Aengus Tran saw healthcare as a field where he could do something worthwhile, and really add value with his life and work. His startup has already raised over $100M as they transform medicine at scale. The company, Harrison. AI has attracted funding from top-tier investors like Horizons Ventures, Skip Capital, I-Med Network Technology, and Blackbird Ventures.
In this episode, you will learn:
- Launching a startup with your brother
- How Harrison and Annalise.ai is impacting lives
- How machine learning is changing healthcare at scale
- Fundraising and pitching investors
- Aengus Tran’s top advice for launching a company, and building a team
Interested in sponsoring this show or podcast ads for your business? Go to Zencastr and fill out the contact information so Zencastr can help you, bring your business story to life.
For a winning deck, take a look at the pitch deck template created by Silicon Valley legend, Peter Thiel (see it here) that I recently covered. Thiel was the first angel investor in Facebook with a $500K check that turned into more than $1 billion in cash.
The Ultimate Guide To Pitch Decks
Moreover, I also provided a commentary on a pitch deck from an Uber competitor that has raised over $400 million (see it here).
Remember to unlock for free the pitch deck template that is being used by founders around the world to raise millions below.
About Aengus Tran:
Trained at UNSW, Dr. Tran is a medical doctor and world-ranked Al engineer and data scientist. He invented IVY, the breakthrough Al model that uses machine learning to assist in selecting the best embryo for IVF treatment. In 2018, Dr. Tran and his brother, Dimitry launched Harrison.ai; an Al company dedicated to making healthcare more efficient and affordable for patients through meaningful collaboration with clinicians.
See How I Can Help You With Your Fundraising Efforts
- Fundraising Process : get guidance from A to Z.
- Materials : our team creates epic pitch decks and financial models
- Investor Access : connect with the right investors for your business and close them
Connect with Aengus Tran:
Read the Full Transcription of the Interview:
Hey, guys. Today’s episode is brought to you by Zencastr. I remember back in the day when I was looking at putting together Zencastr. I was looking for a solution that would help me in putting things together. Essentially, this is what allowed me to bring DealMakers to life. Basically, Zencastr, what it is is an all-in-one solution where you just send a link to the person that you’re looking to interview. They would plug in their computer with their video, with the audio, and then you are good to go. You would piece everything together, give it to your audio engineer or even edit it yourself, and you are off to the races. Now, if you’re looking at getting into podcasting, you should definitely check Zencastr out, and you could also get a 30% discount, and this is the discount code that you will be able to redeem by going to Zen.ai/dealmakers0. Lastly, I was very much blown away when I found out that investing in wine has been one of the best-kept secrets amongst the wealthy. This is now not the case anymore. I came across this solution, which is called VinoVest, and they are a great solution that allows you to diversify investing by implementing or including wines into your portfolio. Take a look at this: wine has one-third of the volatility of the stock market, and yet it has outperformed the global equities market over the past 30 years with 10.6% annualized revenues. It’s a really good way to diversify your portfolio, and you could also get two months of free investing by just going to Zen.ai/dealmakers, and by going there, you will be able to redeem your discount.
* * * * * *
Alejandro: All righty hello everyone and welcome to the dealmaker show. So I’m very excited about our guest Today. We’re gonna be talking a lot about the healthcare care you know side of things I think that we’re gonna be learning a lot about you know going from being a doctor to being a founder to now scaling you know and. And building and and making things happen. So I guess you name it. So I guess with south farther do let’s welcome our guests today angus strand welcome to the show. So originally born in Vietnam but eventually you were shipped to Australia by your parents. So.
Aengus Tran: Thanks for having me.
Alejandro: Give us a walk through memory lane. How was life growing up.
Aengus Tran: You know, live growing up was was very fun in Hochumin City vietnam a family of 2 math teachers and my parents was very ah focused on learning and development growing up as you would imagine being 2 math teachers. My dad has always been a bit of a tinkerer. Even though he’s a math teachers. He he like computer science. One of our uncle from France actually ship us a early computer and with that my dad learned a lot about computing so he he taught me a lot about that. He actually wrote a bunch of books about programming in pascal. So growing up always tinkering always learn about programming um and and that’s you know what? that childhood looked like you know, always making things. Um and you know I think during that time in Vietnam one of the thing that I also get to see was the health system in Hooummin City Vietnam so I was sick when I was a child for various illnesses and I always end up in the hospital. Um, and when I was there I really see the stock differences in terms of what healthcare system of the world was really looking like and what really strike me at the time was it’s not really about the lack of resources. You know it’s um. If if we want to, we can build a hospital. We can put more machine in that hospital and then that’s what I was seeing. You know we could go to private hospital and and pay extra for quite good facility but at the same time. The the thing that was really lacking was the human element. There was just not enough good doctors around and and that was the experience growing up for me. You know. Ah, born between technology and healthcare and and that’s that’s what led me to to Sydney with with that background in mind.
Alejandro: So how was say then is starting to become a doctor because and also like why you know becoming a doctor I mean how how do you? How do you get to that point.
Aengus Tran: Yeah, you know I was doing okay at school here and in in Sydney Australia and you know I was at the point where I was thinking about what I should do with my life. You know like any you know, seventeen Eighteen year old kid would at the time I was quite dead set on becoming an engineer I always been. A builder I like to make things so I thought software engineering is as good as anything because you know was it very magical right? You can make something out of nothing. You don’t need to to have any material you know with just your mind you can create whatever it is. You can dream of and at the time it was quite dead set on that. But I was quite lucky to connect with Mr Paul Ramsey so Paul Ramsey is one of the most wealthy australian he he found Ramsey Healthcare which is like large private hospital group 500 hospital across the world and you know what what? that. What Paul told me was you know angus what do you want to to build with software engineering right? You need to have a purpose what you want to do for the world and say I actually don’t know yet, you know I’m I’m I’m 18 you know I haven’t seen enough of the world yet to understand and that’s when he remind me of you know Don don’t you think the health system of the world. Um, is a worthwhile thing for you to focus your time on and I said you know that you hundred percent right health is one of the biggest problems of our time with the aging population and recent event. We’re really reminded on how fragile our health system really is. Ah, yet, we are solving health with some of the least scalable technology and that’s the human training people to do things is one of the least scalable technology that we that civilization possess. But so you know were you solving something so big with something that is so unscalable. So that why I decide to to study Medicine I got to University Of New South Wales in Sydney and spent 6 years undergrad program to learn to become a doctors so that’s the journey of how ah a kid in in Vietnam who was into technology ended up being ah, studying to be a doctor in Sydney.
Alejandro: And what it’s like to become a doctor there in Australia.
Aengus Tran: You know I think the the the health system here in Australia is I believe it’s a bit bias but it’s one of the best in the world. It is funded by the government and the health facility here is really fantastic. We also have some of the best. Hospital and specialists in the world. So learning to be our doctors in Australia was such an eyeopening experience I get to learn what modern medicine really is some of the most advanced treatment. It’s a most cutting edge technology and and and that is you know some of the best. Tom you know going in in Australia to learn about all that I really fall in love with medicine the human nature of it being in the hospital in Sydney and and sitting at the bedside with the patient being in his surgical theaters and and see amazing surgery being done some some surgical procedure has only been done in Australia. So toul was fascinating learning medicine but at the same time every holiday because my family was doing hochumun city. So um, when when school was over for a year you know I didn’t get to travel much I go home and and spend time with with parents and family. I also spent time in hospital in Vietnam during during the holiday and doing some more learning but at the same time and and doing that experience I really saw the differences between health system in Vietnam and health system in Australia and the differences was really around the the capacity of. Of doctors how how many skill condition is really there. What I was seeing in Vietnam is that people was not really dying or suffering from you know the the we and wonderful disease that you see in Grey Anatomy a doctor house. You know people were suffering from basic things like.
Aengus Tran: Pneumonia heart failures stuff that you know I learned within a couple of years of med school on how to treat manage. But the the really the big challenges is There’s not enough facility capacity to look after them properly so people show up with really severe illnesses. And after a couple of years of that back and forth journey in Vietnam and Australia and seeing that contrast I start to realize that medicine is not about doing heroic thing. It’s about doing very simple thing but doing it perfectly and doing it consistently day in and day out for everybody. Um, so that really changed my mindset you know which is medicine is not ah, a career It’s a skill right? I’m I’m here learning about medicine and I’m I’m destined to do something with it very differently to to practicing medicine.
Alejandro: Now in your case I mean you went at it right away I mean you started a company right there when when when when you were still in University. So what? what did you? do there.
Aengus Tran: Yeah, yeah, and you know when when when you are when you’re 1819 and and you just finish high school and in in Australia we call it high school. Um, you know I was done with studying at the time I must be honest. So I was it’s going to a lot of parties with friends and at the time you know we was making a bit of pocket money on the side being selling tickets to this event and I realized that you know what? why? Why don’t I automate all of this you know when when I was younger. Um I never like to do anything repetitive. I would rather spend an hour building a tool that obsolete the task. So I’d never need to do it again even though the tasks only take like five minutes so um, with couple friends in in university I think us we call college I I be a smartphone apps. That allow people to purchase tickets to events and parties and the unique thing about the app is that allow you to see who else has already purchased a ticket that’s verified by payment. So at the time people was clicking. You know I’m going to a party on Facebook but they weren’t really showing up so people. Wouldn’t really go so I figured that if if I can show people proof that other friends are are going they they would buy the ticket and and they would earn a commission from that so it was a fun experience was a nice technology. We build that in in a dom room with a couple friends. Um, but ah, you know and we ran that for about a year and a bit it taught me a whole lot about entrepreneurship and what it mean to start a business working inside of a team and also the the world of venture capital you know, got a lot of situation where it got turned down that. I’ve told it wasn’t a very good idea and um and and that that was very humbling experience as well. But ultimately the company. Um the the auto cofounder is still running it as far as I believe as far as I know and um and and they still going.
Alejandro: And whatever happened with whatever happened with the company.
Aengus Tran: But ultimately I realized that you know selling ticket to party was not why I I end up in Australia and why I get into medicine so I moved on and and and pursue auto opportunities. Well you know? So um, you know had had a bit of.
Alejandro: So what did you do next.
Aengus Tran: Had a bit of time after starting that business refocus my mind medicine need to pass need to pass the the medical school after all, it’s very tough course so kind of hunker down and study but at the same time during around this time there was a lot of breakthrough in ai machine learning so every day I would get online and I would see. Um, deepmind beating Lisa do and halfa go I would see ibm beating Ken Jenning in Jeopardy um and just going back to my childhood going I was working on computer science or was going to coding competition. And some of the thing I was building at the time was ai know very crude mental ai early days right? A little chess engine that I built that beat me I would build software that do speech recognitions but this is very early days right? and when I see this nis being studying ah medicine at the time. I was like wow like software didn’t do this five years ago something fundamental has happened for these prero to happen and and it was machine learning was really taking off. It was really new thing and for very none time I see that glimpse. Like this is the technology that you know humanity needed right? This is ah infinitely scalable technology that can scale inside right? scale intuitions and that’s what I was seeing as the gap in healthcare we didn’t have enough capacity of good people. Um, so I was fascinated. You know I went online look at udemy which is an online learning course I searched for Ai and machine learning and hit on the first link I can find it was on this Canada town $15 apparently for None ur only but apparently yesterday I checked it was still $15 ah was bit of a bit of a sc um, but yeah I just dive into it. You head in and and spend a summer I just learn you know re-energizing my passion on software engineering learned by machine learning and deep learning and eventually got quite good at it. Um, so that’s that’s kind of how I that’s what I dive into after my my startup in early days of Uni and you know eventually competing in a lot of online Ai competition like cackles was doing quite well you know was was always consistently in in the top of those leaderboard. Um, yeah, and and and that’s how I got into machine learning.
Alejandro: So then let’s talk about your your your next business. You know which is the ah your your your current baby and they definitely a rocket ship. so so what what happened how did you guys come about you know with Harris on Ai and and also building it with your brother.
Aengus Tran: A. Yeah, you know, um to to understand ah the founding of Harrison you know we we must talk about the ivf technology ivy because that really informed our business model and and how we come about what we did. Ah, so in the final year of medical school I was doing a pediatric rotation at the Sydney Children Hospital Hospital and one of the profess actually came and gave a talk about ivf and he put up on the screen this tumlaff video of human Embryos. So imagine you have smartphone you have the timemlaff functions. Except this timelap camera sit inside a embryo incubator for five days and there’s this very long five day long time lap film of an embryo dividing from one cell to 2 cell to 4 cell to 8 cells and at the end of that process some poor doctors or embryologists need to look at it and say. Is this embryo going to give the parent a baby is this going to survive and that’s a very hard task so during this time when I was very interested in machine learning and and deep learning. Um, you know I went up to the professor and said I think I can build a technology that fully automate this. And I think it’s going to do a lot better than what the doctors is doing today so he was a bit like you know a bit crazy a medical student was what’s you talking about? you know, but I went and and and talk to them in the lab really understand their work flow. Um, and and this’s coverers health which is one of largest ivf group here in Australia and next thing I know within a year we collaborated myself and verers to build a technology that can look at this timelap video and decide if the embryo is likely to survive or not. And couple of months after that we rolled that out into all of the clinics in Australia and today still going to select none of embryos a year and help parents get pregnant so within a year. Um I got a report back and it said that within that year I touched 2000 couple 2000 couple benefited from the technology and and that’s like a lightbob moment from here I was like ecstatic. You know this is exactly what I wanted to do when I started medicine something that completely changed the cost economic.
Aengus Tran: As well as the paradigm of what practicing medicine really looked like and that is really the early conceptions of Harrison excuse the pardon you know, not because great jo talking for ivf is is the combination of large data set. From big companies like vertus that are representative dataset clinical insight and the technology of Ai machine learning in combination you can build this make or device that scale clinical insight. Sorry I just do that last bit again. It’s the combinations of large representative data set clinical insight with machine learning and Ai you can build this great technology that really empower clinicians to do more. And that’s how we started Harrison so at the time you know I didn’t wasn’t very savvy in in business. So I poor my brother dimitry at the time I was working at Ramsi Healthcare as a head of innovation looking after a very big innovation program at Ramsey and together. We’ve we’ve started Harrison with the mission. To scare the global capacity of health care and the way that we know that we have achieved that in the next five years is if a None patient per day benefited from a combination of own technology that we built Harrison has a very unique modelt of that I love to tell you about it.
Alejandro: And how is it by the way. How is it by the way and we’ll talk about it in detail. But how is it by the way starting a business with your brother.
Aengus Tran: Well, you know, um it um is one of the best thing we’ve done as as ah as the as Brothers. Um, you know when there’s a lot of characteristic that you come to mind when you think about a co-founder of a business. You know, kind of absolute. Trust. Transparency and communication and willingness to spend a lot of time together and you know if you think about it doing it with your brothers is really take a lot of the Boxes. Don’t don’t get me wrong. You know we we are brought us we are siblings. So You know we. Ah, we fight sometime. But but as as brought us you know and and the and the focus has always been on that share Mission. So You know I see as a win. Yeah so to spend so much time with family doing impactful work. Um, and have that feeling of trust all along the way.
Alejandro: I love that now for Harrison what ended up being the business model because you guys have like different you have analisee you have Franklin I mean what ended up being the business model.
Aengus Tran: Yeah, so Harrison our modelt is to build ventures and the ventures build great technology that scale healthcare. So the way that that work is that each time we build a product or new ventures. There’s quite a lot of reusability. So the same ai system that look at chess x-ray there’s about None overlap in terms of the underlying infrastructure and technology to an Ai that looked at prostate biopsy. And therefore you know instead of building this product as a standalone. It’s better to build Harrison as a platform that have a set of I p and technology that will allow each of the ventures to build Ai as maker of I at speed and scale. So that’s one layer at Harrison. The none layout at Harrison is a suite of partners. So this is where Dimitri experience really comes in. We know that to build Ai at scale. You really need a lot of data but also great platform to test and try your technology. So therefore one of the thing that Harrison does is we form John Venture partnership with some of the world largest health provider so in so that include I met which is medical imaging company in Australia they are probably the world none or none largests company in radiology. In pathology we we partner with Sonic Healthcare which is you know one of the largest pathology service provider in the state. But also in Australia and Europe as well. So this kind of combination between Harrison Technology platform and at scale data and clinical insight from our partners allow. Each of these ventures to to lefrock the competition and and build product very rapidly in a scale.
Alejandro: And in terms of capitalizing. You know it’s a very interesting way of doing it because it’s not like you were raising money for like one entity and not one entity is just doing one single thing. It’s like you have like this umbrella and this umbrella is you know, like now you have like None different initiatives going on in parallel. So. How do you go about capitalizing.
Aengus Tran: Yeah, so um, at Harrison we we are venture back company and Harrison is backed by None group of investors. So the none group are international ventures investors so on our cap table are skip capital which is the family office of Scott Fakwa from alassian and Kim Jackson we also backed by horizon venture some ah one of the most impactful Ai investors in the world. They back deep mind and and zoom in ways and blackbid which is a large None of the largest australian venture capital firm on the other side. We also back. By our clinical partners. So a clinical partner also invests in Harrison Coincide with forming this entity in this partnership so we have I met and sonic also on our cap table and the the goal is for Harrison to like you said fund the developments and. Growth of each of the venture. But also we have co-investment from from our clinical partners as well to make that successful. We. We see this as a very efficient model because at Harrison we can develop many of the share technology share knowledge and know how. As well as a set of share services to support these ventures therefore you know our ventures can operate like an at scale business even on the early days when we first launch it and None of the thing I like to highlight on on the on on the way we’ve done this and the capitalizations. Strategy as well as the the benefit of this is that it’s important to remember there’s no such thing as Mvp in medicine you know as entrepreneur you always like to say you know keep it lead build a minimum get it out underrate and then we’ll see I mean that that’s been a mantra for entrepreneur all across the world. Last decade or so but you know I would like to ask like how how was anyone like ah an mvp penicillin on an Mvp robotic surgery. No one wants that in medicine. It’s it’s a high risk. Ah, environment and and you need a mouth critical scale and functionality and and clinical evidence for that to work and that means is that every medical device company Ai otherwise need to raise at least $100,000,000 for it to work to invest into making it happen. And we see you know Ai is no different It’s not an exception to that. So our structure and our platform is enable us to very efficiently accelerate our venture to scale rather than building very narrow and minimal product which is what we’ve been seeing so far.
Alejandro: And in terms of going out to investors I Mean how how is the pitch because I mean obviously the pitch of just one single thing is is easy right? or easier is never easy. But at least it’s easier like when you have all these different things going around at the same time I mean it’s It’s a little bit more complex. You know to really.
Aengus Tran: Um, yeah, yeah, yeah. Students.
Alejandro: Show them so that you know they don’t see that you’re all over the place so that they see that the team is focused on execution and all of that stuff. So how do you? avoid you know, having investors think that you guys are too distracted or spread to thin.
Aengus Tran: Yeah I mean in terms of the the trajectory and timeline in in 2020 we started anally and we’ve been executing on that for close to None ars and the the goal is to really demonstrate fraction and clarity in execution. Showing the benefit of the Harrison platform in Annalyse as the first milestone and so far that has resonated really well with the investors all across the world because Annalyse now is a category leader in a giant market which is ai in radiology in a couple of years we we’ve been able to build None findings algorithm. When other competition have only done a few and only December Twenty Twenty one last year we announced a new partnership in pathology so it’s been ah, a sequential execution for Harrison and the pathology business has really been an addition to the Harrison story. Rad and something that we’ve we’ve started from day one. So that’s how we’ve been telling that story at Harrison which is great execution and traction in aallyse building up the Harrison platform and technology which allow us to scale the next venture. In the next coming few years. We plan to spin up another of venturengs in the none and the fourth vertical. But there’s gonna be milestone along the way that we’ll be able to show and I think that it’s only not your usual startup right? with None product one set of value proposition. But we believe that. Yeah, it just as functional as it need to be and no more so. It’s no more complicated than it really needed to be um and we see that the ventures investors across the world and the clinical partners like sonic and I met resonate really well with this story. And that’s why you know we’re being able to to grow so quickly so far.
Alejandro: Now as you’re talking about vision here. Imagine you go to sleep tonight and you wake up in a world where the future or the vision of of Harris one is fully realized what does that world look like.
Aengus Tran: Um, if. You know I always dream about this which is when let’s just say a um, a man in in of woman in Vietnam go and have a chess x-ray done one of our ventures anallys we’ll have a technology to help. Catch that lung nodules lung cancer on that chest x-ray that put maybe the radilogologist would have miss when they go and get that lung cancer biopsy perhaps a ai in the Franklin Ventures would help the pathologist in diagnosing staging. And managing that lung cancer under a microscope and eventually when they go up and and get radiation oncology the the treatment another ai in our none ventures in that space will help with the treatment of that as well. So I’d really see ai. Changing the face of medicine really scaling the capacity of human doctors and allow us to do more with with the resource that we do have so if if that’s the case then and I felt as a life. Well live. For me and and um, a lot of other team members in Harrison.
Alejandro: So in terms of a scope and size for the people that are listening to really understand how big you know you guys are you’ve raised it now from investors about None is that right.
Aengus Tran: Um, so totalto capital raised to date in in Harrison if you’re talking about australian australian dollars which is where we live here so when I would get the correct number so that we can quote that.
Alejandro: and and I guess and I guess that they they you know? so so 3 things here you know like do or or 2 things to really understand the the scope and size so one I think would be great to understand what’s the total amount raised you know with the right type of conversion $2 because over the they they australian.
Aengus Tran: Ah, can say that again.
Alejandro: You know a currency and then the other thing I think would be great. You know anything that you could share with the listeners in terms of maybe number of employees or anything else that you feel you know, comfortable sharing for.
Aengus Tran: If I did go.
Aengus Tran: Yeah, so for sure so Harrison so far. We’ve raised none and 10 us none to date and that across the to round with it and like I shared that’s a mix between the ventures investors and our clinical partner. Um, Harrison across the group so far if you count Harrison Annaly and Franklin is None of None employees now and we’re spread across Australia but also starting to have present in the Uk the us as well. So and that’s where. Ah, commercial team is based but most of our development happens in Australia um, where what are we looking to do with this capital. So as you know in December that was our series b one of the largest 0 b done in in in Australia was the sizeable round. With the returning of all of our ventures capital as well as welcoming sonic onto our cap table the vision there is number None to fund franklin which is the new business and to accelerate the pathology Ai industry. But number 2 is to allow Analys to scale into even more product getting reclary approval and go to market scaling our revenue aggressively so in in in in the next few years you know what you would see in terms of the mileusestone for Harrison. Ah, with this capital is recy clearance of some of our flagship product and radiology for chess x-ray and cd brainin we already get clearance here for the rest of the world in Australia and Europe for hundreds of clinical indication per product but we are attacking the us market with us fda clearance we got our http://nonefda clearance a couple of months ago but we’re looking to scale that the none mileusestone is going to be about the pathology. Um, we’re aiming to release the None product in about eighteen months and and that is to demonstrate the scalability of the Harrison platform. And that reusability and how efficient we can use that capital to to build a none of ventures from a Harrison perspective of you you zoom out. We aim to also spin up a none vertical in the coming years. We still figuring out what that vertical would be. Ah, but once again, it will be highly impactful and reuse a lot of the share learning at the Harrison level.
Alejandro: So now imagine I put you ands into um into a time machine and I bring you back in time and I bring you back to that point where you were still in university I maybe thinking about launching something of your own I imagine you had the opportunity of of having that younger self and let’s say for a None of that younger self was listening.
Aengus Tran: Um, Wow Yes, and.
Alejandro: Because we know that when we’re young, we don’t listen right? But let’s say that you were listening and and you were you had the opportunity of really sharing one piece of advice before launching a company. What would that be and why given what you know now.
Aengus Tran: Yeah I think that if I I’m able to talk to myself when I was in university and we just started business I would say to my younger self that it’s all about people. Um the younger angus who is a ah builder as I share I like to make things. And in the early days you know as um as founders of a deep tech business. A lot of what you do is is build things make things. But as we scale now beyond the friends and family size to tribe size and now. Hundreds of people all across the world in the Harrison group. Um I’m every day very impressed with the level of skill and education that our teams is bringing to a table so I more and more realized that is this about creating the right environment for some of the. Smartest people I know to do their live best work at Harrison so that that would be the None piece of advice I would give which is you know focusing on building an incredible team make sure that they have the right environment to succeed and that’s what going to take us beyond you know the proof of concept. Um, and into an international market.
Alejandro: The amazing so angers for the people that are listening. What is the best way for them to reach out and say hi.
Aengus Tran: Please contact me in the Harrison website Harrison not Ai. There’s ah, there’s a page to about to reach out to us and would love to connect and learn about interest in Healthcare Ai
Alejandro: Amazing. Well angos thank you? So so much for being on the deal maker show today. It has been an honor to have you with us.
Aengus Tran: Thank you for having me appreciate it.
* * *
If you like the show, make sure that you hit that subscribe button. If you can leave a review as well, that would be fantastic. And if you got any value either from this episode or from the show itself, share it with a friend. Perhaps they will also appreciate it. Also, remember, if you need any help, whether it is with your fundraising efforts or with selling your business, you can reach me at [email protected]