lot of emotions going through your head too.

    Alex Furman: Yeah, now was it was sivvial. It was a very very sural experience. It feels like dream.

    Alejandro Cremades: But was going through your head but were some of the thoughts that were going through your head when that a bell was ringing.

    Alex Furman: Well that it was it was it was actually happening 1 thing again that I’ll admit to right now I would have never admitted to a back then I was all chips in into starting a company building of a company doing all the things. Because I was in love with the idea I was in love of a mission I wanted to make it happen so much. But you know what? I don’t know that I ever really believed that it would happen like I was I was doing my best by. Some combination of like my impostor syndrome and who a hell am I and and and like these sorts of things don’t happen to people like me and really like getting on that plane getting up on that balcony and and going through the ritual. Made it real in a way that again I can only describe it se weekly I was it was it was it. It was it was a surre experience. It’s crazy.

    Alejandro Cremades: I can’t imagine I can’t imagine now now in your case you know. Basically 1 thing led to the next and you ended up you know, stumbling across hr you know as part of one of the initiatives that that you were performing and and pushing there. You know as part of the company and and that. Ended up being you know a spinoff of what you’re pushing today. So so give us ah a little of ah um of a sense of how did that incubation of performing ah happen all the way to you seeing clear that it was time to do a spinoff and and push this thing you know. Ah, independent.

    Alex Furman: That’s a lot stories. So so like hr landed on my labp and it landed on my lab because we were in this interesting place for our company basically struggling with hypergrove so but business was working but technology was working again. We were planning out our Ipo.

    Alejandro Cremades: Are.

    Alex Furman: But at the same time to put things in perspective that year we went from 20 people to just under a couple of hundred and organizationally we were tearing ourselves apart. We weren’t prepared for a growth decisions weren’t getting made corporate politics were emerging or everything was kind of grinding to a halt. And it scared me I was I was afraid that we’re basically we’re we’re about to. We’re about to mess us up and in what I thought was a temporary crisis management exercise I wound up taking on hr and basically spitting off the like the HR. we called it organizational development back then because I thought of it as much broader than just h basically spinning up that function and and then I spent the next year or so managing the company out of an organizational crisis and. Again to be clear like had somebody told me even a year ago that like I like a soviet war grumpy software ju year would wind up a chief fee officer of a publicly trade advisor that company would have laughed at them. Ah, but here you heard here I was and there’s.

    Alejandro Cremades: Are.

    Alex Furman: They say right? There’s no that there’s no such thing. Ah as a as a temporary there’s There’s no such thing as a temporary solution. So what I thought was a crisis ban but exercise turned into the next many years of my life as we continued building the company into again a market leader in the political space and a truly global commercial presence.

    Alex Furman: Hired thousands of people reorganized multiple times in order to meet the challenges of a day and it was both fascinating and incrediblyly rewarding and I completely fell in love with the space.

    Alejandro Cremades: So then so then how did you all of us are then you know see clearly that the perform ah needed to do a spinoff.

    Alex Furman: Yeah, so yeah, maybe a little bit a little bit of a prior story. So 2016 ish and we’re now publicly traded and we’re out of a crisis and we’re humming along ah through through sustained growth at this point.

    Alex Furman: I started ah looking for the right tools to basically enable me to do my job well and what struck me is that all of hr tools back then and this is still largely to today look at organizations through silos right? You the the fundamental model is the or chart right? It’s it’s. Business units functional teams reporting relationships budget. Owners is kind of it’s this accounting base view of the organization that wasn’t meeting my needs like all of the things that I cared about at the time or most of the things that I cared about at the time didn’t happen. Vertically they happen through these networks. And I asked the team of hundred years to start building the software system that maps out those networks and that shows me how work is getting done in real time and who is working with whom and that turned out to be incredibly valuable to us and growing the company. A couple of years later a year and a half later I started playing around of turning it into a product because it was so I gave it away to a few other organizations to use like no strings attached for free. We didn’t have the infrastructure to charge for it but people wound up using it and that went really well. And and we then knew that like this isn’t just an internal tool. This isn’t just idiosyncratic to and vita this is a powerful tool to make organizations better across the board and then fast forward to late Twenty Twenty two where in vta.

    Alex Furman: Really started struggling through a combination of the biotech markets crashing in the public sector and basically a combination of events. Ah we went from a $12000000000 market capf to just under 1000000 just under a billion on. With that came a whole bunch of organizational change and it also became clear that the side project of mine is no longer sustainable in this new reality. We can’t fund it anymore and and then it hit me that I’m actually having much more fun with that than I am with my day job. And that’s when I basically switched to on 1 hand negotiating a spinout to take a technology and the team and an independent entity and and. Then looking for a new chief people officer and and sort of training and transitioning.

    Alejandro Cremades: So then in this case, you know perform a becomes now a reality you know you become the counder and C of the business and day I guess for the people that are listening to get it. What ended up being the business model of Performinga and how are you guys making money.

    Alex Furman: So again, we’re a business to business software as a service solution the core of perform like ah is what we call the or graph which is again this view of how work actually gets done in the organization who is working with whom on what in real time and that you there’s there’s. Actually a tremendous number of use cases. You can we have modules that help or that help our customers identify top-performing employees that they otherwise wouldn’t have known maybe because we’re quiet. There is a differentiated an Unc Incrediblydedly powerful feedback and performance management solution. That solves like the fundamental problem of feedback systems by knowing who to ask by by being able to like ask the right people the right questions at the right time based on how work is happening and that’s the business. So We we help our customers. Have a real time like X-ray vision like view of our workforce who is working with whom on what how? well and then on top of that we build multiple modules that that solve specific problems from performance management to employee listening to. Change management and so on and so forth.

    Alejandro Cremades: And I’m sure that it hasn’t been that that hard to raise money and being a second time founder you’ve raised some money and.

    Alex Furman: You know? Yes, ah, yes, and no so it’s certainly helped and certainly it was much easier than the last time around but I have a pattern here where where 2011 was a really difficult ti to their Ace Capital yeah like with the very tail end of 2022 beginning of this year was also a difficult planetary capital but but but it went well we did well we have a wonderful team of investors on board that are like so supportive and like like both incredibly supportive but also wonderful resources so wasn’t as easy as you would think. Ah, but but we got it done and here we are.

    Alejandro Cremades: Now imagine that you were to go to sleep tonight and you wake up in a world where the vision of performing I is fully realized what does that world look like.

    Alex Furman: Oh look so here let be ah the big question that and I’ll start from with office. So So so look we all know that or or at least we think we know that for most businesses out there people are a greatest asset. Certainly the most expensive asset in most cases. But most companies spend up upward towards 75% of our budget on either direct or indirect people expenses. Ah and so people people are incredibly important. But.

    Alex Furman: And and and we all have the goal of being people centric and how we run our businesses again a state a goal of people be being people centric on how we’re out our businesses but but but we think of our businesses again the way accountants do about like Ruby like verticals and silos and budget owners that don’t. Like but that’s not how work gets done That’s not how innovative workouts gets done like companies don’t actually work out me and this leads us to this fascinating place. Where for example, like if I were to sell you a t-shirt. By the time you’re seeing my ad I’m talking to you in a hyper personalized way I know a lot about you and I’m tailoring but my communications time or that alley proposition to you very very direct but if you think about how organizations and especially large organizations. Talk to our employees. We do this through like all company and departmental memos that nobody reads like stale intra internet sites that nobody goes to and I know nobody goes to it because I was responsible for our internet site all hands meetings that are actually effective but that we stuff too much information to and nobody really retains anything. And and if you think about it going back to my t-shirt analogy we’ hyper personalized. We’re very sophisticated and we sell each other $20 things. We don’t need but when we talk to our employees who are whose value to us over a course of our lifetime is easily on us own figures for high performers.

    Alex Furman: We basically do the equivalent of spam on the mail and ads in the yellow pages and then we’re surprised that people don’t understand how their work fits into the mission and that they become disengaged and that like corporate dysfunction results. And we because we’re not like we’re not actually people-centric and we’re we’re and and what perform enables again through understanding how people actually work how people actually communicate like for real it allows us to be truly people centric and our and how we communicate with people and how we think about. Promotions leadership training succession planning career pathing all of these things and a truly human centric view of Org enables. All of that and and ultimately at the end of a day like the tragedy of. Where one of the tragedies of business is that most companies are good companies. Most management teams are full of great people trying to do good things but it doesn’t reach individual employees and so so but people doing the work often feel like cogs and this machine and are stuck in office politics. And their incentives are misaligned and and we can fix all that and we can fix all that in in turn the many many hours we spend working like I spend more time at work than I do of my wife and kids not to mention my friends and.

    Alex Furman: We can. We can make it better and we could at the end of a day make people happier and happier people and more productive and more productive people come up with innovative products and technologies and and there’s a virtual.. There’s a virtuous cycle to be created here and. Truly understanding how people work together like is the key I believe strongly is the key to unlocking a virtual cycle.

    Alejandro Cremades: I love that so now I’ve been asking you for the future here but I want to ask you about the past and doing it with a lens of reflection. So let’s say I put you into a time machine Alex and I bring you back in time to that moment where. You know you were thinking about maybe like branching off and entering the venture world and and doingai and and you had the opportunity of having a chat with your younger self right? before you were about to give that resignation letter and let’s say you had the opportunity of whispering. To your ear to the younger self ear and giving that younger self than younger Alex one piece of advice before launching a business but would that be and why given what you know now.

    Alex Furman: I think would have to do oh and yeah, yeah, no I know exactly what the answer is so what I would tell my younger self is to spend. Like do the work through a combination of of therapy and training and reflecting and thinking and basically ah flip the way I operated from being driven by anxiety and fear and imposter syndrome and and and and not being good enough. Ah to working from a place of inspiration. The thing is that that I spent years decades of my life being mostly anxiety driven and and and mostly ah, most of the things I was doing were. In response to my my inferiority complex and and some some vision of the perfect self I was I was completely unrealistic and that was that I would never become and I was kind of bouncing around between trying to reach a completely unreachable ideal of like but perfect Alex that doesn’t exist and can’t exist. And feeling like a complete and not our failure and may up until a certain point and it certainly gave me and and it made me productive but it made me productive in a freatic and and painful way that then translate ah to my teammates to our employees to my family.

    Alex Furman: Ah, to my own sort of lack of sleep and over time and with a lot of help I learned to not perfectly, not completely but mostly flip that to work from a place of inspiration and had I done that earlier I would have done better. The people around me would have been Happier. I would have been less miserable I I wish I learned that sooner and it took almost ailing I was I was this close to burnting out and honestly probably getting fired by the time I figured this out and it like.

    Alejandro Cremades: I hear him.

    Alex Furman: There was a magic wand and if I could push that moment. Ah pull that moment earlier in my life is things things things would have gotten better for me but also for for people around.

    Alejandro Cremades: Well I love it Alex well thank you so much for being on the dealmaker show and before we wrap it up I just want to ask you for the people that are listening. What is the best way for them to reach out and say hello.

    Alex Furman: Alex at performaka.com send me an email I I am very reachable and and and very responsive.

    Alejandro Cremades: Well easy novel Alex thank you so much. It has been such an honor to have you with us today.

    Alex Furman: Thank you so much Alex El Hondro but sorry thank you so much a andra but it’s been a pleasure.

    *****

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